Macron not supporting Israel???
What? There would be no "france" if not for allies and people coming to help that did not have a dog in the fight. Twice....

Israel is led by courageous men and women. You are spineless along with Joe and Kamala.

Israel did not start any of the conflicts. Those that are attacking Israel are EVIL and hell bent on exterminating the nation of Israel.

Israel is admired. Israel takes on any attacker with ferocity. The Iranians have never won a war much less exhibited any level of courage. They are great at attacking women and anyone that is unarmed.

I hope the hostages get rescued and that Israel extracts retribution from Iran, Hezbollah and any other supporter of hate and terrorism.

France will lose its influence in Lebanon if Israel defeats Hezbollah and forces change.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Macron not supporting Israel???
What? There would be no "france" if not for allies and people coming to help that did not have a dog in the fight. Twice....

Israel is led by courageous men and women. You are spineless along with Joe and Kamala.

Israel did not start any of the conflicts. Those that are attacking Israel are EVIL and hell bent on exterminating the nation of Israel.

Israel is admired. Israel takes on any attacker with ferocity. The Iranians have never won a war much less exhibited any level of courage. They are great at attacking women and anyone that is unarmed.

I hope the hostages get rescued and that Israel extracts retribution from Iran, Hezbollah and any other supporter of hate and terrorism.

Israel has a right to exist without constant attacks and terrorism and in that regard I totally agree with your last para.

...but if you think Israel is a paragon of virtue and innocent of any wrong doing you need to go back to history 101. No one is whiter than white in this mess...

Charlie Hebdo comes to mind. When a antisemitic culture immigrates and doesn’t assimilate, what the heck do you expect.

You give a pass on the USS Liberty? Plenty of dirt to go around.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

Israel has a right to exist without constant attacks and terrorism and in that regard I totally agree with your last para.

...but if you think Israel is a paragon of virtue and innocent of any wrong doing you need to go back to history 101. No one is whiter than white in this mess...

I'm sure we agree, the only one with angels sitting on their shoulders is Don Trump.

My discussions with you regarding Islamic Terrorism and Israel certainly don't need repeating, but ask yourself,where has going soft on the terrorists gotten us?

Compromising with the Taliban got us what? Our pier to deliver aid to Gaza a few months ago got us what? I read today that Hamas fired rockets at Israel from Gaza.

Iran has been burning America in effigy for 50 years now. And is now launching rocket attacks at Israel.

My favorite again; recently our military base in Syria, (a Russian ally,) was attacked by Iranian forces operating in Iraq, ( an enemy of Iran,) WTF?!?!?!

I remain skeptical about Netanyhu and Israel being very wrong here.

Israel is no paragon of virtue, but they do kind of look that way when you compare them to their neighbors.

Israel has committed numerous wrongs, agreed... Just not ones that quite compare recently to the nations they dispossessed. I think Jordan and Egypt are turning the corner slowly, but is that because they lost so much territory and blood in the fighting that they realized fighting Islam's holy war cost them a lot more than the folks egging them on?

Avery forthright summary of the situation that puts Israels actions in perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4m_EL9Dj2U

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

Israel has a right to exist without constant attacks and terrorism and in that regard I totally agree with your last para.

...but if you think Israel is a paragon of virtue and innocent of any wrong doing you need to go back to history 101. No one is whiter than white in this mess...

I'm sure we agree, the only one with angels sitting on their shoulders is Don Trump.

My discussions with you regarding Islamic Terrorism and Israel certainly don't need repeating, but ask yourself,where has going soft on the terrorists gotten us?

Compromising with the Taliban got us what? Our pier to deliver aid to Gaza a few months ago got us what? I read today that Hamas fired rockets at Israel from Gaza.

Iran has been burning America in effigy for 50 years now. And is now launching rocket attacks at Israel.

My favorite again; recently our military base in Syria, (a Russian ally,) was attacked by Iranian forces operating in Iraq, ( an enemy of Iran,) WTF?!?!?!

I remain skeptical about Netanyhu and Israel being very wrong here.

Scott, I’ve said it numerous times before but I will say it again because you still seem to think I’m in favour of making terrorist a cup of tea and asking them nicely to stop being naughty, I have no problem at all with a bullet through the head for any terrorist. I hope that is finally clear?

Read what I posted above, carefully. Israel has done things which any normal person would find reprehensible. You may not know about them, in which case I urge you to do some reading on the subject.

