Kash Patel wants UFC to help FBI agents with fitness

28 February 2025, 17:12

Mike Mitchell

Because it wouldn't make sense to use the US Army Rangers or Airborne school instructors or the guys that run BUDS and who are already on the government payroll.....You would use people who beat each others brains out for a living....and, more importantly, you would use people from an organization headed up by a wealthy CEO, Dana White, who helped boost President Donald Trump's reelection.

The shit-show rolls on.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-...s/story?id=119255318

28 February 2025, 17:15

Saeed

And Verizon contract is being canceled.

So Trump’s boy friend can have it!

28 February 2025, 17:16

Jefffive

If Trump is going to import rapists and sex traffickers like the Tates nothing is beyond the pale.

Imagine a U.S. President pressuring another Country to relax travel restrictions on this piece of shit so he can fly to the U.S...

Link

28 February 2025, 17:18

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
If Trump is going to import rapists and sex traffickers like the Tates nothing is beyond the pale.

But but but, he knows nothing about it and will "get back to us."

Lying sack of shit.

https://www.the-independent.co...lorida-b2706379.html

28 February 2025, 17:22

Jefffive

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
If Trump is going to import rapists and sex traffickers like the Tates nothing is beyond the pale.

But but but, he knows nothing about it and will "get back to us."

Lying sack of shit.

https://www.the-independent.co...lorida-b2706379.html

Our devout Christians will tell us "It's God's Will", since Trump is such a good Christian...

28 February 2025, 17:32

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
If Trump is going to import rapists and sex traffickers like the Tates nothing is beyond the pale.

Imagine a U.S. President pressuring another Country to relax travel restrictions on this piece of sh!t so he can fly to the U.S...

Link

While I agree with your sentiment, the tates are americans... heck one was even born at Walter Reed

28 February 2025, 17:37

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
If Trump is going to import rapists and sex traffickers like the Tates nothing is beyond the pale.

Imagine a U.S. President pressuring another Country to relax travel restrictions on this piece of sh!t so he can fly to the U.S...

Link

While I agree with your sentiment, the tates are americans... heck one was even born at Walter Reed

The Tates are sex traffickers.

28 February 2025, 18:02

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
If Trump is going to import rapists and sex traffickers like the Tates nothing is beyond the pale.

Imagine a U.S. President pressuring another Country to relax travel restrictions on this piece of sh!t so he can fly to the U.S...

Link

While I agree with your sentiment, the tates are americans... heck one was even born at Walter Reed

The Tates are sex traffickers.

most certainly didn't say otherwise -- but fifi said "import" them -- they are americans, as sad as that is -- i can't stand the guys, and if you barely scratch the surface on their "enterprises" you would be disgusted immediately

28 February 2025, 19:32

LHeym500

I am for it. We did a demo where my boss a Gracie Blue Belt took an officer’s blue gun, and just mauled him trying to arrest my boss.

None better to implement a physical training program, fitness program.

28 February 2025, 19:32

theback40

Mike
after basic hand to hand training early on, we were sent to civilian gyms and dojo to further our skills. Times were booked, or in some cases a civilian instructor would come in for a week at a time.
It is not easy to be a top end instructor. I have a few troubled kids off and on I work with, to help with anger issues. I have to be constantly aware they are not a combatant, and to be a teacher. Not something you can just pull from the ranks. Put a Delta operative in as instructor, and you would have fbi agents with broken bones.
Leave it to the civilian instructors.

28 February 2025, 22:27

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by theback40:
Mike
after basic hand to hand training early on, we were sent to civilian gyms and dojo to further our skills. Times were booked, or in some cases a civilian instructor would come in for a week at a time.
It is not easy to be a top end instructor. I have a few troubled kids off and on I work with, to help with anger issues. I have to be constantly aware they are not a combatant, and to be a teacher. Not something you can just pull from the ranks. Put a Delta operative in as instructor, and you would have fbi agents with broken bones.
Leave it to the civilian instructors.

