funny thing -- if you flip texas from east to west, the new west (was east) is in the pacific

Have we all forgotten how Trump withheld an aid package to Ukraine while demanding that Zelenskyy lie about Biden for him?

Wasn’t there an impeachment proceeding related to that?

Trump Krasnov is just flashing his grudge, petulant prick that he is.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Nukes are on subs -- we MIGHT have a chance with ICMBs, but a shot from 2 miles off the coast is going to hit -- and bombers run silent run deep --

I don't care about a backfire bomber being intercepted off alaska -- it's a prop-job, ffs - there is nothing to compare to our b2 - but i am worried about boomers and the 2-5 mile shot, that won't even show up on radar -

https://nuclearforces.org/wp-c...TART-2012-Russia.png

those are the ground ones ... there are not only on subs ...

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
Have we all forgotten how Trump withheld an aid package to Ukraine while demanding that Zelenskyy lie about Biden for him?

Wasn’t there an impeachment proceeding related to that?

Trump Krasnov is just flashing his grudge, petulant prick that he is.

except he DID NOT withhold the aid package -- it was delivered on time and fully -- show me that ONE CENT missed the deadline --

was it questioned? ever buy a car? did you not pause for a second before signing on the dotted line?

tired lies -- oh, and dismissed when the shampeachment when to trail ..

oh, i know, you'll want to argue about it -- do i really need to dig up the clip of biden BRAGGing about withholding budgeting as VEEP?

are you ready to face OBJECTIVE truth?

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Nukes are on subs -- we MIGHT have a chance with ICMBs, but a shot from 2 miles off the coast is going to hit -- and bombers run silent run deep --

I don't care about a backfire bomber being intercepted off alaska -- it's a prop-job, ffs - there is nothing to compare to our b2 - but i am worried about boomers and the 2-5 mile shot, that won't even show up on radar -

https://nuclearforces.org/wp-c...TART-2012-Russia.png

those are the ground ones ... there are not only on subs ...

link didn't work

subs have both cruise missiles (this will be terrible) and ICBMs .. the cruise missils could hit new york, boston, dc, all of fla, all of texas, and all of the left coast, in minutes - no preventative response possible - well, MAYBE in texas, as deep water is a LONG way from shore, but that's sorting nits

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Mike,
just to be clear, Obama said, (found the quote) "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years."

China is out biggest and worst enemy - russia is a bunch of busted field equipment, conscripts, and the worst threat is their nukes -- of which china has better ...

my fear in russia, especially before the wagner dude got shot out of the sky, was a push to moscow, and a nuclear exchange --

i have near zero fear of russia rolling over the eastern front into Europe ..

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Mike,
just to be clear, Obama said, (found the quote) "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years."

China is out biggest and worst enemy - russia is a bunch of busted field equipment, conscripts, and the worst threat is their nukes -- of which china has better ...

my fear in russia, especially before the wagner dude got shot out of the sky, was a push to moscow, and a nuclear exchange --

i have near zero fear of russia rolling over the eastern front into Europe ..

Anything to provide cover for the incredibly poor behavior of the orange turd.

Russia is a threat and will continue to be so, in Eastern Europe, in the ME, in Africa and in Asia.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has had their head buried in the sand for decades.

Russia has killed tens of thousands of civilians in Ukraine, seized some the best agricultural lands and now control the fertilizer markets as well. Russia is more than happy to use those resources as weapons.

Saying that Russia is only a threat due to their nuclear arsenal is just ignorant.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Mike,
just to be clear, Obama said, (found the quote) "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years."

China is out biggest and worst enemy - russia is a bunch of busted field equipment, conscripts, and the worst threat is their nukes -- of which china has better ...

my fear in russia, especially before the wagner dude got shot out of the sky, was a push to moscow, and a nuclear exchange --

i have near zero fear of russia rolling over the eastern front into Europe ..

Anything to provide cover for the incredibly poor behavior of the orange turd.

Russia is a threat and will continue to be so, in Eastern Europe, in the ME, in Africa and in Asia.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has had their head buried in the sand for decades.

