Why on earth would he be having Elon Musk host him when announcing his candidacy?

Musk is generally viewed as a complete weirdo. Have I missed something? Is Musk a popular figure with republicans?

Elon is fiscally conservative. He is also a freedom advocate and will stand up to protect it. He is South African and can see how a beautiful thriving first world country can revert back to 3rd world. And he is genius level intelligent.

I am sure like Donald Trump he has characteristics which I would have to take with a grain of salt.

But…I admire the overall sum of Elon very much. My 80+ year old rancher Dad who lives in the sticks (but whom is a genius stock and asset manager) also likes him very much. According to my Dad…Elon is often discussed at the rancher coffee table and is well thought of.

My 2¢

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Elon is fiscally conservative. He is also a freedom advocate and will stand up to protect it. He is South African and can see how a beautiful thriving first world country can revert back to 3rd world. And he is genius level intelligent.

I am sure like Donald Trump he has characteristics which I would have to take with a grain of salt.

But…I admire the overall sum of Elon very much. My 80+ year old rancher Dad who lives in the sticks (but whom is a genius stock and asset manager) also likes him very much. According to my Dad…Elon is often discussed at the rancher coffee table and is well thought of.

My 2¢

Comparing Musk with Trump??

One is a genius.

The other is a draft dodging career criminal!

Elon Musk is John Gault, with a neofascist twist.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Elon Musk is John Gault, with a neofascist twist.

Calling Elon a “neofascist” has to rank amongst some of the dumbest/ill-researched conclusions I have ever heard someone come to.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Elon Musk is John Gault, with a neofascist twist.

Calling Elon a “neofascist” has to rank amongst some of the dumbest/ill-researched conclusions I have ever heard someone come to.

It's all in the definition.
Fascist: 1. Anyone who doesn't embrace the Democrat party wholeheartedly.

He seems like a nut to me. And, I don't know his politics. It's also my understanding that there are a lot of folks that think all he does is hire smart competent people who do all the work and Musk then takes all the credit.

It just seems weird to me that DeSantis would have chosen him to be included in his campaign roll-out. On the other hand, when you're down 42 points to trump in Iowa, I guess it doesn't matter.

trump's reaction on Truth Social was bizarre too. Posted this up:

"'Rob,' My Red Button is bigger, better, stronger, and is working (TRUTH!), yours does not! (per my conversation with Kim Jung Un, of North Korea, soon to become my friend!),"

I guess he had a stroke too since he doesn't drink.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uCl-uMSx96w

Donald Trump & Ron DeSantis Will Destroy Each Other. Sit Back & Enjoy

quote:

Originally posted by 788:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Elon Musk is John Gault, with a neofascist twist.

Calling Elon a “neofascist” has to rank amongst some of the dumbest/ill-researched conclusions I have ever heard someone come to.

It's all in the definition.
Fascist: 1. Anyone who doesn't embrace the Democrat party wholeheartedly.

Well, I didn't make it up.

There's been a lot written.

https://www.google.com/search?...1&bih=841&dpr=2#ip=1

And dismissing fascism is a mistake.

You Americans are funny
On this site, you are always ready to start civil war
Fortunately, most American people are smarter then that…

quote:

Originally posted by 788:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Elon Musk is John Gault, with a neofascist twist.

Calling Elon a “neofascist” has to rank amongst some of the dumbest/ill-researched conclusions I have ever heard someone come to.

It's all in the definition.
Fascist: 1. Anyone who doesn't embrace the Democrat party wholeheartedly.

Exactly!

Alright - Steve Bannon is a fascist.

The GOP think tanks, Heartland, Federalist, etc., have adopted many of his ideas and have developed plans to implement.

Why would DeSantis be interested at all in Elon Musk if they weren't both fascist?

Wednesday evening, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) laid out a sprawling vision for transforming the federal government and gutting the administrative state.

DeSantis described a plan to vastly expand the role of America’s chief executive

In his campaign announcement, DeSantis said his administration would make major reforms to public health, immigration, education, and Bitcoin.

