quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
God Bless those killed on 9/11.

May those who perpetrated 9/11 be forever tortured in hell.

Jeff,
I have to agree GWB totally f***ed up the retaliation of 9-11-2001.

I do have a question though for you or anyone.

Was Saudi Arabia complicit in 9/11 or did it just spawn some the men who orchestrated it?

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
God Bless those killed on 9/11.

May those who perpetrated 9/11 be forever tortured in hell.

Jeff,
I have to agree GWB totally f***ed up the retaliation of 9-11-2001.

I do have a question though for you or anyone.

Was Saudi Arabia complicit in 9/11 or did it just spawn some the men who orchestrated it?

That's going to be a very difficult answer to ever nail down definitively, since everybody with the power to do so did everything possible to block every attempt at investigation, for some reason.

My personal opinion is that Saudi Intelligence knew, and they aren't known for keeping things from their masters. Maybe only those Saudi royals who had "accidents" in the months afterward were involved, or maybe those were the ones with questionable reliability.

What I think happened is that the operation was green-lit at very high levels in the Saudi structure, but when it succeeded far beyond anybody's wildest expectations (the Towers coming down would not even have been part of the dream during planning) folks ran for cover.

The operation in Afghanistan should have ended at Tora Bora; instead of hiring warlords to secure the back door we should have made the entire complex an enduring warning for generations to come by nuking the place shut forever with a dozen or 15 tactical weapons. With that glowing in the background we should have given Saudi Arabia 48 hours to turn over everybody within their borders with any complicity. If they failed to comply we can always use another overseas territory.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
God Bless those killed on 9/11.

May those who perpetrated 9/11 be forever tortured in hell.

Jeff,
I have to agree GWB totally f***ed up the retaliation of 9-11-2001.

I do have a question though for you or anyone.

Was Saudi Arabia complicit in 9/11 or did it just spawn some the men who orchestrated it?

That's going to be a very difficult answer to ever nail down definitively, since everybody with the power to do so did everything possible to block every attempt at investigation, for some reason.

My personal opinion is that Saudi Intelligence knew, and they aren't known for keeping things from their masters. Maybe only those Saudi royals who had "accidents" in the months afterward were involved, or maybe those were the ones with questionable reliability.

What I think happened is that the operation was green-lit at very high levels in the Saudi structure, but when it succeeded far beyond anybody's wildest expectations (the Towers coming down would not even have been part of the dream during planning) folks ran for cover.

The operation in Afghanistan should have ended at Tora Bora; instead of hiring warlords to secure the back door we should have made the entire complex an enduring warning for generations to come by nuking the place shut forever with a dozen or 15 tactical weapons. With that glowing in the background we should have given Saudi Arabia 48 hours to turn over everybody within their borders with any complicity. If they failed to comply we can always use another overseas territory.

Thank you. Can’t say I disagree with any of that.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
God Bless those killed on 9/11.

May those who perpetrated 9/11 be forever tortured in hell.

Jeff,
I have to agree GWB totally f***ed up the retaliation of 9-11-2001.

I do have a question though for you or anyone.

Was Saudi Arabia complicit in 9/11 or did it just spawn some the men who orchestrated it?

That's going to be a very difficult answer to ever nail down definitively, since everybody with the power to do so did everything possible to block every attempt at investigation, for some reason.

My personal opinion is that Saudi Intelligence knew, and they aren't known for keeping things from their masters. Maybe only those Saudi royals who had "accidents" in the months afterward were involved, or maybe those were the ones with questionable reliability.

What I think happened is that the operation was green-lit at very high levels in the Saudi structure, but when it succeeded far beyond anybody's wildest expectations (the Towers coming down would not even have been part of the dream during planning) folks ran for cover.

The operation in Afghanistan should have ended at Tora Bora; instead of hiring warlords to secure the back door we should have made the entire complex an enduring warning for generations to come by nuking the place shut forever with a dozen or 15 tactical weapons. With that glowing in the background we should have given Saudi Arabia 48 hours to turn over everybody within their borders with any complicity. If they failed to comply we can always use another overseas territory.

Thank you. Can’t say I disagree with any of that.

Of course, for shits and giggles, it would have been hilarious to gather the invasion force on Saudis northern border for the invasion of Iraq and ordered "About Face!" and driven to Riyadh with the whole shitaree...

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
God Bless those killed on 9/11.

May those who perpetrated 9/11 be forever tortured in hell.

Jeff,
I have to agree GWB totally f***ed up the retaliation of 9-11-2001.

