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Originally posted by wymple:

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Earth has the conditions and biodiversity that is unique to known science.

Known science is nothing in the scope of the universe.

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Originally posted by shankspony:
Maybe evolution gives rise to the same morality?

It seems a sensible idea for a species that can, do develop a series of codes which allow it to work cohesively as a species.

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Originally posted by shankspony:
We are special in that regard, Ill give you that. Though Ive seen more humans kill one another, than I have cattle, sheep, dogs, cats, giraffes, dolphins and panda bears etc...

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I do wonder if this "Morality" is nothing more than a curtain we pull over ourselves to stop us seeing the reality?

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Originally posted by shankspony:
So why then, do Morals change over time? And what about group morality that conflicts with another group? I get that group morality might help your group survive, But it also allows you to do despicable things to others outside your group. slavery for example.

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Originally posted by Huvius:

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Originally posted by shankspony:
So why then, do Morals change over time? And what about group morality that conflicts with another group? I get that group morality might help your group survive, But it also allows you to do despicable things to others outside your group. slavery for example.

I don't think that slavery was much of a moral question for many centuries or even millennia as it was a matter of economy.
It's not group morality that allows for subjugation of another group, it's the exercise of free will by a minority to ignore the lack of morality in their actions.
It's obvious that a group with low or absent morals will have an easy time of overpowering another group of higher morals.

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Originally posted by Huvius:

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Originally posted by wymple:

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Earth has the conditions and biodiversity that is unique to known science.

Known science is nothing in the scope of the universe.

True, so why waste money and other resources trying to figure it out.
Don't we have needs to be addressed here on Earth?
To most human beings, this type of scientific inquiry will never have any value beyond the "gee, that's interesting" stage.

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Originally posted by shankspony:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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(The great physicist Stephen Hawking said that only gravity is necessary for life to evolve.)

Hmmm…there is gravity on many celestial bodies without life. And what exactly is life? People die all the time from correctable physical maladies that are minutes away from repair. As Dr. Dollar well knows…we struggle tenuously to ‘keep them alive’ through the repair. Were life as simple as starting a car…why can’t “we” bring it back? IE: The doctors finish the aortic aneurysm repair (a simple matter of plumbing) 1 min after the patient expires…why can’t we simply fire them back up?

Life is fragile. Life is tenuous. Life is by design and plan.

I do beleive Lane, that you just took Stephen Hawking literally.

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Originally posted by shankspony:
yeah so we understand the concept of morality but dont necessarily act on it. Morality then is no different from any other concept that we as a species can verbalise some understanding of.
Maybe its only really language that differentiates us?
Given their freedom, are animals any less capable of free will than us? A dog will make a decision on how to get through or over a stream or fence. A cape buffalo will decide whether to attack or avoid a lion if it sees it. Both will combine as a group to protect the young of others in their group, and both will attack in anger if threatened.

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Originally posted by shankspony:
And we are not motivated by the same self preservation?

There is a video doing the rounds right now of a russian soldier storming a foxhole with two Ukrainians in it. he asks them to surrender but for some reason they are confused and tell him they are friends not understanding he is russian. They dont put down thier guns but they are not acting aggressively, just confused. So he steps back and gives them a burst from his AK.
Despite supporting Ukraine I understand his actions, as it was self preservation and morality gos out the door at that point.

Your grizzly bear eating moose calves. yesterday I advised publicly on a nZ forum that we should be shooting more female deer and at this time of year to shoot the fawns as well as they are really good eating. Many would say that That was a lack of morals on my part. Im just looking at the bigger picture and we are risking currently having way too many deer, so we should drop some morals until we have them back under control.

I have no problem with that ^^^ (or the bears).

Morals are nothing more than our ability to express an idea and have it accepted by the majority.

Morals are a sense of right and wrong. Animals don’t possess that.

Getting off topic now but yes I do agree there are vast differences between humans and animals. But the basics that we have built on exist in animals and our own instincts for self preservation are all animal.

What is life is always a great question, no matter who asks it or what side of an argument you are on. You and I might have a very different view as seen above, but we have exactly the same answer to that one. " I dont know."

For me i do not know why we are here, I dont know how we came to be and I certainly dont know of any meaning to life. But at a guess Id say we can have a purpose-

If we have a purpose…which I believe we do…I would suggest that we could not have arisen by chance. For if so…who would have assigned the purpose?

possibly to improve and find answers and experiment, and make big goals for ourselves as a species. Maybe we will find a way to adventure off this rock, spread across this galaxy, leave our bodies behind yet keep our consciousness? who knows?

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Originally posted by shankspony:
I disagree thats its a sense of right and wrong. Its seems to be more what the group accepts

Agree to disagree.

But yeah whatever it is, animals dont posses it I agree. They have no need to and can not operate on a wide enough scope to need it. Back to bears eating other animals young- we do it every day, chicken, veal, lamb.

Agreed…no problem from me.

As to purpose, I think we give ourselves purpose We dont need any other being setting that for us. Its hardwired into us from the day we started to push out of africa and into Europe and beyond.

Disagree

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Originally posted by ledvm:
All humans may be descended from just TWO people and a catastrophic event almost wiped out ALL species 100,000 years ago,study suggests

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Originally posted by Saeed:

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Originally posted by ledvm:
All humans may be descended from just TWO people and a catastrophic event almost wiped out ALL species 100,000 years ago,study suggests

Then why is incest illegal?

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Originally posted by jdollar:

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Originally posted by ledvm:
All humans may be descended from just TWO people and a catastrophic event almost wiped out ALL species 100,000 years ago,study suggests

I’m simply not buying that the entire human race evolved from the genetic diversity of 2 people. If God created the human race from Adam and Eve and his creations are by definition, perfect, where do genetic, inherited diseases come from? It obviously has nothing to do with free will.

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So, in my opinion, if one chooses to believe that God created everything and that Adam and Eve were the progenitors of human life, over the supposition that the entire universe and everything we know or believe is just a huge and incredibly unlikely result of millions of coincidental occurrences, all the better.

The belief in God and that we are part of his creation inherently gives rise to man's morality and ethical stewardship of everything God has given us.
On the other hand, if one genuinely believes that everything including our own existence is simply the result of a few billion years of accidents, then what's the point?

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Originally posted by shankspony:

As to purpose, I think we give ourselves purpose We dont need any other being setting that for us. Its hardwired into us from the day we started to push out of africa and into Europe and beyond.

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Originally posted by lavaca:
Lane,

The supposed difference in your examples is that lions and wild dogs don't act based on morality. They act on instinct. We expect humans to act based on some sense of morality, but when we do, we are repeatedly disappointed. Humans seem every bit or more savage than the other animals on the planet.

I walked over some footprints near Lake Natron that are thousands of years old. There were human footprints, as well as eland footprints. What did those people have to do to survive? I wonder about that.

I'm sure there have been all kinds of abominable acts by humans against other humans over the ages in the interest if survival. What is puzzling is that despite all the religions that have developed over the centuries, nothing much has changed.

Humans are still killing each other for the same reasons they killed each other centuries ago. Seems we are just like any other animal and religion has become a reason for humans to kill each other.

Nothing has really changed.