https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4a5cbf562bf5dbe62470

Meanwhile the GOP is trying hard to help crooks like him skate.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/mone...4c7e9125f4fc42ff9dce

quote:

'Not so rich or smart': New York paper roasts Trump's tax secrets in scathing editorial

Trump is human trash.... Having said that, what’s up with the title of the article?

Trump’s net worth is something like 3 billion. Yes, he is trash, and a dirty businessman, but to say that he’s “not so rich”? Give me a break.

You have no idea whether or not he's worth a dime. How deep is he leveraged? He claimed to be worth 10 billion. He's such a liar nobody knows. There is a reason why he tried so hard to keep it all under wraps.

I too hate the man, Wymple. But not enough to delude myself into believing that he is “not so rich”.

And I’m not surprised that he lied about his wealth. He seems to always exaggerate/lie when talking about how great he is.

Gloating over his “lack of wealth” is unbecoming, if not downright silly.

If only some members of this 20 were mollified by Trump asking them to join in on the vote for McCarthy, doesn’t that speak to the rather minimal influence Trump has with the current GOP?

I agree that the system worked. We have a speaker. I also agree that it does not speak that well of McCarthy’s leadership that he didn’t have this all nailed down ahead of time.

Of course, this is due to how divided the electorate is at present.

We will see if the house will have crossover voting or if we continue this party line stuff. However, I’m not holding my breath.

The last holdouts broke when President Trump got them to agree to vote present. That lowered the threshold from 218 allowing McCarthy to get over.

When Trump of all people recognizes a politically dumb move, you really need to wonder about the folks making it.

Wow,

When I hear such coherent thought from the likes of JBrown, Wymple and company, I'm really likely to change my mind and think we ought to let the village idiots {Democrats} run the country.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Wow,

When I hear such coherent thought from the likes of JBrown, Wymple and company, I'm really likely to change my mind and think we ought to let the village idiots {Democrats} run the country.

Humor us please.

In the past twenty years, how many GOP governments have you had?

What did they do that was good for the people?

Remind me again, the narrative, JBrown, The GOP is NOT a fascist movement:



https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4167afcd16e9ad1a2566

It's not just Trump: A sobering new report chronicles the extensive GOP war on democracy
Story by Amanda Marcotte • Yesterday 6:00 AM

As elections lawyer and Democracy Docket founder Marc Elias pointed out in his blog post on the report, there was nothing inevitable about this surge of Republican lawsuits attempting to disenfranchise voters. Trump wasn't on the ticket or actively orchestrating another coup effort. Nor were there temporary changes to voting laws that were the pretext for so many lawsuits during the COVID-19 pandemic.

There's only one explanation, he argues, for this deluge: "Republicans found themselves unable to persuade a majority of the electorate to support their candidates. This sparked a conviction among many on the right that their best hope to win elections rested on restricting who can vote and shaping the electorate."

Political scientist Scott Lemieux concurs. At his blog Lawyers, Guns & Money, Lemieux titled a recent post, "Republicans Trend Towards Authoritarianism Because What They Want To Do Is Massively Unpopular." In it, he notes "the core goal shared by all factions of the Republican conference is to gut Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security" — all ideas that are notorious losers at the ballot box. Unable to persuade voters to back their policy preferences, he argues, Republicans are increasingly looking for ways to enact their agenda outside of democratic means.

House GOP sets its top priority: Covering up for Donald Trump's crime spree
"Democracy is a methodology of government that has failed as miserably as socialism," declared Republican John Fuller, a Montana state representative, in an op-ed for the Flathead Beacon in February last year. He goes on to compare American democracy to the "tyranny of King George" and argues that "democracy is two wolves and a sheep discussing what's for dinner."

Fuller is especially outspoken, but his views sit comfortably with the rest of the GOP. This week, Abe Streep at the New York Times Magazine takes a deep dive into how Montana politics have been captured, through Republican leadership, by Christian nationalists who wish to impose their views by fiat. The Republican governor, Greg Gianforte, belongs "to a church in Bozeman adhering to a literal interpretation of the Bible that rejects evolution and considers homosexuality a sin," which hosts a men's group that features readings about the alleged evils of anti-racism.

Montana is one state with a small population, but, Streep argues, it's an important data point. Montana, he writes, "has long been one of the most politically independent states in the union," with a Republican party that tended to exhibit a more libertarian bent. But in recent years, "the dominant voice is that of the far right."

