Everyone wants to pretend that 1950, 1940, 1920, 18 whenever is better than today.

We are significantly better in whole than then.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Everyone wants to pretend that 1950, 1940, 1920, 18 whenever is better than today.

We are significantly better in whole than then.

That is an opinion.

Not everyone agrees.

Now, I think you can list some things that everyone would agree on that were better, both then and now.

Yeah Jim Crow, Nazis, Slavery, Prosecutions for being gay.

Times were so good.

Church Courts.

Oh, a Bill of Rights that did not protect you from State Legislatures.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Everyone wants to pretend that 1950, 1940, 1920, 18 whenever is better than today.

We are significantly better in whole than then.

Who wouldn't miss politicians like Roosevelt or Eisenhower? Who wouldn't miss John Wayne and Roy Rogers?

The point of cowboy movies, hot rods, muzzle loading guns and sailboats are the romantic attachment to the past. Most everyone here enjoyed the stories their grandparents told about their past. Museums and libraries are still in order to record and preserve the past.

I dont think I'd of made a good trapper or settler, farming and ranching might have been tough for me and I'd never mind/ pan for gold a single morning. I think I'd of made a good pioneer scout or guide. Lead the wagons over the trail to California or Oregon, fight the Indians, find a campsite for the night. Finish the job and wander on and off.

I can't relate to the guy that would rather drive a Tesla in traffic during the morning commute chewing Tums and sipping Starbucks.
Yuck.

There's a reason most historical movies are "good guy wins" and futuristic movies are apocalyptic.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
Most of us 60-80+ year olds-

had a two parent households-
a true community around us-
other strong male and female figures other than our immediate families-
activities and social groups that instructed morals-- boy scouts ,faa, demolay-etc-etc-
we had knowledge of rapid consequenses for behavioral miscues and particularly excursions into lawlessness-
we had enforcement of rules, codes of behavior and law by numerous points of contact -other than our family-
we had no 1st person video shooting games for instruction/desensitization toward shooting those around us-
no rap or other audio influences encouraging/instructing shooting police, patrents or anyone that offends us, or meerly "messes with our stuff"-
no constant electronic mind-numbing assualt for our pocket electonic world that encompasses all we do-see-hear-feel-

in essence we had family/community and largely a society that would stay involved and gave a damn

Yes Sir! Well written, we don't need more laws ( we have enough that aren't enforced now) we need more morals and values!


.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Yeah Jim Crow, Nazis, Slavery, Prosecutions for being gay.
Agree those were bad.
How about Critical Race Theory, Anarchists, Drug Gangs, kids being taken to drag queen shows without parental consent, and Covid vaccination mandates?

Times were so good.
The Greatest Generation, Space exploration, the Golden Age of Safari hunting, all bad, huh?

Church Courts.
Sharia Courts.

Oh, a Bill of Rights that did not protect you from State Legislatures.

No abuse of the commerce clause and income taxation viewed as unconstitutional?



Face it, to determine "better" requires a subjective sense of what is more important. It is subjective.

Except the Commerce Clause is not abused. You just do not like modem precedent that keeps businesses from discriminating based in race, sex, gender, and religion. Those all good things and why the past should stay dead. There was a Constitutional Amendment for income tax which 2/3rds of the states approved.

Eisenhower signed a tax increase. The Faction would reject him in kind. President Theadore Rosevelt’s regulation of business and use of executive orders would cause the Faction to urinate on themselves.

Glad we had folks like them to push us to a better today.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Yeah Jim Crow, Nazis, Slavery, Prosecutions for being gay.
Agree those were bad.
How about Critical Race Theory, Anarchists, Drug Gangs, kids being taken to drag queen shows without parental consent, and Covid vaccination mandates?

Times were so good.
The Greatest Generation, Space exploration, the Golden Age of Safari hunting, all bad, huh?

Church Courts.
Sharia Courts.

Oh, a Bill of Rights that did not protect you from State Legislatures.

No abuse of the commerce clause and income taxation viewed as unconstitutional?



Face it, to determine "better" requires a subjective sense of what is more important. It is subjective.

Its all done in the educational system.....America bad, America bad, America bad....


You all are seeing a prime example, poor young heym has not only drank the coolaid, he's bathed in it and what's worse is the fact that he glorifies in his lack of knowledge.....

They teach social studies, not history......critical thinking? Logic? Not so much......

I think America is the best humanity has put toward. The fact is Lincoln was right we starve to make a more perfect union.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Except the Commerce Clause is not abused. You just do not like modem precedent that keeps businesses from discriminating based in race, sex, gender, and religion. Those all good things and why the past should stay dead. There was a Constitutional Amendment for income tax which 2/3rds of the states approved.