You can start with Shatila and Sabra. Several thousand civilians killed by Lebanese militias. TheIDF didn’t pull the trigger but they did block all the exits and fire star shells so the militias could more efficiently slaughter the civilians.

No one forgets over there, they all use any incident as an excuse or justification for the next one. No one side is innocent of any wrongdoing.

It’s nieve to think one side is blameless and the other is the bad guy.

I don’t care one iota what happens to anyone in Hezbolla, but I don’t see a difference between the value of an israeli child and a Palestinian or Lebanese one.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Macron not supporting Israel???
What? There would be no "france" if not for allies and people coming to help that did not have a dog in the fight. Twice....

Israel is led by courageous men and women. You are spineless along with Joe and Kamala.

Israel did not start any of the conflicts. Those that are attacking Israel are EVIL and hell bent on exterminating the nation of Israel.

Israel is admired. Israel takes on any attacker with ferocity. The Iranians have never won a war much less exhibited any level of courage. They are great at attacking women and anyone that is unarmed.

I hope the hostages get rescued and that Israel extracts retribution from Iran, Hezbollah and any other supporter of hate and terrorism.

France being France — Pathetic.

Since when do we dictate who or what France supports or not? It's their business. If the French think Macron is wrong, I guess they will vote him out.

The Jews and the Palestinians have been going at it since millenia. They are never going to stop. Never. There is no solution to it that the current protagonists are willing to accept. Maybe that changes in the future but, probably not. Macron's decision to stop selling the Israeli's arms means nothing. Shit, we could stop, Iran could stop, etc etc etc and they would just start throwing rocks at each other.

I say let them have at it. We should stay as far away from it as we can.

The problem from my perspective is that the US taxpayer is on the hook for bill of both defending Israel and for the "rebuilding" in the aftermath of these wars.

Sure, let them go ahead and continue to kill each other, I would prefer that they do it on their dime though.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
The problem from my perspective is that the US taxpayer is on the hook for bill of both defending Israel and for the "rebuilding" in the aftermath of these wars.

Sure, let them go ahead and continue to kill each other, I would prefer that they do it on their dime though.

We do it because it gives us a strategic presence and foothold in the region. Lots of good intelligence too. It also puts us in the position of having a proxy fighting our battles for us against folks who want to do us harm. Of course, the reason they want to do us harm is because we support Israel but....that's another topic.

I shake my head over that too, Steve.

I remember the last time folks here were having a go at the French, it was endless surrender jokes, white flag jokes, coward jokes … all because they they thought that gulf war 2 was wrong.

Then we had freedom fries and all that crap.

I wish the archive for this place wasn’t flushed, it would be interesting to do a search to find all the spineless comments aimed at our French contributor.

Who was correct at the end of the day on that one?

I haven’t seen Macrons comments so don’t know what he said that has caused this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:


I don’t see a difference between the value of an israeli child and a Palestinian or Lebanese one.

I guess the difference I see is that you and I would put the value of any of the children you mentioned as priceless. On the other hand the Palestinians and Lebanese see them all as worthless.

Id adjust that slightly. Hamas etc values the death of a child killed by an israeli strike quite highly.

quote:

We should stay as far away from it as we can.

Far away hell…these people are our enemies as well. The Israelis are our allies.

Some people will never learn.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:


I don’t see a difference between the value of an israeli child and a Palestinian or Lebanese one.

I guess the difference I see is that you and I would put the value of any of the children you mentioned as priceless. On the other hand the Palestinians and Lebanese see them all as worthless.

Lumping all Palestinians and Lebanese with Hamas or Hezbollah is as wrong, and as inaccurate, as saying all Americans are MAGAts.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

We should stay as far away from it as we can.

Far away hell…these people are our enemies as well. The Israelis are our allies.

Some people will never learn.

They're our enemies because Israel is our ally.

Some people will never learn.

It is an intractable situation. I'm fine with selling Israel as many bombs, etc as they need. But, that solves nothing.

As I've stated multiple times before, all that Israel is doing right now is creating more recruits for Hamas, Hezbollah or some other future terrorist/militia organization. The idea that continuing the war is going to result in the elimination of those organizations or something similar that will pop up doesn't play out historically. 43,000 dead Palestinians just guarantees this thing will continue forever.

It's on a loop.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

We should stay as far away from it as we can.

Far away hell…these people are our enemies as well. The Israelis are our allies.

Some people will never learn.

They're our enemies because Israel is our ally.

Some people will never learn.

It is an intractable situation. I'm fine with selling Israel as many bombs, etc as they need. But, that solves nothing.