Russia has killed tens of thousands of civilians in Ukraine, seized some the best agricultural lands and now control the fertilizer markets as well. Russia is more than happy to use those resources as weapons.

Saying that Russia is only a threat due to their nuclear arsenal is just ignorant.

Ignorant is what he does best.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Mike,
just to be clear, Obama said, (found the quote) "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years."

China is out biggest and worst enemy - russia is a bunch of busted field equipment, conscripts, and the worst threat is their nukes -- of which china has better ...

my fear in russia, especially before the wagner dude got shot out of the sky, was a push to moscow, and a nuclear exchange --

i have near zero fear of russia rolling over the eastern front into Europe ..

Anything to provide cover for the incredibly poor behavior of the orange turd.

Russia is a threat and will continue to be so, in Eastern Europe, in the ME, in Africa and in Asia.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has had their head buried in the sand for decades.

Russia has killed tens of thousands of civilians in Ukraine, seized some the best agricultural lands and now control the fertilizer markets as well. Russia is more than happy to use those resources as weapons.

Saying that Russia is only a threat due to their nuclear arsenal is just ignorant.

russia is a threat for your country as well and not only for the nuclear component part ...

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Mike,
just to be clear, Obama said, (found the quote) "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years."

China is out biggest and worst enemy - russia is a bunch of busted field equipment, conscripts, and the worst threat is their nukes -- of which china has better ...

my fear in russia, especially before the wagner dude got shot out of the sky, was a push to moscow, and a nuclear exchange --

i have near zero fear of russia rolling over the eastern front into Europe ..

Anything to provide cover for the incredibly poor behavior of the orange turd.

Russia is a threat and will continue to be so, in Eastern Europe, in the ME, in Africa and in Asia.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has had their head buried in the sand for decades.

Russia has killed tens of thousands of civilians in Ukraine, seized some the best agricultural lands and now control the fertilizer markets as well. Russia is more than happy to use those resources as weapons.

Saying that Russia is only a threat due to their nuclear arsenal is just ignorant.

Ignorant is what he does best.

WOW, what a compliment from a past and rabid master of ignorance!!

Steve,
Did i say russia was NOT a threat? of course not, but you made it up - i said their conventional forces is kind of a joke, after losing nearly 1m soldiers, they couldn't roll over Ukraine -- this isn't debatable ..

Seriously, man, you need to read what *I* write, not what you make-up -- as even fifi states that "way out-dated" equipment is CRUSHING russian troops ...

but, hey, today is go fly drones with my kids and grandkids day -- which is always amusing --

Arguing with the obtuse gets old.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Mike,
just to be clear, Obama said, (found the quote) "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years."

China is out biggest and worst enemy - russia is a bunch of busted field equipment, conscripts, and the worst threat is their nukes -- of which china has better ...

my fear in russia, especially before the wagner dude got shot out of the sky, was a push to moscow, and a nuclear exchange --

i have near zero fear of russia rolling over the eastern front into Europe ..

Anything to provide cover for the incredibly poor behavior of the orange turd.

Russia is a threat and will continue to be so, in Eastern Europe, in the ME, in Africa and in Asia.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has had their head buried in the sand for decades.

Russia has killed tens of thousands of civilians in Ukraine, seized some the best agricultural lands and now control the fertilizer markets as well. Russia is more than happy to use those resources as weapons.

Saying that Russia is only a threat due to their nuclear arsenal is just ignorant.

Ignorant is what he does best.

WOW, what a compliment from a past and rabid master of ignorance!!

Steve,
Did i say russia was NOT a threat? of course not, but you made it up - i said their conventional forces is kind of a joke, after losing nearly 1m soldiers, they couldn't roll over Ukraine -- this isn't debatable ..

Seriously, man, you need to read what *I* write, not what you make-up -- as even fifi states that "way out-dated" equipment is CRUSHING russian troops ...

but, hey, today is go fly drones with my kids and grandkids day -- which is always amusing --

Oh Honey, I hate to see you struggle so with reading comprehension.