He pledged to declare a national emergency on his first day, to reverse Biden policies, build a wall, and reinstate Trump’s “Remain in Mexico policy.”

the health agencies that carried out his agency “need to be cleaned out,” calling for “a major, major overhaul of the whole enchilada with respect to public health in this country.”

ME,
Can you define fascism? And once defined, can you list the defined characteristics of a fascist that apply to Ron DeSantis?

PS: I don’t want to hear “a far-right ideology.” I want hear the specific characteristics that make it far right.

I posted about an 18 line definition of Fascism in this sub forum before.

Is Steve Bannon facists. I do not know. I have not looked that hard at him.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
ME,
Can you define fascism? And once defined, can you list the defined characteristics of a fascist that apply to Ron DeSantis?

I've done that before, but not specifically re DeSantis.

I don't need to define Fascism. That's done for me, both relating to historical and present, which share traits, but differ in some ways.

If it would really do any good, I'll do it again. But I'm busy now, fixing breakfast, etc.

The thing is that anyone wanting to draw similarities, even parallels, with fascism and the GOP, it's easy.

Another thing is that if one wants to dismiss those parallels, that's easy too.

Dismissal doesn't mean that's reality.

All one has to do is look at the facts, and connect the dots, and accept the traits of fascism as they apply.

I do not believe I'm being bias about this. And, I've made numerous posts with source showing that I'm not making this shit up.

===============================================

Oh, and BTW, I have been presuming that Fascism isn't something desirable for most conservatives or GOPers. I could be wrong about that. The thought occurred that maybe I've missed the point, and it is desirable to repugs, given their means to end, and zero-sum. Actually, now that I think about that, I'm sure Trumpsters are okay with Fascism as a means to end.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...b2cc28d3452e9&ei=145

The biggest problem with Ron DeSantis’s announcement wasn’t Twitter

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
ME,
Can you define fascism? And once defined, can you list the defined characteristics of a fascist that apply to Ron DeSantis?

I've done that before, but not specifically re DeSantis.

I don't need to define Fascism. That's done for me, both relating to historical and present, which share traits, but differ in some ways.

If it would really do any good, I'll do it again. But I'm busy now, fixing breakfast, etc.

The thing is that anyone wanting to draw similarities, even parallels, with fascism and the GOP, it's easy.

Another thing is that if one wants to dismiss those parallels, that's easy too.

Dismissal doesn't mean that's reality.

All one has to do is look at the facts, and connect the dots, and accept the traits of fascism as they apply.

I do not believe I'm being bias about this. And, I've made numerous posts with source showing that I'm not making this shit up.

===============================================

Oh, and BTW, I have been presuming that Fascism isn't something desirable for most conservatives or GOPers. I could be wrong about that. The thought occurred that maybe I've missed the point, and it is desirable to repugs, given their means to end, and zero-sum. Actually, now that I think about that, I'm sure Trumpsters are okay with Fascism as a means to end.

ME

At least, he does not want a state to be able to force 12 year olds to deliver babies claiming to be a libertarian.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
ME,
Can you define fascism? And once defined, can you list the defined characteristics of a fascist that apply to Ron DeSantis?

I've done that before, but not specifically re DeSantis.

I don't need to define Fascism. That's done for me, both relating to historical and present, which share traits, but differ in some ways.

If it would really do any good, I'll do it again. But I'm busy now, fixing breakfast, etc.

The thing is that anyone wanting to draw similarities, even parallels, with fascism and the GOP, it's easy.

Another thing is that if one wants to dismiss those parallels, that's easy too.

Dismissal doesn't mean that's reality.

All one has to do is look at the facts, and connect the dots, and accept the traits of fascism as they apply.

I do not believe I'm being bias about this. And, I've made numerous posts with source showing that I'm not making this shit up.

===============================================

Oh, and BTW, I have been presuming that Fascism isn't something desirable for most conservatives or GOPers. I could be wrong about that. The thought occurred that maybe I've missed the point, and it is desirable to repugs, given their means to end, and zero-sum. Actually, now that I think about that, I'm sure Trumpsters are okay with Fascism as a means to end.