I do have a question though for you or anyone.

Was Saudi Arabia complicit in 9/11 or did it just spawn some the men who orchestrated it?

That's going to be a very difficult answer to ever nail down definitively, since everybody with the power to do so did everything possible to block every attempt at investigation, for some reason.

My personal opinion is that Saudi Intelligence knew, and they aren't known for keeping things from their masters. Maybe only those Saudi royals who had "accidents" in the months afterward were involved, or maybe those were the ones with questionable reliability.

What I think happened is that the operation was green-lit at very high levels in the Saudi structure, but when it succeeded far beyond anybody's wildest expectations (the Towers coming down would not even have been part of the dream during planning) folks ran for cover.

The operation in Afghanistan should have ended at Tora Bora; instead of hiring warlords to secure the back door we should have made the entire complex an enduring warning for generations to come by nuking the place shut forever with a dozen or 15 tactical weapons. With that glowing in the background we should have given Saudi Arabia 48 hours to turn over everybody within their borders with any complicity. If they failed to comply we can always use another overseas territory.

Thank you. Can’t say I disagree with any of that.

Of course, for shits and giggles, it would have been hilarious to gather the invasion force on Saudis northern border for the invasion of Iraq and ordered "About Face!" and driven to Riyadh with the whole shitaree...

The Saudis OWN you!

Kushner is getting richer by the minute right now because of Saudi money!

Remember Trump bowing to His Majesty the King?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
They are going after Hunter.

Kushner is a great white shark compared to Hunter as a sardine!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
God Bless those killed on 9/11.

May those who perpetrated 9/11 be forever tortured in hell.

Jeff,
I have to agree GWB totally f***ed up the retaliation of 9-11-2001.

I do have a question though for you or anyone.

Was Saudi Arabia complicit in 9/11 or did it just spawn some the men who orchestrated it?

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Lots of us (foreigners) told you Iraq was a bloody stupid move. Very few of those here agreed, the only response was the stereotypical French coward jokes.

Never forget

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Our generation’s date that will live in infamy.

My parents (still with us) were alive for both 9/11 and Pearl Harbor.

My dad feels Pearl Harbor was by far more significant.

My mom, given my sister worked just blocks away from the Twin Towers feels 9/11 is and was a bigger deal.

I have friends who lived through it (worked in the WTC) and those who died there.

I agreed with the military response.

I don’t agree with use of nuclear weapons there.

Can’t say that I understand how we let the Saudis off publicly without any real recrimination, but I suspect they really cracked down and extrajudicially punished a lot of folks to get us to leave them out.

Iraq deserved intervention in my mind,

I don’t disagree.

And if the American people were of strong and lasting will…we could have made a difference there.

It is funny that Jefffive quips about “annexing” Saudia Arabia yet when it could apply to Iraq…liberals call it tyranny.

America needs to stay out of conflict due to the fact that it’s populace has no stomach for it. They flip-flop like a fish out of water and we end up making a huge mess at huge cost. Voila…Iraq (and Viet Nam)

but I also acknowledge that the reason it happened there as opposed to other places was Bush’s personal choice.

The attack has changed a lot of things, and not for the better in this country. It’s been used as rationale for massive erosions of civil liberties by government throughout the west, at the US’ behest.

I’d like to think we Will remember the lost, but get rid of some of the overreactions.

But I will not hold my breath on that.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
Lane,
Where have we ever been successful at nation building?

Japan???

In a tribal culture that had zero interest in western style representative Government?

Agreed

We were never going to win the peace in Iraq, that much should be obvious to anyone paying attention during 8 plus years we were there.

Agreed.

That is why you don’t try to “win” the peace and arbitrate it…or just stay the hell away all together.

An incredibly poor decision on Shrub's part, possibly the single biggest foreign policy failure since Vietnam.

Agreed

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I supported intervention into Iraq. However, we left Iraq bc the new Government basically told us to.

And who facilitated that government’s establishment?

The states goal and long term desire of that goal failed. All we did was destabilize the region. This is hindsight. However, in the future we should limit military action to those engaged in activity violence toward US and US strategic interest when dealing w the Middle East.

Afghanistan was not a failed state. I have provided facts to that affect. However, it demonstrates that in the Middle East no such government nor culture can survive without US Service members and infrastructure in place. We should have just broke the Taliban and Bin Laden. Then we should have left, and warned them to make us come back would be worse.

As to 9/11 itself, I do not have words. To attempt a verbal expression, would be pitifully lacking.