Yeah, I didn't see anything about improving the agents' hand to hand combat skills, it talks about fitness. I think we have folks in the military like the ones I mentioned who could accomplish that task, probably better than a UFC fighter or Dana White.

28 February 2025, 23:08

jeffeosso

Idk Mike,
I have two blackbelts from different styles... one is good for actually fighting the other is mostly forms and discipline

Having spent the time in planned and practicing for events, in a practical manner (the winner of the knife fight gets to go the hospital) helps one understand the scenario.

28 February 2025, 23:22

theback40

I take fitness to mean, fitness to a good outcome as an agent. If it is about running 2 miles in 20 min. anyone can do that.

28 February 2025, 23:27

LHeym500

I had a knife fighting instructor tell us, “ Knife fighting is like walking in the rain. You are going to get wet.”

28 February 2025, 23:38

jeffeosso

the absolute best defense in a knife fight is to run away

28 February 2025, 23:42

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the absolute best defense in a knife fight is to run away

Well, the best defense in a knife fight is to bring a gun.

28 February 2025, 23:49

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Idk Mike,
I have two blackbelts from different styles... one is good for actually fighting the other is mostly forms and discipline

Having spent the time in planned and practicing for events, in a practical manner (the winner of the knife fight gets to go the hospital) helps one understand the scenario.

TB40, I get what you're saying but FBI agents ain't Navy SEALS....they spend most of their time sitting behind a desk or riding around in vehicles, not fighting with suspects. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly a good idea for them, and all of us, to be fit. I just question whether a UFC fighter is the guy to train them up. Marine, Army and Navy DI's spend their careers getting people physically fit. Ranger school is supposed to be one of the most physically challenging things to complete in any military outfit, world-wide.

And, TBI, it's just another example of the transactional nature of everything in the trump administration...Dana White supported trump and therefore the FBI should be trained by Dana White's organization? It's bullshit.

Quite frankly, I'm guessing that the FBI fitness instructors aren't responding well to Patel's comments.

28 February 2025, 23:51

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the absolute best defense in a knife fight is to run away

Well, the best defense in a knife fight is to bring a gun.

It's a good plan -- but if the knife is out, and they are within 21 feet, you are gunna bleed -- was hanging out with some local sheriff deputies, and they brought this up .. idk, 20-25 years ago .. saying that's how they are trained... i laughed, said prove it, and got a rubber knife in the chest -- and i KNEW it was coming

28 February 2025, 23:54

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the absolute best defense in a knife fight is to run away

Well, the best defense in a knife fight is to bring a gun.

It's a good plan -- but if the knife is out, and they are within 21 feet, you are gunna bleed -- was hanging out with some local sheriff deputies, and they brought this up .. idk, 20-25 years ago .. saying that's how they are trained... i laughed, said prove it, and got a rubber knife in the chest -- and i KNEW it was coming

Yeah, I've seen a lot of discussion about such things....lotta folks will tell you that it takes longer to turn around and start running than it does to draw a weapon and fire. Especially if you train for it. And, I don't know about you, but there aren't a lot of folks I could outrun at this point in my life.

28 February 2025, 23:55

Jayhawker2022

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the absolute best defense in a knife fight is to run away

Well, the best defense in a knife fight is to bring a gun.

How little you know.

Go look up Dennis Tuller and the Tuller drill.

I have participated in several of them with an average of over 20 participants each and the you get students can close a 21’ distance in well under 1.5 seconds and were often to make contact with the training blade before some of the older students could clear their sidearm from concealment.

Your real work knowledge is sadly lacking.

Much like everything else about you.

28 February 2025, 23:56

Thomas "Ty" Beaham

Is a gun the great equalizer?

Yes, and no.

Warning: Graphic.

Las Cruces N.M. PD releases graphic surveillance, body camera footage of officer stabbed to death

.

28 February 2025, 23:57

Jayhawker2022

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the absolute best defense in a knife fight is to run away

Well, the best defense in a knife fight is to bring a gun.