I never said that you said Russia is not a threat, what I said was "Saying that Russia is only a threat due to their nuclear arsenal is just ignorant.", which is another way of saying that Russia remains a threat in ways besides their nukes. They have just killed 10's of thousands with conventional weapons and have committed assignations on the soil of our allies. Russia remains a threat in many ways, it is not just the nukes.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Arguing with the obtuse gets old.

True, but I tolerate you anyway

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Arguing with the obtuse gets old.

True, but I tolerate you anyway

You are correct. The only tool the obtuse have is to be tolerant.

No thinking involved with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Mike,
just to be clear, Obama said, (found the quote) "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years."

China is out biggest and worst enemy - russia is a bunch of busted field equipment, conscripts, and the worst threat is their nukes -- of which china has better ...

my fear in russia, especially before the wagner dude got shot out of the sky, was a push to moscow, and a nuclear exchange --

i have near zero fear of russia rolling over the eastern front into Europe ..

Anything to provide cover for the incredibly poor behavior of the orange turd.

Russia is a threat and will continue to be so, in Eastern Europe, in the ME, in Africa and in Asia.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has had their head buried in the sand for decades.

Russia has killed tens of thousands of civilians in Ukraine, seized some the best agricultural lands and now control the fertilizer markets as well. Russia is more than happy to use those resources as weapons.

Saying that Russia is only a threat due to their nuclear arsenal is just ignorant.

Ignorant is what he does best.

WOW, what a compliment from a past and rabid master of ignorance!!

Steve,
Did i say russia was NOT a threat? of course not, but you made it up - i said their conventional forces is kind of a joke, after losing nearly 1m soldiers, they couldn't roll over Ukraine -- this isn't debatable ..

Seriously, man, you need to read what *I* write, not what you make-up -- as even fifi states that "way out-dated" equipment is CRUSHING russian troops ...

but, hey, today is go fly drones with my kids and grandkids day -- which is always amusing --

Oh Honey, I hate to see you struggle so with reading comprehension.


I never said that you said Russia is not a threat, what I said was "Saying that Russia is only a threat due to their nuclear arsenal is just ignorant.", which is another way of saying that Russia remains a threat in ways besides their nukes. They have just killed 10's of thousands with conventional weapons and have committed assignations on the soil of our allies. Russia remains a threat in many ways, it is not just the nukes.

Hey, durochka, russia can't drive down the @#$@# highway and not have the convoy break down FOR WEEKS to go a couple hundred miles - they can't roll thought Ukraine, much less through germany -- i get it, you don't like facts, but the facts are RIGHT THERE --

Their ships? they've lost the same sub TWICE, and what, 30 ships sunk by a country without a navy, being sunk by homemade drones - the ships make better reefs than platforms

Their planes? admittedly some of their birds can go fast -- and some can turn ... nothing with a jet engine can do both


if YOU are nervous about their conventional forces? from Colorado?

hmm, i am taking it history and logic weren't part of you AA

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Mike,
just to be clear, Obama said, (found the quote) "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years."

China is out biggest and worst enemy - russia is a bunch of busted field equipment, conscripts, and the worst threat is their nukes -- of which china has better ...

my fear in russia, especially before the wagner dude got shot out of the sky, was a push to moscow, and a nuclear exchange --

i have near zero fear of russia rolling over the eastern front into Europe ..

Anything to provide cover for the incredibly poor behavior of the orange turd.

Russia is a threat and will continue to be so, in Eastern Europe, in the ME, in Africa and in Asia.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has had their head buried in the sand for decades.

Russia has killed tens of thousands of civilians in Ukraine, seized some the best agricultural lands and now control the fertilizer markets as well. Russia is more than happy to use those resources as weapons.

Saying that Russia is only a threat due to their nuclear arsenal is just ignorant.

Ignorant is what he does best.

WOW, what a compliment from a past and rabid master of ignorance!!