This has also been on display in the U.S. Congress, where the slim Republican majority in the House has embraced a slate of demands from the far right, many of which are geared toward stopping investigations that might reveal any conspiracies that helped lead to the events of January 6. House Republicans gutted the Office of Congressional Ethics, which had the power to look into accusations that Republican members of Congress were involved in Trump's attempted coup. They've also started a subcommittee called "Weaponization of the Federal Government," which Republicans say is necessary to stop federal law enforcement overreach. Critics, however, point out that the main targets appear to be any federal officials who are investigating the January 6 attacks and other right wing efforts to intimidate elected officials or government employees.

Last week, supporters of defeated far-right former president Jair Bolsonaro rioted in Brazil, for the apparent purpose of overthrowing the current leftist president in favor of the hard-right Bolsonaro. While much of the media speaks only of how this attack "echoes" that of January 6, more in-depth reporting has exposed the many links between Trump and Bolsonaro. Trump's former advisor Steve Bannon, for instance, was involved in both the "command center" efforts of the attempted Trump coup in 2020 and has reportedly been advising the Bolsonaro family for months. He and other Trump allies have been openly cheering on the Brazilian insurrection and spreading lies about a "stolen" election to justify it.

In December, Trump posted a statement calling for the "termination" of the Constitution so he could be restored to the White House. Since then, most Republican leaders have been silent about Trump's views while continuing to celebrate him. After winning the Speakership over the weekend, Rep. Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., declared, "I do want to especially thank President Trump." January 6 failed to get Trump the illegal hold on power he demanded, but he continues to dominate the Republican party.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...491bb61ba9961c173337

Kevin McCarthy's Promise Could Backfire Spectacularly for Republicans
Story by Ewan Palmer • 2h ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...491bb61ba9961c173337

'He's a terrorist -- his wife hates Trump!' Former president spits new venom at special counsel
Story by Brad Reed • Yesterday 8:07 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...491bb61ba9961c173337

Trump: Special Counsel Jack Smith might ‘turn out to be a criminal’
Story by Steve Benen • Yesterday 11:20 AM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...491bb61ba9961c173337

McCarthy made an agreement to release all J6 security cam footage to win the Speaker vote: Matt Gaetz
Story by Matthew Chapman • Yesterday 9:10 PM

https://www.bing.com/search?q=...491bb61ba9961c173337

Proud Boyz leader throws Trump and pals under bus.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4aafbd6ef086793d0ecd

Trump Organization sentenced to maximum fine following tax fraud conviction
30m ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4e55ae5105ab88e3b302

'He certainly did': Twitter mocks Trump for saying he showed America how 'corrupt our government is'
Story by Maya Boddie • 1h ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4e55ae5105ab88e3b302

Columnist details how Democrats can use the Jim Jordan investigatory committee against the GOP
Story by Sarah K. Burris • Yesterday 4:23 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4e55ae5105ab88e3b302

McCarthy: Removing Schiff and Swalwell from committee is 'what we're supposed to do'
Story by Brady Knox • 1h ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...47a4bfde1adcce94287e

GOP claims it's creating a new Church Committee: The real historical parallel is Joe McCarthy
Story by Heather Digby Parton • 1h ago

When ever I see either side use the word fascist to describe the other party, I throw the whole post aside.
If you know what fascism really is, you could not point to either party without a smirk involved, and say 'fascist".

How do you feel about the word "Communist" to describe Democrats?

prefer Marxist actually

More BS Roland, people throw words around helter skelter without knowing what they truly mean.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
When ever I see either side use the word fascist to describe the other party, I throw the whole post aside.
If you know what fascism really is, you could not point to either party without a smirk involved, and say 'fascist".

I'm not throwing words around nor take the accusation lightly.

You can BS us/me all you want, and deny all you want.

I know EXACTLY what fascism is.

The GOP and GOPers demonstrate the transition very well.

The problem is that many simply don't want to see it and acknowledgment of it would require some look at your own worldview.

I know that there are some good republicans, but sometimes I think the good ones are in denial about the bad and the ugly, and somehow think they, the good ones, represent the party.

You do not represent the party or Trump wouldn't still own the party.

Mangina.....as usual you simply don't have a flippin clue.....

If someone doesn't think it up for you.....you are lost....your only opinion is....well....cut and paste....poor old fool.