It's a good plan -- but if the knife is out, and they are within 21 feet, you are gunna bleed -- was hanging out with some local sheriff deputies, and they brought this up .. idk, 20-25 years ago .. saying that's how they are trained... i laughed, said prove it, and got a rubber knife in the chest -- and i KNEW it was coming

Yeah, I've seen a lot of discussion about such things....lotta folks will tell you that it takes longer to turn around and start running than it does to draw a weapon and fire. Especially if you train for it. And, I don't know about you, but there aren't a lot of folks I could outrun at this point in my life.

Well here we are I. Agreement.

These days with a pair of wrecked knees I would do more harm and damage to myself by trying to run.

My best bet is deescalatuon and moving on at least until I get get the gun out when it’s to my advantage.

28 February 2025, 23:59

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:
Is a gun the great equalizer?

Yes, and no.

Warning: Graphic.

N.M. PD releases graphic surveillance, body camera footage of officer stabbed to death

.

Shit can go sideways quick, no doubt but....Well, Ty...then why do you carry? And, again, I question whether turning around and running away takes less time than drawing and firing. Especially, if you train for it.

01 March 2025, 00:01

Thomas "Ty" Beaham

Because sometimes you can't run, Mike...

.

01 March 2025, 00:03

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:
Because sometimes you can't run, Mike...

.

Which is exactly my point.

01 March 2025, 00:03

LHeym500

quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the absolute best defense in a knife fight is to run away

Well, the best defense in a knife fight is to bring a gun.

It's a good plan -- but if the knife is out, and they are within 21 feet, you are gunna bleed -- was hanging out with some local sheriff deputies, and they brought this up .. idk, 20-25 years ago .. saying that's how they are trained... i laughed, said prove it, and got a rubber knife in the chest -- and i KNEW it was coming

The studies are a man w a knife out w/in x feet, you are getting cut even when you have a firearm. That is from KSP reporting data and simulators.

01 March 2025, 00:05

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:
Because sometimes you can't run, Mike...

.

And, again...even if you can run...do you think you could outrun some 18 year old standing 21 feet away from you and intent on stabbing you? Do you think you could even turn and start running before getting cut?

01 March 2025, 00:05

LHeym500

Again, mma fighters w great grappling and ground game are the best instructors for law enforcement who are going to get entangled w folks who are not going to comply.

Those skills, drills, and fitness regimen to be able to perform them are very useful to law enforcement. My buddy is a retired pro and he teaches LE here for free because it saves lives.

01 March 2025, 00:06

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the absolute best defense in a knife fight is to run away

Well, the best defense in a knife fight is to bring a gun.

It's a good plan -- but if the knife is out, and they are within 21 feet, you are gunna bleed -- was hanging out with some local sheriff deputies, and they brought this up .. idk, 20-25 years ago .. saying that's how they are trained... i laughed, said prove it, and got a rubber knife in the chest -- and i KNEW it was coming

The studies are a man w a knife out w/in x feet, you are getting cut even when you have a firearm. That is from KSP reporting data and simulators.

Yes, thank you...as I have repeatedly stated, well aware. You are also getting cut if you turn around and run.

01 March 2025, 00:08

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
Again, mma fighters w great grappling and ground game are the best instructors for law enforcement who are going to get entangled w folks who are not going to comply.

Really? And, you rely on what when you state that MMA fighters are the best instructors for law enforcement?

And, again, I would note that the OP doesn't relate to fighting with suspects. It relates to fitness.

So, I guess really, the question is, which MMA fighters are the best instructors for getting physically fit? Not for being physically fit but for teaching other folks to be physically fit. Can we all agree that being an instructor at a law enforcement academy requires more than the ability to beat up somebody else in a cage fight?

01 March 2025, 00:15

Thomas "Ty" Beaham

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:
Because sometimes you can't run, Mike...

.

And, again...even if you can run...do you think you could outrun some 18 year old standing 21 feet away from you and intent on stabbing you? Do you think you could even turn and start running before getting cut?

I hope to never know.

My training includes creating defensive space.

Of course we all know what they say about best laid plans.

.

01 March 2025, 00:20

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:
Because sometimes you can't run, Mike...