Lesson still not learned. They (Iran along with some other Muslim factions) are our enemies because they hate us. Have since the 1970s and will into the foreseeable.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

We should stay as far away from it as we can.

Far away hell…these people are our enemies as well. The Israelis are our allies.

Some people will never learn.

They're our enemies because Israel is our ally.

Some people will never learn.

It is an intractable situation. I'm fine with selling Israel as many bombs, etc as they need. But, that solves nothing.

Lesson still not learned. They (Iran along with some other Muslim factions) are our enemies because they hate us. Have since the 1970s and will into the foreseeable.

Why do you think they hate us, Lane? I mean, Iran is sort of a separate issue but we can talk about that too....as soon as you read a little history and start making statements based on facts rather than bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

We should stay as far away from it as we can.

Far away hell…these people are our enemies as well. The Israelis are our allies.

Some people will never learn.

They're our enemies because Israel is our ally.

Some people will never learn.

It is an intractable situation. I'm fine with selling Israel as many bombs, etc as they need. But, that solves nothing.

Lesson still not learned. They (Iran along with some other Muslim factions) are our enemies because they hate us. Have since the 1970s and will into the foreseeable.

Why do you think they hate us, Lane? I mean, Iran is sort of a separate issue but we can talk about that too....as soon as you read a little history and start making statements based on facts rather than bullshit.

They hate us for many reasons but it boils to the fact that we clash with their religion.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

We should stay as far away from it as we can.

Far away hell…these people are our enemies as well. The Israelis are our allies.

Some people will never learn.

They're our enemies because Israel is our ally.

Some people will never learn.

It is an intractable situation. I'm fine with selling Israel as many bombs, etc as they need. But, that solves nothing.

Lesson still not learned. They (Iran along with some other Muslim factions) are our enemies because they hate us. Have since the 1970s and will into the foreseeable.

Why do you think they hate us, Lane? I mean, Iran is sort of a separate issue but we can talk about that too....as soon as you read a little history and start making statements based on facts rather than bullshit.

They hate us for many reasons but it boils to the fact that we clash with their religion.

Nah, they hate us because we support Israel. It's just that simple. The Iranians have other ostensible reasons re the Shah and all that but the bottom line is Israel.

The problem is that Netanyahu has basically told us to fuck off in terms of our position on a resolution of the current troubles. Which is bullshit...even assuming Netanyahu has the support of the majority of the Israeli people...That country exists because of us. We ought to have some stroke in terms of a potential resolution of the current conflict. The current Israeli position of annihilation of the Palestinian opposition isn't realistic. I get the reasons for the position. But, it's just not realistic. And, as noted, Israel is just creating a new generation of Hamas and Hezbollah fighters by killing 42,000 Palestinians.

Hence.....the intractability of the issue. We should stay as far away from it as we can. There is no viable solution anywhere on the horizon.

Let them fight it out.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:


I don’t see a difference between the value of an israeli child and a Palestinian or Lebanese one.

I guess the difference I see is that you and I would put the value of any of the children you mentioned as priceless. On the other hand the Palestinians and Lebanese see them all as worthless.

Lumping all Palestinians and Lebanese with Hamas or Hezbollah is as wrong, and as inaccurate, as saying all Americans are MAGAts.

Two things: first, there's a reason Hamas and Hezbollah are so well embedded with the civilian population with no dissention. There's a reason kindergartners share their classroom with rocket propelled grenade bins. If I remember correctly you and I did the math recently and we found that 20% of the residents of Gaza were claimed to be Hamas. If that's any kind of accurate the 80% of Gaza that ain't Hamas could easily throw them out. Apparently not the case.
Two, they do say,"all Americans". They do lump us all together. We're all Infidels to them and so are fair game. Red, yellow, black and white, young, old, man woman or child, we're all to be put to the sword. They could have targeted military positions on 9/11 or October 7th. They could have aimed for an aircraft carrier or an Air Force base, they didn't. They aimed for women and children. To them we all deserve to die.

That’s easy to say, from a distance, less easy to do if it’s your kids who will end up with no parent. You can disagree with * insert name of terrorist group here * all you want but if they have the RPG’s and AK’s it’s only going to end one way.

Go back a few years in NI and anyone working against the paramilitaries lost both kneecaps at best and was shot in front of their family at worst.

Support for Hamas is growing in both the WB and Gaza. As has been mentioned above this war is the best recruiting tool Hamas could wish for.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

We should stay as far away from it as we can.