Steve,
Did i say russia was NOT a threat? of course not, but you made it up - i said their conventional forces is kind of a joke, after losing nearly 1m soldiers, they couldn't roll over Ukraine -- this isn't debatable ..

Seriously, man, you need to read what *I* write, not what you make-up -- as even fifi states that "way out-dated" equipment is CRUSHING russian troops ...

but, hey, today is go fly drones with my kids and grandkids day -- which is always amusing --

Oh Honey, I hate to see you struggle so with reading comprehension.


I never said that you said Russia is not a threat, what I said was "Saying that Russia is only a threat due to their nuclear arsenal is just ignorant.", which is another way of saying that Russia remains a threat in ways besides their nukes. They have just killed 10's of thousands with conventional weapons and have committed assignations on the soil of our allies. Russia remains a threat in many ways, it is not just the nukes.

Hey, durochka, russia can't drive down the @#$@# highway and not have the convoy break down FOR WEEKS to go a couple hundred miles - they can't roll thought Ukraine, much less through germany -- i get it, you don't like facts, but the facts are RIGHT THERE --

Their ships? they've lost the same sub TWICE, and what, 30 ships sunk by a country without a navy, being sunk by homemade drones - the ships make better reefs than platforms

Their planes? admittedly some of their birds can go fast -- and some can turn ... nothing with a jet engine can do both


if YOU are nervous about their conventional forces? from Colorado?

hmm, i am taking it history and logic weren't part of you AA

I'm sure the 10's of thousands that have recently died from Russian conventional arms would disagree with your assessment Jeffe. Am I worried about my safety in Colorado? Hardly, that does not mean the threat is not real for those much closer to the sphere of Russian influence.

Logic? Something that you profoundly lack and prove here on ARPF on a daily basis.

How many billions of dollars or is it trillions of dollars to rebuild Ukraine?

Right, Russia is only a threat because of their nukes

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Right, Russia is only a threat because of their nukes

you FINALLY get it -- thanks ..

"you cut up my post" -- because you don't confront a single fact, you just went all emotive - didn't deny, offer argument or counter point .. just a big ole, toddler voice "nuh,uh!!"

no matter how you get there, you finally did it .. congratulations

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Right, Russia is only a threat because of their nukes

you FINALLY get it -- thanks ..

"you cut up my post" -- because you don't confront a single fact, you just went all emotive - didn't deny, offer argument or counter point .. just a big ole, toddler voice "nuh,uh!!"

no matter how you get there, you finally did it .. congratulations

Actually I pointed out much damage created by Russia through conventional means, you just failed to acknowledge those points.

Typical toddler behavior from you Honey.

Denial, no longer just a river.....

It is not the job of the U.S. to rebuild Ukraine, we should rebuild some of our pitiful Democrat run cities

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
It is not the job of the U.S. to rebuild Ukraine, we should rebuild some of our pitiful Democrat run cities

Who suggested the US pay for re-building Ukraine? The suggestion is that the US continue to contribute financially and with arms to Ukraine's defense while the Russians pay for the reconstruction of Ukraine.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Right, Russia is only a threat because of their nukes

you FINALLY get it -- thanks ..

"you cut up my post" -- because you don't confront a single fact, you just went all emotive - didn't deny, offer argument or counter point .. just a big ole, toddler voice "nuh,uh!!"

no matter how you get there, you finally did it .. congratulations

drones can do a lot of damages .. your previous friends in ukraine shown you the way ... it is not because they are not anymore your friends than you cannot get one or two things learnt from them ...

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Mike,
just to be clear, Obama said, (found the quote) "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years."

China is out biggest and worst enemy - russia is a bunch of busted field equipment, conscripts, and the worst threat is their nukes -- of which china has better ...

my fear in russia, especially before the wagner dude got shot out of the sky, was a push to moscow, and a nuclear exchange --

i have near zero fear of russia rolling over the eastern front into Europe ..