.

And, again...even if you can run...do you think you could outrun some 18 year old standing 21 feet away from you and intent on stabbing you? Do you think you could even turn and start running before getting cut?

I hope to never know.

My training includes creating defensive space.

Of course we all know what they say about best laid plans.

.

Understood. I've spent a lot of days at Thunder Ranch being yelled at by Clint Smith about creating that space. Avoiding the confrontation is the best defense. Walk away if you can. But, I don't remember ever receiving any instruction about how once your assailant has pulled a knife, you should forget about drawing your weapon and run away. I guess if you're a 21 year old track star, maybe that makes sense. I'm not.

01 March 2025, 01:02

crbutler

I’m ok with a handgun. On good days I can get a sub second draw from the buzzer…

I’ve done Tueller drills.

I’ve also been assaulted.

Situational awareness is everything. The time I was assaulted I was hit before I realized what was happening. Fortunately the cops pulled him off before it was much more than an embarrassment.

The gun can help, but if you are caught off guard (condition white) you will get hurt regardless.

I do think that UFC fighters can teach a type of fitness that would be good.

There is speed and explosiveness type fitness and then there is endurance fitness.

At the physiological level, fast twitch muscle vs slow twitch.

A FBI agent who can run marathons is fit, but is he able to quickly get out of being grabbed?

All my training with non- gun weapons has shown me is that I need to go to the gun as soon as I sense any weapon… I’m too slow and inept with hand to hand to keep myself from getting hurt badly.

01 March 2025, 01:18

Jayhawker2022

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:
Is a gun the great equalizer?

Yes, and no.

Warning: Graphic.

N.M. PD releases graphic surveillance, body camera footage of officer stabbed to death

.

Shit can go sideways quick, no doubt but....Well, Ty...then why do you carry? And, again, I question whether turning around and running away takes less time than drawing and firing. Especially, if you train for it.

We conducted a lot of experiments with these drills.

Turning and running didn’t work. Bad guy is either still accelerating or at full speed before you even start. Bad guy won about 90% of the time.

Standing and delivering. At best a Pyrrhic victory as the bad guy can still deliver a leather cut despite being shot multiple times.

Getting off the X. Moving to the back of his knife hand sharply and shooting on the move gave the best success. Everyone who tried for a sight picture before shooting for stabbed. The guy (and ladies) who used what Jim Cirillo I believe called a Weapon Silhouette index (Suarez called it meant on metal shooting) where if you see your gun surrounded by bad guy you shoot gave the highest chances of survival.

01 March 2025, 01:21

Jayhawker2022

quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
Again, mma fighters w great grappling and ground game are the best instructors for law enforcement who are going to get entangled w folks who are not going to comply.

Those skills, drills, and fitness regimen to be able to perform them are very useful to law enforcement. My buddy is a retired pro and he teaches LE here for free because it saves lives.

Agreed.

Almost every fight I have been in ended up on tuw ground.

You need to learn how to ground fight.

01 March 2025, 02:32

theback40

Passed ranger school mike, and beyond. It's one of many tough schools out there, from several countries. But, there is always more, to push yourself if up to it.
As far as a knife goes. You take the cuts on your arms, and continue your weapon draw. Nobody bleeds out in the short term from a couple extremity cuts. If it's knife to knife, the same applies. The stronger and more fit individual wins if of equal skill.
It's simple really, want the win more than the other guy.

01 March 2025, 02:50

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by theback40:
Passed ranger school mike, and beyond. It's one of many tough schools out there, from several countries. But, there is always more, to push yourself if up to it.
As far as a knife goes. You take the cuts on your arms, and continue your weapon draw. Nobody bleeds out in the short term from a couple extremity cuts. If it's knife to knife, the same applies. The stronger and more fit individual wins if of equal skill.
It's simple really, want the win more than the other guy.

I'm going to try one more time.....

Do you think that the folks that already work for the government and that run the Ranger training school could get FBI personnel in peak physical fitness?

I'm going to assume your answer is "yes".