ME

I can find a lot of agreement with my POV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...te_note-Goldberg1-85

You would dismiss me and my view no matter what.

However, I don't dismiss you.

I think you are mainstream dangerous fascist fodder, a prime example.

There is no dismissing you.

You will see to that, one way or another, and the threat you deal in will never go away entirely.

Trumpism has shown us how it is, and how he thinks it should be, and how to exploit the masses as a means to an end.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
ME,
Can you define fascism? And once defined, can you list the defined characteristics of a fascist that apply to Ron DeSantis?

I've done that before, but not specifically re DeSantis.

I don't need to define Fascism. That's done for me, both relating to historical and present, which share traits, but differ in some ways.

If it would really do any good, I'll do it again. But I'm busy now, fixing breakfast, etc.

The thing is that anyone wanting to draw similarities, even parallels, with fascism and the GOP, it's easy.

Another thing is that if one wants to dismiss those parallels, that's easy too.

Dismissal doesn't mean that's reality.

All one has to do is look at the facts, and connect the dots, and accept the traits of fascism as they apply.

I do not believe I'm being bias about this. And, I've made numerous posts with source showing that I'm not making this shit up.

===============================================

Oh, and BTW, I have been presuming that Fascism isn't something desirable for most conservatives or GOPers. I could be wrong about that. The thought occurred that maybe I've missed the point, and it is desirable to repugs, given their means to end, and zero-sum. Actually, now that I think about that, I'm sure Trumpsters are okay with Fascism as a means to end.

Sooooo...... In much fewer words without your ducking and dodging, with out your mindless cutting and pasting, without your self serving mindless links.....

NO! You can't define facism!

NO! You can't name a single thing to define Desantis as a fascist!

You don't like him so in your endeavors female mind that makes him and basically anyone that you don't agree with a fascist....

You are a pathetic old woman!

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Alright - Steve Bannon is a fascist.
Really? A bad guy, maybe. Divisiove, sure. Fascist? I don't think so, but I suppose I could be convinced... but how does a political campaign director get fascist? If he gets his guy in as a fascist, he's out of a job...

The GOP think tanks, Heartland, Federalist, etc., have adopted many of his ideas and have developed plans to implement.
His ideas or ideas he espoused? There is a difference, you know.

Why would DeSantis be interested at all in Elon Musk if they weren't both fascist?
MONEY.

Wednesday evening, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) laid out a sprawling vision for transforming the federal government and gutting the administrative state.
Hardly fascist. Libertarians buy that too, and libertarians are pretty much antethetical to fascism.

DeSantis described a plan to vastly expand the role of America’s chief executive
Well, that Could be fascist... So FDR was a fascist?

In his campaign announcement, DeSantis said his administration would make major reforms to public health, immigration, education, and Bitcoin.
Frankly, all would be needed. The dems also think so... just a rather different goal of what to do with them.

He pledged to declare a national emergency on his first day, to reverse Biden policies, build a wall, and reinstate Trump’s “Remain in Mexico policy.”
Nowdays, a national emergency seems to be staus quo. Biden has what? 2 or 3 running right now per him? A wall? not very effective, but better than nothing. Remain in Mexico? Sounds reasonable.

the health agencies that carried out his agency “need to be cleaned out,” calling for “a major, major overhaul of the whole enchilada with respect to public health in this country.”

Public health (as someone in the field) really needs cleaning up. We need a CDC that is targeted at working with contagious diseases within the framework of science, and stays the Sam Hill out of politics. I am not against infusing quite a bit of money into public health, and some of my thoughts may not be very popular with the right... but we do need to get the soft science types out of there and get back to facts only.

Actually Kabob, I asked you to define fascism some time ago. You refused to. Instead you posted links and opinion pieces and said " this is what I think it is, they say it better" Then you went on to say, fascism is not the same today as it was, it's changed.
I dont see how something can change, but still be the same thing.
I see fascism as your new favorite word to describe things you are scared of. There are parts of true fascism that are just like liberal/progressive views. That doesnt make libs and progressive fascists.
But, keep pretending you know, we get a good chuckle out of it.