Russia is rolling over Ukraine right now buddy. Or, at least trying to. I don't know what Putin's territorial ambitions are but once these things get started, they can be difficult to stop. WW2 and all that. As for the assertion that Russia doesn't pose a threat...again....look to history. What did Hitler say about Russia? "Kick in the front door and the whole rotten structure will come crumbling down." Didn't work out so well for him. He kicked the bear and it was his downfall.

Underestimating the Russians is a fool's game.

Russia thought they would be done in 2 weeks, 2 years ago -- they are losing 1k per day, and being taken out by farmers with "old" equipment (so sayth the kleagle) and homemade drones --

seems like a "red dawn" (the original) engagement - so, vovkulya wolverine in Ukrainian, says google ---

My opinion is that if we got into a conventional only war with Russia alone, we would decisively win- but there would be lots of casualties on our side. Sure the Russians would look worse, but then what would the Poles think of tens of thousands of civilian casualties?

Anti air/missile defense isn’t 100% and doesn’t really work against dumb munitions- you can’t shoot down artillery shells.

We would lose some aircraft. The Russians are way more capable than the Iraqis or Iranians are.

BTW, the Backfire bomber is essentially what we wanted the B1 to be, supersonic long range strategic bomber. The prop one is the Bear which is essentially a retread of the B29. They don’t have many Backfires, but have a lot of Bears.

Their next generation one is the blackjack, and they may have newer than that. Their next generation big difference is they don’t have (at least that I’ve heard) stealth capable strategic bombers.

Sub launched short range shot ICBM’s are likely to hit before we could respond- but even ours require shallow depth to fire and have a cycle time that’s quite long. Each sub would get at best one shot off, maybe 2. They don’t have enough ICBM subs to wipe out our deterrent forces before we could shoot back- same holds with ours against them… thus MAD works.

I’m sure we have a few naval types here… how many SM2 missiles (surface to air) do we have? It’s my understanding that we don’t have enough- they have to pull the ones off of ships coming off patrol to give the ships heading out their combat load. Ukraine shows how fast you go through munitions in a war… make it worldwide and we just don’t have the ammunition we need- especially if it ends up being a two front war… fighting something like Afghanistan ended up stressing our logistics for crying out loud.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Russia thought they would be done in 2 weeks, 2 years ago -- they are losing 1k per day, and being taken out by farmers with "old" equipment (so sayth the kleagle) and homemade drones --

seems like a "red dawn" (the original) engagement - so, vovkulya wolverine in Ukrainian, says google ---

Well, Russia is learning the same lesson we did in Vietnam. When your opponent is fighting for his home, things get drawn out. And, I think we've provided Ukraine with a bit more than old rifles and obsolete drones.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Russia thought they would be done in 2 weeks, 2 years ago -- they are losing 1k per day, and being taken out by farmers with "old" equipment (so sayth the kleagle) and homemade drones --

seems like a "red dawn" (the original) engagement - so, vovkulya wolverine in Ukrainian, says google ---

Well, Russia is learning the same lesson we did in Vietnam. When your opponent is fighting for his home, things get drawn out. And, I think we've provided Ukraine with a bit more than old rifles and obsolete drones.

The claim of crummy equipment is from j5

most of expansionism wars do not work and even it is taking time the liberators always left ...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Mike,
just to be clear, Obama said, (found the quote) "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years."

China is out biggest and worst enemy - russia is a bunch of busted field equipment, conscripts, and the worst threat is their nukes -- of which china has better ...

my fear in russia, especially before the wagner dude got shot out of the sky, was a push to moscow, and a nuclear exchange --

i have near zero fear of russia rolling over the eastern front into Europe ..

Russia is rolling over Ukraine right now buddy. Or, at least trying to. I don't know what Putin's territorial ambitions are but once these things get started, they can be difficult to stop. WW2 and all that. As for the assertion that Russia doesn't pose a threat...again....look to history. What did Hitler say about Russia? "Kick in the front door and the whole rotten structure will come crumbling down." Didn't work out so well for him. He kicked the bear and it was his downfall.

Underestimating the Russians is a fool's game.

Hitler's Germany was fighting Russians on their home turf.