Why then would we need to hire Dana White and some UFC fighter to train them to get into peak physical fitness? Don't we already have the people and the infrastructure and government training facilities in place to accomplish the goal?

Why then would we need to hire Dana White and some unknown UFC fighters to train FBI personnel at taxpayer expense?

Because Dana White gave trump millions of dollars to get him elected?

You see where I am going with this?

01 March 2025, 03:21

theback40

Mike, dana White is a promoter. He couldnt teach MMA.
Why would you want to pull the members of military training schools off the job they are doing to train FBI? There is no down time for the programs you are talking about. When one session ends, another starts.
Find someone who can do the job outside the military. The two do not mix. There are plenty of instructors in numerous disciplines out there, that could be the perfect fit in the civilian sector.
it would not save money to have it done in the military or with military personnel. It does not work that way. that is why things are farmed out to civilian contractors.
If you want me to say he said UFC because White is a pal of trumps, sure he is.
but your premise that in-gov would be a better choice, it just is not.

01 March 2025, 03:32

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by theback40:
Mike, dana White is a promoter. He couldnt teach MMA.
Why would you want to pull the members of military training schools off the job they are doing to train FBI? There is no down time for the programs you are talking about. When one session ends, another starts.
Find someone who can do the job outside the military. The two do not mix. There are plenty of instructors in numerous disciplines out there, that could be the perfect fit in the civilian sector.
it would not save money to have it done in the military or with military personnel. It does not work that way. that is why things are farmed out to civilian contractors.
If you want me to say he said UFC because White is a pal of trumps, sure he is.
but your premise that in-gov would be a better choice, it just is not.

Buddy, you're the one saying MMA is the way to go, not me.

Point me to an MMA training facility designed to handle the training of FBI agents?

No offense, but it is ridiculous. If the goal is physical fitness (the stated objective in the article) why can't FBI agents just be ramped up in relation to the training they already receive? Quantico is a giant facility with huge resources. Are you telling me that there is no Ranger physical fitness instructor who can't find the time to train each FBI class? There aren't that many of them. And, that assumes it is even necessary. The FBI training requires a certain level of physical fitness.

And, again....I would say that the entire premise is ridiculous. The FBI has been training FBI personnel for 100 years. Suddenly, they can't handle it? They're not generally going to be in hand to hand combat with the terrorists/criminals that they are investigating or arresting. Patel is full of shit and the whole thing is ridiculous.

I'm a little bit surprised you can't get a handle on that.

Again, the only reason this is being floated is because of trump.

01 March 2025, 03:46

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by theback40:
Mike, dana White is a promoter. He couldnt teach MMA.
Why would you want to pull the members of military training schools off the job they are doing to train FBI? There is no down time for the programs you are talking about. When one session ends, another starts.
Find someone who can do the job outside the military. The two do not mix. There are plenty of instructors in numerous disciplines out there, that could be the perfect fit in the civilian sector.
it would not save money to have it done in the military or with military personnel. It does not work that way. that is why things are farmed out to civilian contractors.
If you want me to say he said UFC because White is a pal of trumps, sure he is.
but your premise that in-gov would be a better choice, it just is not.

Buddy, you're the one saying MMA is the way to go, not me.

Point me to an MMA training facility designed to handle the training of FBI agents?

No offense, but it is ridiculous. If the goal is physical fitness (the stated objective in the article) why can't FBI agents just be ramped up in relation to the training they already receive? Quantico is a giant facility with huge resources. Are you telling me that there is no Ranger physical fitness instructor who can't find the time to train each FBI class? There aren't that many of them. And, that assumes it is even necessary. The FBI training requires a certain level of physical fitness.

And, again....I would say that the entire premise is ridiculous. The FBI has been training FBI personnel for 100 years. Suddenly, they can't handle it? They're not generally going to be in hand to hand combat with the terrorists/criminals that they are investigating or arresting. Patel is full of shit and the whole thing is ridiculous.

I'm a little bit surprised you can't get a handle on that.

Again, the only reason this is being floated is because of trump.

Red meat for the base Mike, nothing more too it.....