Laughable that Arizona would try to make fun of California, when apparently Arizona has the market cornered in MAGA idiots. https://www.politico.com/news/...nialism-lae-00080615 It's a toss-up whether MAGA idiots in Arizona are dumber than MAGA idiots in Texas.

You get enough crazies together in one place and they start thinking they are normal. That is where the Republican Party finds itself.

I think that was well proven by the statements here of the Faction after they lost GA (again), Pennsylvania, Nevada, Pennsylvania Governor’s race, Michigan Governor’s race, almost lost Wisconsin, New Hampshire, and Arizona.

Had a great economy to run on and only took the House by a scant 5.

Modulate, end the culture war, or keep loosing elections.

You two exemplify the Left's core perfectly.

Winning is the ONLY thing.
It doesn't matter whether you provide solutions, improvements, or betterment of any kind, it's the WINNING that counts!

And yes, there are times when it is ethically and morally better to "lose rather than change"

Change your mind or lose?
Maybe.
Change your habits or lose?
Perhaps.
Change your beliefs or lose?
Convince me.
Change your religion or lose?
Nope.
Change your acceptance of what you know to be absolutely true or lose?
Never!

This is where we find ourselves right now and it isn't good.

Left did not storm the Capital to win.



The Faction in here talks about ends justifying the means.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Left did not storm the Capital to win.



The Faction in here talks about ends justifying the means.

The left has had factions that have stormed capitals before. They have bombed and attempted insurrection as well. Not at an election, but they have done political violence.

It is abhorrent, and I’m glad that those who participated in political violence are being dealt with… but it doesn’t mean that the rest of the right is wrong and the left is the only good guys.

One should think a bit on what is going on with the country so that we have so many of our citizens (on both sides) that are willing to resort to violence, and why…

The Left did not storm the Capital. The motivation was not to overturn the election.

The Left did bomb the capital building. President Clinton pardoned a coupe of them.

Only the Right has tried to keep a defeated President in power by force and inspired by that Defeated President.

If you exclude the civil war…

And leftists have occupied state capitols before.

I guess that is all the right has left at this point . . . drawing false equivalencies. Meanwhile Trump declares that Officer Byrd was a "thug" and "coward" and Ashli Babbitt was a "Great Patriot".

My question is why does it always come down to being left or right, Rep or Dem. What ever happened to being in the middle? I am NOT a Rep or a Dem, I am independent and vote for the person NOT the PARTY. We have factions that are way too far to the left or way too far to the right that polarize people one way or the other. Both sides have some good ideas and some dumb ones. How about we pick the good from each and move forward.

I am a Registered R and consider myself moderate. However, we put ourselves out there in the market place if ideas. The consumer has some say.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I guess that is all the right has left at this point . . . drawing false equivalencies. Meanwhile Trump declares that Officer Byrd was a "thug" and "coward" and Ashli Babbitt was a "Great Patriot".

False equivalency?

Hardly.

Trump is one of the worst presidents we have had due to this situation and his unwillingness to do anything to stop it. That I agree with.

The fact that the left has its own kook fringe and it is accepted (note the above comment about Clinton pardoning folks who bombed the capitol)… is not a false equivalence.

We have issues with political violence and it’s acceptability in this country. It used to be the GOP refuted its use unequivocally, and the Dems made allowances. Now both play the game.

I don’t buy that political violence is worse just because it occurred with the election. Political violence is unacceptable in a country with functional democracy. I don’t care if you label it any particular way.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If you exclude the civil war…

And leftists have occupied state capitols before.

What are we taking about? We are taking about he Federal Government.

There has never been by force an attempt to overturn and keep a defeated President in Power until Jan6. That was from the Right.

The Civil War was about a group of state leaving the Union because they rejected who won the Presidency. At least, that was what the first group lead by S. Carolina was all about. South Carolina fired on Fed Property first.

There is occupying and protest. Then there is seizing or attempting to seize by violence.

Are we going to go back the the Whiskey Rebellion or Shay’s Rebellion.

The Left had not engaged in what the Right did on Jan 6 with the support of the defeated setting President.

Excluding the Civil War, we have previously had a peaceful transition of power until the Right declared otherwise; win at all cost, ends justify the means.

It is what the French could not do.

quote:

There is occupying and protest. Then there is seizing or attempting to seize by violence.

What, exactly, did the Jan.6 protestors seize or attempt to seize other than some furnishings from the Capitol?

It's not as though they could actually do a damn thing about the election results.
I hear over and over from you guys that they were attempting to overturn the election.
How would that even be possible?

It wasn't and isn't but that's the straw man argument that carries the day for the Left.

Clearly, you all keep that in your back pocket to throw out like a penalty flag whenever you have an argument.
Your equivalent to the Race Card I guess...