DeSantos is an opportunistic whore. He knows that he can’t beat Trump in a primary, but he is groveling to the MAGA crowd hoping, praying and believing that Trump is going to have multiple indictments and pulls out.

Bingo, he’s the answer for the nutty MAGA shitheads.

quote:

DeSantos is an opportunistic whore.

what politician isn’t

Steve Bannon is bared from leaving the country, but was discovered trying to flee to South America.

He was disguised as a recently showered man.

Steve Bannon:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...rview_and_influences

Seems fascist to me.

It is no coincidence that the conservative think tanks have a plan to dismantle the "administrative state".

And in addition - to vastly increase Executive powers.

==============================================

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3427213634231510

===============================================

https://www.nbcnews.com/politi...white-house-n1280591

Bannon fires up 'shock troops' for next GOP White House
The former adviser to President Donald Trump spoke Wednesday night to a new association of Republican presidential appointees in Washington.

===============================================

https://www.huffpost.com/entry...10cce4b06169caa6a502

==============================================

https://www.salon.com/2021/10/...boots-on-the-ground/

Now the GOP has a coup plan — and Steve Bannon's ready to put boots on the ground
Former Trump strategist hopes to make election-reversal possible at "precinct level" — and the GOP is on board

================================================

https://news.yahoo.com/steve-b...roops-005257088.html

Steve Bannon Calls For 'Shock Troops' To 'Deconstruct' State As GOP Takes Oval Office

=============================================

https://www.independent.co.uk/...s-rant-b1932144.html

Steve Bannon pledges 20k ‘shock troops’ ready to go as he rants that ‘we control this country’
Donald Trump’s former strategist has called on GOP to ‘deconstruct’ the state

Steve Bannon wants 20,000 shock troops. Here's how it's done:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/0...tage-foundation.html

Heritage Foundation Makes Plans to Staff Next G.O.P. Administration
No matter the Republican, the effort has set a goal of up to 20,000 potential officials in a database akin to a right-wing LinkedIn.

Think of it as a right-wing LinkedIn. This so-called Project 2025 — part of a $22 million presidential transition operation at a scale never attempted before in conservative politics — is being led by the Heritage Foundation, a group that has been staffing Republican administrations since the Reagan era.

more than 50 conservative groups have temporarily set aside rivalries to team up with Heritage on the project, set to start Friday.

They have already identified several thousand potential recruits and have set a goal of having up to 20,000 potential administration officials in their database by the end of 2024, according to Kevin Roberts, the president of Heritage. Heritage has contracted the technology company Oracle to build a secure personnel database, Dr. Roberts said.

“In 2016, the conservative movement was not prepared to flood the zone with conservative personnel,” Dr. Roberts said. “On Jan. 20, 2025, things will be very different. This database will prepare an army of vetted, trained staff to begin dismantling the administrative state from Day 1.”

Heritage and its project partners have already briefed Mr. Trump and Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida and their teams, Dr. Roberts said

Typically, a new president is allowed to replace around 4,000 “political appointees” — a revolving layer that sits atop the federal work force. Below the political layer lies a long-term work force of more than two million, who have strong employment protections meant to make it harder for a new president of a different political party to fire them. These protections, enshrined in law, established a civil service that is supposed to be apolitical — with federal officials accumulating subject matter and institutional expertise over long careers in the service of both Republican and Democratic presidents.

Mr. Trump wants to demolish that career civil service — or what he pejoratively calls “the deep state.” He has privately told allies that if he gets back into power he plans to fire far more than the 4,000 government officials that presidents are typically allowed to replace. Mr. Trump’s lawyers already have the legal instrument in hand.

In late 2020, Mr. Trump issued an executive order that would establish a new employment category for federal workers, called “Schedule F.” Barely anyone noticed because the order was developed in strict secrecy over more than a year and issued only two weeks before the 2020 election.

The news was lost amid the postelection chaos as Mr. Trump desperately tried to overturn the result.