It makes no difference with you, in particular, and TB40 too, if I state my opinions with no backup whatsoever, like you do, as compared to stating my opinion with the best backup/sources I can find. You bitch either way.

I don't like offending good republicans, but since I don't consider you good nor a real republican, the offense is aimed at you. However, I realize you can't be offended. You are numb to it, insulated by ideology and ignorance, but I'll aim anyway.

So, I'll continue.

There are many good articles on the topic of how the GOP has morphed into many similarities with fascism.

https://www.reuters.com/world/...use-says-2022-08-26/

MAGA Republican actions fit 'definition of fascism,' White House says

https://www.theatlantic.com/ne...r-of-fascism/671289/

Fear of Fascism
We’re hesitant to use the word, and for good reason.

https://www.theglobalist.com/u...irting-with-fascism/

U.S. Republicans: Flirting With Fascism

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/...-long-trump-n1253970

The GOP was sowing seeds of fascism and violence long before Trump
If you think that these violent elements of Trump’s base will leave with him, you haven’t been paying attention.

Well since I don't consider you a real or good human being, just a pathetic old fool,.....you can't offend me mangina, kabooby...or whoever you're trying to be today.....


.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
Well since I don't consider you a real or good human being,


.

One of the first signs of fascist fodder is hate and utter disrespect (dehumanizing) for fellow citizens of and because of different worldviews.

If anything, my despise for you is because I think you are fascist fodder, and thus deplorable but human, nonetheless.

Kabob, you have no idea what fascism is.
There are elements promoted by some on the right AND parts by some on the left. Neither party adopts the package that actually makes up what fascism is. Your OPINION is just plain wrong.

Then you tell me in your opinion what fascism is and how the GOP, under Trumpism, has no similarity to fascism.

I'm listening. If you are so sure that I have no idea, then you must think you do. So I want to read/hear not only your idea but why you think I don't know what I'm talking about.

Just saying I don't know is not good enough, just like stating your opinions with no - zero - backup is not good enough.

I suspect that because it's obvious that you think your unsupported opinions are plenty good enough for you to be taken seriously, and to discredit me is likewise.

Go ahead, make my day.

And BTW: "Neither party adopts the package that actually makes up what fascism is."

I didn't say they did. That's not the trajectory or transition or process of fascism. It's the end result. The philosophy or deployment of the end justifies the means is the path to fascism. That's what is on full display with GOPers, and has been for some time and has intensified.

Read more than wikipedia Kabob.
Fascism goes back to the 19 th century, but most people start with Italy and Mussolini.
Mussolini's started MOL in 1927 with his fascist party.
Made up of 75% lower middleclass, 15% working class, 10% elites. Not exactly Repub 1% ers.
All the college level world history books call fascism.
" A notoriously difficult Ideology to define"
I dont cut and paste Kabob, but pick up some PHD level History books on the subject. Thats what I read for my info.
I never said parts of the hard right, doesnt follow elements of fascism. But, I dont agree with people calling the far left of the Dem party fascists either. And there are elements of fascism that are far left. Go back to "hard to define" comment by many experts in the field.
Throw the word around all you want, it only works for ignorant people who dont want to know what true fascism is.

I just found one of my books you can look for.
Fascism and Communism
by Francois Furet.
A frenchman, born at about the time of Mussolini's rise. A far better review then what you get from historians on this side of the pond.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
It makes no difference with you, in particular, and TB40 too, if I state my opinions with no backup whatsoever, like you do, as compared to stating my opinion with the best backup/sources I can find. You bitch either way.

I don't like offending good republicans, but since I don't consider you good nor a real republican, the offense is aimed at you. However, I realize you can't be offended. You are numb to it, insulated by ideology and ignorance, but I'll aim anyway.

So, I'll continue.

There are many good articles on the topic of how the GOP has morphed into many similarities with fascism.

https://www.reuters.com/world/...use-says-2022-08-26/

MAGA Republican actions fit 'definition of fascism,' White House says

https://www.theatlantic.com/ne...r-of-fascism/671289/

Fear of Fascism
We’re hesitant to use the word, and for good reason.

https://www.theglobalist.com/u...irting-with-fascism/

U.S. Republicans: Flirting With Fascism

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/...-long-trump-n1253970

The GOP was sowing seeds of fascism and violence long before Trump
If you think that these violent elements of Trump’s base will leave with him, you haven’t been paying attention.

