A fund raising video shot at the courthouse in NYC where a former President is on trial for a felony. Not sure you can ever wash the Trump stink off of the GOP at this point. You really have to wonder about the intelligence of anyone that would respond to such a fundraising appeal. Really.

Trump and Pals Appeal for Money

quote:

Just when you think the GOP cannot sink any lower . . .

I haven't had that thought in a while. That threshold was trashed long ago. Now I can't even remember ever thinking that.

We really don't know where the bottom is for GOPers. It's so deep it defies imagination in reasonable people, left and right and the middle.

We read signs of it herein, some explicit, like our Texan friends, some complicit, like our favorite doc.

Even if we can imagine the worst; Trump winning a second term, and the regime going full fascist, we are still dumbfounded somehow.

It can't happen here? Well, it is happening and Fox is the MAGAhorn.

I bet it is a successful appeal.

This case will stand as an example of “lawfare” for centuries to come.

quote:

This case will stand as an example of “lawfare” for centuries to come.

In your dreams and Fox's too.

If I had but one thing to wish for in the political arena, it would be that you, as a representative, are on the wrong side of history.

If the old saying that winners write history, then that means in the future, Trump, MAGA, Trumpism will be correctly recorded for posterity to ponder, for whatever it's worth.

Consider ALL MAGA posterity now, having full advantage and knowledge of history written by winners. What worth is that? You are already on the wrong side of history.

I get some satisfaction knowing that, but it's not enough. You are still spewing BS, Trump is still a valid threat.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

This case will stand as an example of “lawfare” for centuries to come.

In your dreams and Fox's too.

If I had but one thing to wish for in the political arena, it would be that you, as a representative, are on the wrong side of history.

If the old saying that winners write history, then that means in the future, Trump, MAGA, Trumpism will be correctly recorded for posterity to ponder, for whatever it's worth.

Consider ALL MAGA posterity now, having full advantage and knowledge of history written by winners. What worth is that? You are already on the wrong side of history.

I get some satisfaction knowing that, but it's not enough. You are still spewing BS, Trump is still a valid threat.

The odds are right now that Trump wins the Presidency.

Having a hard time understanding what you actually mean with this post.

I am sure the Court will take judicial notice and instruct the jury as to Real clear Politics.

You might as well cite Mad Magazine.

What does that^^^have to do with winning the election?

It means it has no baring on his legal jeopardy that directly correlates to his political jeopardy.

The legal system does not care about polls.

Lets play the what if game.

1. what if at the end of the trial Trump is found guilty of one or more felonies.

2. Sentencing for number 1 happens sometime in July/August. Trump gets 2 or 3 years time and appeals.

3. Appeals are denied in the October/November time frame and Trump does indeed go to jail.


Now for the question. With Trump in jail just before the election do you vote for him? I know the true Trump people will dismiss this and say that 1,2 and 3 will never happen but play along with what if game. Would you as a true Trumpeter still vote for a convicted felon sitting in jail? Also if in the wild what if game if Trump did by chance win how would he run the country from jail?

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
It means it has no baring on his legal jeopardy that directly correlates to his political jeopardy.

The legal system does not care about polls.

Please show me where I said it did.

Conviction is however factored into the odds that he wins the POTUS election…which was my point.

Actually it would be a pretty damning indictment of our electorate if the felony conviction for fraud of a major party presidential candidate did not influence how some folks vote in the election. If ever there was evidence of a "cult like mentality" that would be it.

Be it what it may…it is a fact.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
It means it has no baring on his legal jeopardy that directly correlates to his political jeopardy.

The legal system does not care about polls.

Please show me where I said it did.

Conviction is however factored into the odds that he wins the POTUS election…which was my point.

Did not say you did.

Your poll simply does not matter.

It is not just fraud. It is fraud designed to advance a political campaign.

No one answered last time I asked.
But to the lawyers.
Is Trumps current trial the same as John Edwards, in relation to charges?

Edwards was acquitted, but that acquittal does not affect the case as this jury is free to make inverse reasonable inferences from the evidence.

Edwards charges were similar, but not the same being one count of conspiracy to violate the federal campaign finance laws and to make false statements to the Federal Election Commission (FEC); four counts of accepting and receiving illegal campaign contributions from two donors in 2007 and 2008; and one count of concealing those illegal donations from the FEC.

The above is directly from Edwards’ indictment.

Edwards charges were based solely on Fed law.

President Trump’s charges are based on MY reporting laws that amounted to an illegal campaign contribution under NY law.

Here is the NY indictment concerning President Trump.

https://manhattanda.org/wp-con...Trump-Indictment.pdf

I also have a summary from the DA’s Office if anyone wants it.