Yeah kabob.....you sure need others to tell you what to think....you certainly aren't capable of coming up with your own thoughts...

Scared, pathetic old woman.....

.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Actually Kabob, I asked you to define fascism some time ago. You refused to. Instead you posted links

I'm NEVER going to give you, Lane, or anyone the satisfaction of trying to define Fascism in my own words. It would be like extending an arm to a drowning person - then we both drown.

If you can't figure it out for yourself, then you probably are one or at least fascist fodder - in denial.

As I explained before, there are plenty of writings on the topic, defining/distinguishing it in the past and present. But you are set to discredit me either way. So, discredit the authors who really know what they are talking about. I'm too easy.

If you can't accept that, then I presume that your intentions are not good.

I express my opinions with plenty of backup and sources.

Do you?

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
Yeah kabob.....you sure need others to tell you what to think....you certainly aren't capable of coming up with your own thoughts...

Scared, pathetic old woman.....

.

I can see that you are a unique thinker, and proud of it. Wallow in it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...342b2d6d10df1a&ei=27

Conservatives want an American dictator. That's not a metaphor.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...342b2d6d10df1a&ei=36

DeSantis' 'day one' presidential priority doesn't bode well for democracy

left wing site opinion article x2.

Sounds like agitprop to me.

I don't know a single conservative that wants a dictator or a strongman in government. A few that I would call Trumpists or such, yes, they feel that the left has done them so much wrong that they think only Trump as dear leader will right the scales. Those folks are neither conservative, nor right in the head, IMO.

Biden essentially said the same stuff substituting Trump for Biden, and you greeted that with joy. You are every bit as partisan as Lane is, but you seem to think you are not.

Lane flat out admits he is a right wing person who thinks the GOP is the better choice. But he regularly admits that the republicans make mistakes, some major. His tone re Trump has certainly moderated as Trump shoots his mouth off.

You seem to think you are not fringe.

I have yet to hear you admit that Biden is a problem and that you regret that he was the Democrat candidate for President yet.

High school was a long time ago, but back then fascism was defined as a political system of governance in which there was private ownership of business but with full government control of businesses. This system certainly isn't desirable, although I think with all the regulations we have on us, we're closer to facism than most of us would like to believe. (Dems and Republicans are both responsible for this.) Somehow fascist has become an insult like nazi, bigot,your mom wears army boots, etc.
Throw the term around enough, and it loses it's impact.

quote:

I don't know a single conservative that wants a dictator or a strongman in government. A few that I would call Trumpists or such, yes, they feel that the left has done them so much wrong that they think only Trump as dear leader will right the scales. Those folks are neither conservative, nor right in the head, IMO.

DeSantis is more dangerous than trump. He wouldn't be so foolish as to shoot himself in the foot so often in pursuit of his power grabbing. And plenty of us who voted for Biden would have much preferred a younger candidate less likely to stumble around with the gaffes. But trump does plenty of that as well and Lane gives him a pass for everything even tho he the dirtiest SOB possible, and Biden is still a saint in comparison. Lane sticking his head up his ass doesn't change that. There is ZERO reason to support trump no matter who the opposition is. He's that bad, and no democrat is, even the worst of them.

quote:

Lane flat out admits he is a right wing person who thinks the GOP is the better choice. But he regularly admits that the republicans make mistakes, some major. His tone re Trump has certainly moderated as Trump shoots his mouth off.

From what I've observed, you sometimes address Republican misconduct--not always mere "mistakes"--with weak equivalencies. Even when it's on the mark, an equivalency doesn't excuse another wrong.

Lane usually addresses Republican misconduct with denials and excuses. I hope it's not Trump's mouth that's reason for a man to disqualify him from office. It's what Trump has done.

I don't mean to imply that Democrats don't do the same. But that's an equivalency.

As for Biden, do you remember who his D primary opponents were? One was the current VP. Which one would have made a better president?

There are not enough votes to elect a "fascist" from either the left or right ranks. The extremes of each party have pockets of support, but country wide. fall far short.
Kabob pees his panties over everything, then looks for support in an opinion link. I dont need to discredit you Kabob, you do that yourself.

quote:

There are not enough votes to elect a "fascist"

BS

Votes by the millions from fascist fodder.

