quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
The problem with too many people is that they seemingly have an inability to think of issues in any way other than binary. They refuse to acknowledge the existence of the gray area where in reality most issues fall. I think it is just their simplistic way of reasoning that allows them to go through life without having to challenge views that they hold that they recognize might have flaws.

Any one familiar with the Palestinian and Israeli conflict that tries to be even remotely reasonable has to accept that there is plenty of fault to go around on both sides. While the attacks by Hamas were an affront to any notion of decency, when you attempt to suppress a people for decades is it unreasonable to expect that such repression will create hate and an ultimate backlash?

There is no one side is right and one side is wrong in the Middle East. Issues that complex do not lend themselves to being put in a simple box. That is precisely why the problems have persisted for centuries. So long as we engage in picking sides, ignoring the fault and blood on the hands of the side we are supporting, the problem will remain insoluble.

quote:

Having said that, there is a difference between that and using that excuse to commit wholesale slaughter and mass-murder of innocents.

I see no evidence of that.

Please spare us the reason that Hamas launched its despicable attacks from Gaza so everyone in Gaza is a facilitator and a collaborator and hence worthy of killing. It takes a lot of blind conviction in the infallibility of one's belief so that mass-murder is justified without any moral qualms.

Further comment not worthy.

quote:

Originally posted by RobinOLocksley:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
The problem with too many people is that they seemingly have an inability to think of issues in any way other than binary. They refuse to acknowledge the existence of the gray area where in reality most issues fall. I think it is just their simplistic way of reasoning that allows them to go through life without having to challenge views that they hold that they recognize might have flaws.

Any one familiar with the Palestinian and Israeli conflict that tries to be even remotely reasonable has to accept that there is plenty of fault to go around on both sides. While the attacks by Hamas were an affront to any notion of decency, when you attempt to suppress a people for decades is it unreasonable to expect that such repression will create hate and an ultimate backlash?

There is no one side is right and one side is wrong in the Middle East. Issues that complex do not lend themselves to being put in a simple box. That is precisely why the problems have persisted for centuries. So long as we engage in picking sides, ignoring the fault and blood on the hands of the side we are supporting, the problem will remain insoluble.

Well said.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Actually, the end of WWII shows how you can deal with the Palestinians.

The problem will be that the militant Palestinians and their apologists will feel that they are being controlled and for too long… because that will need to happen before they can shrink the militant fringe to a small enough minority that the Palestinians will keep them in check without supervision.

An expectation of 40-80 years of occupation duty will be necessary.

Martial law for 5-6 years minimum after the war. Ongoing military tribunals for war crimes. Etc.

The way the Germans and the Japanese were made into responsible members of the world community is the blueprint.

Israel needs to eliminate all active combatant units and gain unconditional surrender, then occupy and rebuild Gaza. They would need to manage and control the reconstruction such that large scale ratholes like the current tunnel system is not redeveloped.

After 10-20 years, some semblance of monitored self governance can return. How the Palestinians deal with that will show how it goes forward afterwards.

It would give the Israelis a chance to show the Palestinians that they are not the boogeyman that the bad leadership of the Palestinians paints them as and it’s in their interest to make sure that things improve or the occupation will be bloody and expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I could certainly see where there would be issues when they did not permit the publication of Koranic suras that call for violence not be allowed or taught. That preachers who called for killing the infidel be promptly removed and imprisoned.

But it would work.

After a time, historic documents would be allowed. But look at how Germany treats its history now… that certainly wasn’t a popular view in Germany for the first several years after the war.

It’s not the US so there is no requirement for hands off on religion there.

Yes, there would be international outcry.

But it would work.