As a point of interest trump NEVER backed up ANY of his assertions or accusations.

If so, please define it in a paragraph without utilizing cut and paste or links.

Personally, I don't think you know what fascism is... you know what you feel it is.

That is different.

And yes, a number of folks around here throw terms like communist and marxist around somewhat willy-nilly.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
When ever I see either side use the word fascist to describe the other party, I throw the whole post aside.
If you know what fascism really is, you could not point to either party without a smirk involved, and say 'fascist".

I'm not throwing words around nor take the accusation lightly.

You can BS us/me all you want, and deny all you want.

I know EXACTLY what fascism is.

The GOP and GOPers demonstrate the transition very well.

The problem is that many simply don't want to see it and acknowledgment of it would require some look at your own worldview.

I know that there are some good republicans, but sometimes I think the good ones are in denial about the bad and the ugly, and somehow think they, the good ones, represent the party.

You do not represent the party or Trump wouldn't still own the party.

Soros, has as many fascist traits as Trump, but I wouldnt call him one either. It just doesnt fill the term.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If only some members of this 20 were mollified by Trump asking them to join in on the vote for McCarthy, doesn’t that speak to the rather minimal influence Trump has with the current GOP?

I agree that the system worked. We have a speaker. I also agree that it does not speak that well of McCarthy’s leadership that he didn’t have this all nailed down ahead of time.

Of course, this is due to how divided the electorate is at present.

We will see if the house will have crossover voting or if we continue this party line stuff. However, I’m not holding my breath.

Wasn't due to the electorate. It was due to Matt Gaetz and the other 20 or members of his clown car posse saying "look at me!!!!"

Why isn't he in jail anyway? What happened to the Cuban houseboy he was boffing? Paid him off, I guess?

I remember the 17 yr old cuban girl he was investigated for. was there a boy too?
I would bet there was a payoff, or payoffs involved.

It was due to how divided the electorate was.

Usually one side or the other has enough of a majority that less than 10% of the majority party can’t hijack the selection.

When the majority is slim, you see this kind of thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If only some members of this 20 were mollified by Trump asking them to join in on the vote for McCarthy, doesn’t that speak to the rather minimal influence Trump has with the current GOP?

I agree that the system worked. We have a speaker. I also agree that it does not speak that well of McCarthy’s leadership that he didn’t have this all nailed down ahead of time.

Of course, this is due to how divided the electorate is at present.

We will see if the house will have crossover voting or if we continue this party line stuff. However, I’m not holding my breath.

Wasn't due to the electorate. It was due to Matt Gaetz and the other 20 or members of his clown car posse saying "look at me!!!!"

Why isn't he in jail anyway? What happened to the Cuban houseboy he was boffing? Paid him off, I guess?

The slimmest of the majority should tell thinking people being far right stupid does not sell.

However, we are dealing with full in stupid people. Hell bent in making sure they loose that 5 bore majority.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If so, please define it in a paragraph without utilizing cut and paste or links.

Personally, I don't think you know what fascism is... you know what you feel it is.

That is different.

No, I won't do that, in part because my words won't be sufficient. Fascism in definition and reality is too complex for me. In part that's because it's usually taken in the context of the past. We're dealing with it in the present, as it has morphed.

Deeming the recent trends of the Right to be fascist-like is controversial. I just find one side of the argument more convincing than others, in large part based on evidence.

However, there are those who can use the right words, and who know what they are talking about, have perspective on history and present, and have credibility.

So, argue with them. Practically all the content of these articles are sourced, just in case you want to argue with them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...legations_of_fascism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fascism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...ions_of_Donald_Trump

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...right_(United_States)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trumpism

Trumpism is a term for the political ideologies, social emotions, style of governance,[7] political movement, and set of mechanisms for acquiring and keeping control of power associated with Donald Trump and his political base.[8][9] Trumpists and Trumpian are terms used to refer to those exhibiting characteristics of Trumpism, whereas political supporters of Trump are known as Trumpers.

The precise composition of Trumpism is contentious and is sufficiently complex to overwhelm any single framework of analysis; [10] it has been called an American political variant of the far-right,[11][12] and the national-populist and neo-nationalist sentiment seen in multiple nations worldwide from the late 2010s[13] to the early 2020s. Though not strictly limited to any one party, Trump supporters became a significant faction of the Republican Party in the United States, with the remainder often characterized as "establishment" in contrast. Some Republicans became members of the Never Trump movement, with several leaving the party in protest of Trump's ascendancy.