Trump got elected once and might again. DeSantis has a chance.

Both are Fascists.

But in a way you are correct. A candidate who declares he's a fascist has no chance.

Same with fascist fodder. Can you imagine Doc Butler and Lane or perhaps yourself declaring to be fascist fodder and proud of it?

So, you will remain in denial.

Anyway, here's your token opinion link:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...853558995630c1&ei=23

A Ron DeSantis Presidency Would Be All Authoritarian Culture War Nonsense

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
left wing site opinion article x2.

Sounds like agitprop to me.

I don't know a single conservative that wants a dictator or a strongman in government. A few that I would call Trumpists or such, yes, they feel that the left has done them so much wrong that they think only Trump as dear leader will right the scales. Those folks are neither conservative, nor right in the head, IMO.

Biden essentially said the same stuff substituting Trump for Biden, and you greeted that with joy. You are every bit as partisan as Lane is, but you seem to think you are not.

Lane flat out admits he is a right wing person who thinks the GOP is the better choice. But he regularly admits that the republicans make mistakes, some major. His tone re Trump has certainly moderated as Trump shoots his mouth off.

You seem to think you are not fringe.

I have yet to hear you admit that Biden is a problem and that you regret that he was the Democrat candidate for President yet.

"agitprop" Thanks for the new word in my vocabulary, but not sure how to pronounce it. I looked it up though.

Obviously, I am vigorously promoting ideas. What is this forum for if not that? It's also a place to learn somethings if one is so inclined. Mostly though, I learn somethings by researching opposition to the BS I read herein. Thanks for giving me the op to learn by researching the flip-side reality to your posts.

If you don't know a single conservative who wants a strongman dictator, then your circle of acquaintance is narrow, and besides, there's a lot happening. You are not paying attention. One of your favorite things, besides head-in-the-sand equivalence, is to re-class something -- like calling Trumpsters non-conservatives. I suppose you call proud boyz and oath keepers non-conservatives. You can dream that you and people like Lane are salt-of-the-earth and these "others" who have co-opted/hijacked the GOP don't count somehow. I want you to know that the used-to-be real conservatives, such as Cheney and others have been voted out of office, and the GOPer never-trumpers are a clue that moderate conservatives are fringe.

IMO, you and people like Lane are in a special class of fringe. Lane is an activist, but still. The special class I'm talking about is caught between the real power players of the GOP, the oligarchs, and the masses. You (plural) have money and influence, more than most, but you're still fringe in the big picture of the GOP

BTW, I hardly never take anything political these days with joy, and I'm not fringe, and I don't like it that Biden is our best choice, mostly because he's not a Fascist.

If anything like "joy" happened, for me and millions of others, it wasn't so much that Biden won, but that Trump lost.

And, my friend, if you think he (Trump) won't lose again, hopefully you are mistaken, and he'll bring down the GOP with him. The next election for POTUS, if he wins the nomination, and remains eligible, will be all about him and his fascist ways and his fascist fodder.

Given that Bannon's 20,000 shock troops plan has at least been partially done, and election deniers have been placed at the state and local levels, it is possible that Trump could steal the win, and at the least we'll have to go through the lies and BS of election fraud all over again and again.

Stop and think about who is causing all that? It ain't the democrats. It ain't RINO's except by default, because you refuse to own what's happening with the GOP.

So much for you RINOs having a say in it all.

One hope we still have is Liz Cheney. I hope she can keep her promise to deny Trump the WH again, whatever it takes, legally. Another hope is that her vow extends to DeSantis too, or at least has a collateral effect.

For Petes sake Kabob, you are re-classing fascism, and you are complaining about Doc!?
Millions of voters from either extreme, when scattered over the US has little impact.
I dont scare as easy as you do.
I am still hoping they can pin enough on Trump to knock him out of the election. Get the media to stop running trump/biden 24/7 and let the people see who is really a worthwhile option.