Far away hell…these people are our enemies as well. The Israelis are our allies.

Some people will never learn.

They're our enemies because Israel is our ally.

Some people will never learn.

It is an intractable situation. I'm fine with selling Israel as many bombs, etc as they need. But, that solves nothing.

As I've stated multiple times before, all that Israel is doing right now is creating more recruits for Hamas, Hezbollah or some other future terrorist/militia organization. The idea that continuing the war is going to result in the elimination of those organizations or something similar that will pop up doesn't play out historically. 43,000 dead Palestinians just guarantees this thing will continue forever.

It's on a loop.

Israel is our enemy because we are.....well....us lil mikey, we are a Christian nation..... We are not an autocracy of Islamic people.... When you lefties realize that they want us dead because we are not them, we might have a chance. Kinda like gays for Palestine.....

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

We should stay as far away from it as we can.

Far away hell…these people are our enemies as well. The Israelis are our allies.

Some people will never learn.

They're our enemies because Israel is our ally.

Some people will never learn.

It is an intractable situation. I'm fine with selling Israel as many bombs, etc as they need. But, that solves nothing.

Lesson still not learned. They (Iran along with some other Muslim factions) are our enemies because they hate us. Have since the 1970s and will into the foreseeable.

Why do you think they hate us, Lane? I mean, Iran is sort of a separate issue but we can talk about that too....as soon as you read a little history and start making statements based on facts rather than bullshit.

They hate us for many reasons but it boils to the fact that we clash with their religion.

Nah, they hate us because we support Israel. It's just that simple. The Iranians have other ostensible reasons re the Shah and all that but the bottom line is Israel.

The problem is that Netanyahu has basically told us to fuck off in terms of our position on a resolution of the current troubles. Which is bullshit...even assuming Netanyahu has the support of the majority of the Israeli people...That country exists because of us. We ought to have some stroke in terms of a potential resolution of the current conflict. The current Israeli position of annihilation of the Palestinian opposition isn't realistic. I get the reasons for the position. But, it's just not realistic. And, as noted, Israel is just creating a new generation of Hamas and Hezbollah fighters by killing 42,000 Palestinians.

Hence.....the intractability of the issue. We should stay as far away from it as we can. There is no viable solution anywhere on the horizon.

Let them fight it out.

So mikey? Of we quit supporting Israel it would all,be unicorns and rainbows with iran?

You are a moron!

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:


I don’t see a difference between the value of an israeli child and a Palestinian or Lebanese one.

I guess the difference I see is that you and I would put the value of any of the children you mentioned as priceless. On the other hand the Palestinians and Lebanese see them all as worthless.

Lumping all Palestinians and Lebanese with Hamas or Hezbollah is as wrong, and as inaccurate, as saying all Americans are MAGAts.

Two things: first, there's a reason Hamas and Hezbollah are so well embedded with the civilian population with no dissention. There's a reason kindergartners share their classroom with rocket propelled grenade bins. If I remember correctly you and I did the math recently and we found that 20% of the residents of Gaza were claimed to be Hamas. If that's any kind of accurate the 80% of Gaza that ain't Hamas could easily throw them out. Apparently not the case.
Two, they do say,"all Americans". They do lump us all together. We're all Infidels to them and so are fair game. Red, yellow, black and white, young, old, man woman or child, we're all to be put to the sword. They could have targeted military positions on 9/11 or October 7th. They could have aimed for an aircraft carrier or an Air Force base, they didn't. They aimed for women and children. To them we all deserve to die.

Whoops!

While they may hate the fact that we support Israel…the truth is that they hate us for who we are.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

We should stay as far away from it as we can.

Far away hell…these people are our enemies as well. The Israelis are our allies.

Some people will never learn.

They're our enemies because Israel is our ally.

Some people will never learn.

It is an intractable situation. I'm fine with selling Israel as many bombs, etc as they need. But, that solves nothing.

As I've stated multiple times before, all that Israel is doing right now is creating more recruits for Hamas, Hezbollah or some other future terrorist/militia organization. The idea that continuing the war is going to result in the elimination of those organizations or something similar that will pop up doesn't play out historically. 43,000 dead Palestinians just guarantees this thing will continue forever.

It's on a loop.

Israel is our enemy because we are.....well....us lil mikey, we are a Christian nation..... We are not an autocracy of Islamic people.... When you lefties realize that they want us dead because we are not them, we might have a chance. Kinda like gays for Palestine.....

Oh, look....Dumb Jim is trying to join the debate.