The goal was to stop the electors from casting their votes and push it over to the house where the GOP majority could vote party line and supersede the will of the voters. What the Jan 6th protesters(I prefer rioters) did was attempt to seize the election. I'm delighted to see them doing time.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
The goal was to stop the electors from casting their votes and push it over to the house where the GOP majority could vote party line and supersede the will of the voters. What the Jan 6th protesters(I prefer rioters) did was attempt to seize the election. I'm delighted to see them doing time.

But that wouldn't have happened. The Senate vote could have easily been postponed under the circumstances.
The rioters (as you prefer) never had any reasonable ability to do a damn thing about the election and you all know that.
Prosecute them for their crimes, fine, but the facade of overturning the election is so thin, it's ridiculous.

I am in no way saying that the reasoning was sound, but that was the whacky plan.

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
The goal was to stop the electors from casting their votes and push it over to the house where the GOP majority could vote party line and supersede the will of the voters. What the Jan 6th protesters(I prefer rioters) did was attempt to seize the election. I'm delighted to see them doing time.

But that wouldn't have happened. The Senate vote could have easily been postponed under the circumstances.
The rioters (as you prefer) never had any reasonable ability to do a damn thing about the election and you all know that.
Prosecute them for their crimes, fine, but the facade of overturning the election is so thin, it's ridiculous.

The Senate certification should not have to be stopped, and the violence did force the stop.

Intent matters. The violence breeched the Capital. Armed guards had to Defend our Congress.

People died. More deserved too. Stop making excuses.

You almost lost your Democratic Republic for Trump.

You and the Faction are ridiculous; not Dems in general, not gay people, not minorities. You.

quote:

You almost lost your Democratic Republic for Trump.

Oh, for FUCK'S sake...
There you go again.

I "almost" won the Indy 500 in my '96 Dodge pickup!

Did you enter the race with intent to win?

Foolishness doesn't count. Intent does.

quote:

Did you enter the race with intent to win?

Foolishness doesn't count. Intent does.

OK, that covers eleven of the Jan. 6th rioters.

Only eleven have been charged with Seditious Conspiracy.

Hardly a force remotely capable of putting our Democratic Republic in peril.

I think the number is 14 convicted of seditious conspiracy.

Along many x over Felonies.

I posted the numbers not too long ago in here.

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:

quote:

You almost lost your Democratic Republic for Trump.

Oh, for FUCK'S sake...
There you go again.

I "almost" won the Indy 500 in my '96 Dodge pickup!

You never ran an Indy 500 in a Dodge. Your civil government was attacked by the Right to keep a defeated president in power.

The factions attempts at mitigation.

quote:

You never ran an Indy 500 in a Dodge. Your civil government was attacked by the Right to keep a defeated president in power

No, but I pondered it.
In your book, that's enough.

You say "the Right" but I've not seen you broadly attribute any wrongdoing to "the Left".

Why is that?

There have been rioters arrested in “nearly all 50 states,” and over 260 of them have been charged with more serious crimes relating to assaulting or impeding law enforcement, according to the DOJ.

HOW MANY HAVE PLEADED GUILTY

465. About 465 rioters have pleaded guilty and entered into plea deals. The charges they’ve pleaded guilty to include assault on law enforcement and obstruction of a civil proceeding. John Schaffer, a lifetime founding member of the Oath Keepers, was the first to enter into a plea deal and faces up to 30 years in prison, according to the DOJ.

HOW MANY HAVE BEEN SENTENCED

335. According to the DOJ, about 335 people have received sentencing in relation to the January 6 attacks, and approximately 185 have been sentenced to time in prison. Florida resident Paul Hodgkins was the first person federally sentenced in relation to the attack. He received eight months in federal prison and two years of supervised release.

Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/a...p-may-still-pay/amp/

If you pondered it and drive on the track. These guys got on the track in their Dodges.
They brought violence and stopped the certification with that violence. They ran the race.

Four more convicted the end of January
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr...ed-us-capitol-breach

As I've said before, prosecute the idiots if they've committed a crime.
Claiming that our Constitution or Republic were in peril because of these clowns is a bridge too far though.
But, if it makes you feel better about yourself, just keep up the chant.

And let us not to use Kevin McCarthy’s words,”Sweep under the rug” what Jan 6 was.

When members of Congress have to be taken to secure locations under armed guard, when the Certification and transfer of power to the new Government is stopped, when a mass pushed through a police line and chant, “Hang” the VP, when President that list gives an unconstitutional directive to the VO to stay in power, and that President as Commandeer in Chief does nothing to stop that violence more is happening that just idiocy.

That is a valid attempt to destroy this Constitutional Democracy.

I was on here long ago taking about breaking ANTIFA. I had no problem with President Trump National Guarding the DC riot.

Look somewhere else for anarchy.

You would not have permitted President Obama to have done what President Trump did with the left to deliver the Presidency to himself or another Dem. I would not either.