Eisenhower signed a tax increase. The Faction would reject him in kind. President Theadore Rosevelt’s regulation of business and use of executive orders would cause the Faction to urinate on themselves.

Glad we had folks like them to push us to a better today.

I think you need to look at how much folks actually paid in back when.

Yes, the rates were astronomical, but pretty much anything qualified for a deduction. We are paying more now as income earners than ever before, and I would propose we are getting less value than ever before.

How you defend a system that inherently allows a Warren Buffet to pay a lower percentage than any average professional baffles me… of course, his answer isn’t to fix the system, but rather to add a surtax that will also undoubtedly be gamed.

Same thing with Trump… how he could have the wealth he does and pay as little as he does is absurd. Legal, but absurd.

Similarly, the commerce clause is abused. While your comment on it being used to protect folks from state governments is correct, what the blue blazes does protecting against state government overreach have to do with commerce?!

We have a system. Place amendments as needed. Maybe if congress dealt with necessary changes instead of knee jerk populist idiocy the government would be working better.

The job of the legislature is to pass necessary laws, not for the courts to deal with legislative inertia.

Your statement was about the Unconstitutional Income Tax. However, it is not.

As for Buffet, I am all for taxing Stick Values as income. However, I do not have the votes. That does not make the system corrupt. That is Constitutional. Not taking Buffet’s sticks may be bad policy. Yet, it is up to Congress to define income. I do not have the votes. So be it. That does not make it an abuse.

Congress has the power to tax. That is the main function of Congress. The people get a say with their vote.

I will proffer an issue today is the bill never comes so. Congress floats it so having to make the hard
decision to fund.

You can call it absurd all you want. It would take serious Judicial Activism to change it.

It is Constitutional and appropriate.

Read the Supreme Court cases of you want to know how.

I am tried of spoon feeding them to you all.
Until, you read the cases on the Commerce Clause, you do not have an informed opinion.

It was unconstitutional until they passed an amendment back when.

Tell me a middle class taxpayer who likes the income tax?

You were the one saying how it is so much better now. As recently as FDR, the income tax was unconstitutional and ruled so by SCOTUS. Most folks would not think the income tax is an improvement- where the statement was made in support.

Similarly, using the commerce clause to justify federal government involvement in internal issues was historically MUCH more restrictive than today; again an issue most of us would classify as better.

Your statement about case law is where lawyers lose the rest of us. A decision is made, it becomes precedent; then another extension is made based off that precedent, and so on.

Yes, it’s logical (philosophically speaking) and how our courts work, especially now.

Back in the 1800’s the judiciary deferred to the legislature and refused to extend these arguments by stating that was the legislature’s role. Abortion was a classic case… as I recall historically the chief Justice put off trying to have a case as he thought it was more appropriately handled by the legislature… and was told they would not and the courts needed to deal with it. Legislative log jam and all.

Lots of people get annoyed when SCOTUS does some legerdemain like calling the penalties in Obamacare a tax, even though they clearly were called a penalty… so that they could call the law constitutional because they didn’t want to be seen as making policy.

What would have been the problem by saying, you called it a penalty for not buying a product. That’s unconstitutional. You want to make a tax, that would be different, but the law says penalty… unconstitutional as written?

While it may make sense to lawyers, others not so much so. Would we have the federal government bloat we do if all of these expansions had required 2/3 instead of a simple majority?

The argument is “better” not “legal”.

quote:

Yes, the rates were astronomical, but pretty much anything qualified for a deduction.
We are paying more now as income earners than ever before,
and I would propose we are getting less value than ever before.

For US income tax-before the 80's (and later changes)
I averaged 17 to 19% with the deductions

Now-- it is in the mid to high 30's

and HELL yes we are getting MUCH less for it

Just 150 yrs ago, there was vast empty places in the US and elsewhere. Few people to deal with.
If someone was an asshole you could kill them. A far more polite society who kept to their own.
If you had the time portal going, I would step through right now with the clothes on my back.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Just 150 yrs ago, there was vast empty places in the US and elsewhere. Few people to deal with.
If someone was an asshole you could kill them. A far more polite society who kept to their own.
If you had the time portal going, I would step through right now with the clothes on my back.

100%

+1

quote:

I can't relate to the guy that would rather drive a Tesla in traffic during the morning commute chewing Tums and sipping Starbucks.
Yuck.

Amen brother

quote:

There was a Constitutional Amendment for income tax which 2/3rds of the states approved.

Another time of Conservatives trying to compromise with Liberals and The People getting shafted.

quote:

Now-- it is in the mid to high 30's

+1