Some commentators have rejected the populist designation for Trumpism and view it instead as part of a trend towards a new form of fascism or neo-fascism, with some referring to it as explicitly fascist and others as authoritarian and illiberal.[14][26][note 3] Others have more mildly identified it as a specific lite version of fascism in the United States.[30][31] Some historians, including many of those using a new fascism classification,[note 4] write of the hazards of direct comparisons with European fascist regimes of the 1930s, stating that while there are parallels, there are also important dissimilarities.[33][34][note 5]

Again Kabob, you are using wiki.
I have actually sourced a number of those links. They turn out to be one line on one page, sometimes of just an opinion. Wiki then mashes them all together to make their page.
I even sent them a message about it, taking parts out of context to form a wikipage.
They did respond. It was something to the effect that wiki is just a reference, and the whole subject like many is far more in depth than they can condense.
Mussolini wrote, in depth about fascism. Sent many papers to Hitler, most of which have survived.
For some reason, as Americans, we want history to be simple, especially complicated things as European history is. Read Furet, who worked off the original papers. You dont get to change the meaning of Fascism , just because you like it better your way.

Fascism changes the meanings of itself.

It's up to us to keep up, or deny.

But, there are basic traits of it that can be used as a starting place.

Most of those basic traits are present in some degree with what's happened/happening with Trumpism and beyond.

And BTW, I will not stop using WIKI or other sources just because you or others bitch about it.

And I will not allow you to corner me in an argument by reducing it to just my unfounded say-so against yours. You will not dictate the terms of argument to me.

You can point out that I cut and Paste, which is basically sourcing and foundation.

And I'll just keep on pointing out that you have no source or foundation other than in your head, unless you tell us about it.

And BTW, I have invited you to read some of the articles I post. You refuse.

Articles such as this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trumpism

Regardless of whether the sources are dead-ends, or utterly valid, there are multitudes of assertions therein stated as fact, truth, reality, etc. but never what is classified as conspiracy theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...ory#Lack_of_evidence

I invite you to argue with those assertions - one by one, and offer your alt-reality.

First,
I have said there are traits from the left and right, that were in parts of fascism.
Second, I told you where to get the information, I'm not going on say so.
You told us, you knew what fascism is, you show you do not.
Call it Trumpism, then it can be what ever you decide you want it to mean. Fascism already has a defined meaning.

I again posit that you feel the right is Fascist.

Its all about your feelings.

Anyone can go out and find echo chamber sources.

There is a good reason that most universities and such will not accept citations of Wikipedia.

As to going out and getting sources, doing so hasn't changed your position once yet... at best it has gotten you to say "I will think about that." and then come back with the same old nonsense citing the usual lefty echo chamber sources... the same way you discredit the right wing sources.

Its at the point were some of us respond just to make sure that the nonresponding part of the audience know that folks don't agree with your statement... because we do know that you can't be convinced that your position is incorrect by sources.

You are exactly what you claim your opponents are... an ideologue.

In an above post, Kabob claimed he knew "exactly" what fascism was. Now it has changed. Now it's elements on the far right has traits of fascism.
Then we are suppose to read about conspiracies.
Lets deflect some more and see if I can throw people off what I said.
"Exactly" means he should have no problem defining fascism, which was what the argument was.

Well, there are a lot of people (millions) who agree with me.

And sure, I do not seek out sources who say Trump or Trumpism is not fascist or fascism.

I think they are liars, complicit and appeasement, deniers and dangerous.

Full fascists movements are always on the Right.

Some in history may have started on the left, but they were liars and shifted far right later.

Anyway, here's an article that was published before 1/6/21. What N. Albright said is even more relevant after the subsequent turn of events.

I think it's a safe bet that she knew "exactly" what fascism is So, I'll listen to her views as opposed to whitewashers.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-is-fascism/


U.S.
What is fascism? And what does it mean in 2020 America?
BY LESLIE GORNSTEIN

OCTOBER 20, 2020 / 11:18 AM / CBS NEWS

OTOH, here's the youtube version of the same interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UHRXN8bPPw

Note the responses below the video. Did I mention controversial?

And you criticize me for not giving a definition in my own words.

You are dismissing the people who grew up when fascism was fresh, and wrote about exactly what it was from original sources. as liars and deniers.? Wow, you really are lost in your own reality.