Here is Edward’s indictment if one wants to read and contrast. The major difference is NY and President Trump is based on NY state law. Edwards is anchored in Fed law. They both address similar behavior.


https://www.justice.gov/sites/...wards-indictment.pdf

Under NY Penal Law Section 175.10, a person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when, with intent to defraud that includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof, that person:

- makes or causes a false entry in the business records of an enterprise; or

- alters, erases, obliterates, deletes, removes or destroys a true entry in the business records of an enterprise; or

- omits to make a true entry in the business records of an enterprise in violation of a duty to do so which he or she knows to be imposed upon him or her by law or by the nature of his or her position; or

- prevents the making of a true entry or causes the omission thereof in the business records of an enterprise.

In Trump’s case the other crime is alleged to be intent to violate federal election law, intent to violate New York election law or intent to violate tax law.

. . . but we know none of that means a damn thing to the Trumplicans, paying off your porn star paramour to shut her up and recording it falsely as a legal expense to try to avoid an election melt down is all hunky dory.

Thanks guys, what I wanted to know.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

This case will stand as an example of “lawfare” for centuries to come.

In your dreams and Fox's too.

If I had but one thing to wish for in the political arena, it would be that you, as a representative, are on the wrong side of history.

If the old saying that winners write history, then that means in the future, Trump, MAGA, Trumpism will be correctly recorded for posterity to ponder, for whatever it's worth.

Consider ALL MAGA posterity now, having full advantage and knowledge of history written by winners. What worth is that? You are already on the wrong side of history.

I get some satisfaction knowing that, but it's not enough. You are still spewing BS, Trump is still a valid threat.

The odds are right now that Trump wins the Presidency.

Having a hard time understanding what you actually mean with this post.

What I actually mean?

Suppose you are right, and Trump wins all, court cases and including the office of POTUS.

Not for an instant will that mean you are correct in all or any of your views. IMO you nor MAGA will be validated. It means we're fucked. It's the slippery slope run amuck.

I'll just keep a low profile and hope for the best. But of course, hope is not a strategy.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
It means it has no baring on his legal jeopardy that directly correlates to his political jeopardy.

The legal system does not care about polls.

Please show me where I said it did.

Conviction is however factored into the odds that he wins the POTUS election…which was my point.

Did not say you did.

Your poll simply does not matter.

It is not just fraud. It is fraud designed to advance a political campaign.

It were capable of capturing context…you would understand it mattered a lot in my post.

I was merely pointing out to ME that it is a better than even chance that Trump wins regardless of the outcome of that NY trial. It had nothing to do with the tangent you are taking it on. You are like having a conversation with a 6 year old.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

This case will stand as an example of “lawfare” for centuries to come.

In your dreams and Fox's too.

If I had but one thing to wish for in the political arena, it would be that you, as a representative, are on the wrong side of history.

If the old saying that winners write history, then that means in the future, Trump, MAGA, Trumpism will be correctly recorded for posterity to ponder, for whatever it's worth.

Consider ALL MAGA posterity now, having full advantage and knowledge of history written by winners. What worth is that? You are already on the wrong side of history.

I get some satisfaction knowing that, but it's not enough. You are still spewing BS, Trump is still a valid threat.

The odds are right now that Trump wins the Presidency.

Having a hard time understanding what you actually mean with this post.

What I actually mean?

Suppose you are right, and Trump wins all, court cases and including the office of POTUS.

Not for an instant will that mean you are correct in all or any of your views. IMO you nor MAGA will be validated. It means we're fucked. It's the slippery slope run amuck.

I'll just keep a low profile and hope for the best. But of course, hope is not a strategy.

And you know what opinions are likened too.

Your polls is a glorified opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

This case will stand as an example of “lawfare” for centuries to come.

In your dreams and Fox's too.

If I had but one thing to wish for in the political arena, it would be that you, as a representative, are on the wrong side of history.

If the old saying that winners write history, then that means in the future, Trump, MAGA, Trumpism will be correctly recorded for posterity to ponder, for whatever it's worth.

Consider ALL MAGA posterity now, having full advantage and knowledge of history written by winners. What worth is that? You are already on the wrong side of history.

I get some satisfaction knowing that, but it's not enough. You are still spewing BS, Trump is still a valid threat.

The odds are right now that Trump wins the Presidency.

Having a hard time understanding what you actually mean with this post.

Actually, virtually all of the polling shows it to be a statistical dead heat right now.

https://projects.fivethirtyeig...sident-general/2024/

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

This case will stand as an example of “lawfare” for centuries to come.

In your dreams and Fox's too.

If I had but one thing to wish for in the political arena, it would be that you, as a representative, are on the wrong side of history.

If the old saying that winners write history, then that means in the future, Trump, MAGA, Trumpism will be correctly recorded for posterity to ponder, for whatever it's worth.

Consider ALL MAGA posterity now, having full advantage and knowledge of history written by winners. What worth is that? You are already on the wrong side of history.

I get some satisfaction knowing that, but it's not enough. You are still spewing BS, Trump is still a valid threat.

The odds are right now that Trump wins the Presidency.

Having a hard time understanding what you actually mean with this post.

Actually, virtually all of the polling shows it to be a statistical dead heat right now.

https://projects.fivethirtyeig...sident-general/2024/

I think the battleground states are looking pretty Red right now and the betting odds are on Trump — not heavily but still on Trump and they factor in a conviction.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

This case will stand as an example of “lawfare” for centuries to come.

In your dreams and Fox's too.

If I had but one thing to wish for in the political arena, it would be that you, as a representative, are on the wrong side of history.

If the old saying that winners write history, then that means in the future, Trump, MAGA, Trumpism will be correctly recorded for posterity to ponder, for whatever it's worth.

Consider ALL MAGA posterity now, having full advantage and knowledge of history written by winners. What worth is that? You are already on the wrong side of history.

I get some satisfaction knowing that, but it's not enough. You are still spewing BS, Trump is still a valid threat.

The odds are right now that Trump wins the Presidency.

Having a hard time understanding what you actually mean with this post.

Actually, virtually all of the polling shows it to be a statistical dead heat right now.

https://projects.fivethirtyeig...sident-general/2024/

I think the battleground states are looking pretty Red right now and the betting odds are on Trump — not heavily but still on Trump and they factor in a conviction.

"Having a hard time understanding what you actually mean with this post."

By using the term "Wrong side of history" I mean that Trump/Trumpism is something the Founders predicted and worried about and wrote about populism/demagoguery/authoritarianism in the Federalist Papers, etc. That means that they would be appalled by Trump/Trumpism. Does that make them loathsome liberals? Or, instead, does that make Trumpism illiberal?

The FACT that Trump is viable as a GOP presumptive nominee and has broad support, and all the lies and buy-in that got him there and sustains him, is not a linier trajectory of the Founding Principles - quite the deviation instead.

So, that's the trajectory of history I'm talking about.

And from that^^^you confirm for the umpteen thousandth time that you have NO grasp of the thought processes of the Founding Fathers.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
And from that^^^you confirm for the umpteen thousandth time that you have NO grasp of the thought processes of the Founding Fathers.

But, you have keen insight.

FUND RAISING?

Open CORRUPTION!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
And from that^^^you confirm for the umpteen thousandth time that you have NO grasp of the thought processes of the Founding Fathers.

I can read the Federalist Papers, and:

“Those then, who resist a confirmation of public order, are the true Artificers of monarchy—not that this is the intention of the generality of them. Yet it would not be difficult to lay the finger upon some of their party who may justly be suspected. When a man unprincipled in private life desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, possessed of considerable talents, having the advantage of military habits—despotic in his ordinary demeanour—known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty—when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity—to join in the cry of danger to liberty—to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion—to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day—It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may “ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.”
― Alexander Hamilton

https://wapo.st/4bEG0Lr

The Constitution was designed to weed out demagogues. Now it encourages them.
By Andrew Sabl
January 28, 2016

https://wapo.st/44S0n5W

The Founders’ antidote to demagoguery is a lesson for today
By Jeffrey Rosen
February 20, 2024

(excerpt)

Thomas Jefferson agreed with Hamilton about very little, except for the danger of populist demagogues. After he read a draft of the Constitution, his main concern was that an unscrupulous candidate in the distant future might lose an election and refuse to leave office. “If once elected, and at a second or third election outvoted by one or two votes, he will pretend false votes, foul play, hold possession of the reins of government, be supported by the States voting for him,” Jefferson wrote to James Madison in 1787.

In the Founders’ view, the only thing standing between America and an authoritarian demagogue was the virtuous self-control of citizens who would find the wisdom to choose virtuous leaders. “I go on this great republican principle, that the people will have virtue and intelligence to select men of virtue and wisdom,” Madison said at the Constitutional Convention. “Is there no virtue among us? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks — no form of government can render us secure.”

When the Founders talked about the need for virtuous citizens and leaders, they were referring to the four classical virtues: prudence, temperance, fortitude and justice. (By contrast, the three theological virtues are faith, hope and charity.) Following the classical and Enlightenment moral philosophers, the Founders believed that personal self-government was necessary for political self-government. In their view, the key to a healthy republic begins with how we address our own flaws and commit to becoming better citizens over time.

=================================

https://time.com/4575119/elect...-college-demagogues/


The Electoral College Was Created to Stop Demagogues Like Trump

NOVEMBER 17, 2016