The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum D-Day, June 6Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Let’s not forget. Of course some out there regard those that died to free Europe as “losers” and “suckers”. The same person folks here tell us should be the next leader of our country. Trump: Americans Who Died in War are “Losers” and “Suckers” Mike | ||
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| Administrator |
Yes. Let us not forget. Sadly, from what is going on in the right now, not many people remember the past. | |||
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| One of Us |
Now Mike, be fair. Today's Republicans would have been there on D-Day, they just would have started the day on dry land. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Margaret Brotheridge's father is considered to be the first Allied soldier killed on D-Day, but she did not find out about his amazing story until she was 40. Lt Den Brotheridge served with the Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry and was part of Operation Tonga to seize what is now known as Pegasus Bridge in Normandy. He was one of 181 hand-picked soldiers who packed into six gliders on the eve of D-Day, ready to fly into Normandy and battle. "He was chosen to go first and I understand he got drunk as soon as he was chosen, because he knew he'd probably be [shot] first," Margaret told BBC Breakfast. "But if you're in the Army you are trained to do a job." He was gunned down as he led his men over the bridge just after midnight on 6 June 1944. Margaret was born 19 days later. Each year, she returns to the town of Bénouville - the scene of the first, vital battle on D-Day - to support Arlette Gondrée’s café at the bridge. The Gondrée family made a plaque for Lt Brotheridge’s grave from their kitchen table. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0ddxnekvv2o The humble héros of WW2 who kept their tales to themselves  | |||
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| Administrator |
Imagine the most popular person to be next president is a draft dodging coward!  | |||
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https://www.snopes.com/news/20...oops-suckers-losers/ You guys love to depend on Snopes. Are we at a point where people have to prove that they didn't say something? "Cannibals ate my Uncle" Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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| One of Us |
Here is Trump’s quote. He did. Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed. Belleau Wood is a consequential battle in American history being the ground on which it was fought is venerated by the Marine Corps. America and its allies stopped the German. The 1918 attack was Germany’s last chances to win the war. The 1918 German Offensive designed to knock the Allies out bf the U.S. could be effectively mobilized in country. He said it. | |||
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Trump’s contempt for those that served is well known. He seems to have the greatest contempt for those that gave the most, be they POWs or KIAs. I would call him a turd, but that would be disrespectful to turds. Mike | |||
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Exact quote from a witness Just days later, Zach Fuentes, a former White House aide who left the administration in early 2019 and was with the president on the Paris trip and presumably near him during the in-question conversations about the cemetery visit, stood up for Trump in an interview with Breitbart. Referring to Gen. John Kelly, who was with Trump during the trip as his chief of staff, he said, "I did not hear POTUS call anyone losers when I told him about the weather. Honestly, do you think General Kelly would have stood by and let ANYONE call fallen Marines losers?" Reporting on Fuentes' interview with Breitbart, The Washington Post noted that the phrase "I did not hear..." is not the same as "it didn't happen." Furthermore, there was no evidence of Kelly being around Trump to hear the alleged comments. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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And he never sneered at John McCain's years as a POW either, right? "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Truth - His disrespect for John McCain was off-putting. MANY things about Trump are off-putting. I have intellectually disabled son. His mocking of the reporter with CP was infuriating to myself and my wife. My Sons twin sister died of complications shortly after birth (30 days). She too would have had intellectual disabilities. I detest Trump as a person, father and a husband. He is in fact a terrible person. BUT, we have to choose what is best for this nation. This nation and our successes and its security are far more important than any one man, his son or daughter. By many metrics, this nation is on a crash course to 3rd world status. ~10 million illegals since Biden's inauguration, I think the inflation since that same time is 19%?. The military can't meet its quota, fuel prices are double, SOR is nearly empty, The world has multiple wars on-going. We were a nation at peace ( I didn't say internal tranquility) Inflation was 1.8% (IIRC) I won't intentionally make a choice for President based solely on personalities. You may chose Biden because he fits you political leanings over Trump. I won't call you names for that. I may disagree with you, but I won't call you a dope. It seems that the majority of the posters here in the ARPF actually desire conflict and choose to hate their fellow American, simply due to their political choices. I choose not to do that. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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I really don’t get the point of people defending Trump. All it does is diminish them. Just like those that work and serve with him. They all leave his service with damaged and diminished reputations. Mike | |||
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"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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The exact quote is above. Everyone else is lying, but Trump. Got it. | |||
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Let us see? Do I believe the man found liable for defamation, or do I believe Kelly? I believe Kelly and not your “source?” There is nothing about Trump better than the nation. A person that thinks those who defend their country in uniform, or are shot down or seriously wounded in combat, or spend years being tortured as POWs are all ‘suckers’ because ‘there is nothing in it for them,'" Kelly said of Trump. "A person that did not want to be seen in the presence of military amputees because ‘it doesn’t look good for me.’ A person who demonstrated open contempt for a Gold Star family — for all Gold Star families — on TV during the 2016 campaign, and rants that our most precious heroes who gave their lives in America’s defense are ‘losers’ and wouldn’t visit their graves in France.” Yeah, only team Trump is telling the truth. | |||
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How many thousands of others did exactly the same; those who had friends in high places or whose influential parents made sure that their kids were given an office at home instead of going to the front lines? | |||
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I know of 58,000 who didn't, you can see a list of their names on the Mall in D.C. Did any of them go in place of Donny Bonespurs? "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Neither Trump or Biden are fit to be Commander in Chief, they proved that in Afghanistan. | |||
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I have to agree with King. | |||
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My father went in on the landings in North Africa, Sicily and D-day on Ohama beach as a combat tanker. He had about a much combat time as any American in the European theater. He did not talk about it much but if you got him in just the right mood he would and some of the stuff he said was pretty bad. His brother was in the pacific theater and it was at times even worse there. I have a lot of respect for combat veterans! | |||
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Whats the line about hitting rock bottom before you can turn around? Biden isn't worth discussing, neither of us are interested in him. I generally agree with your assessment of Trump personally, but we can consider him professionally too can't we? He has a record, a body of work. Of the "roles of President" we have a resume on Trump: Commander in Chief? Fail, see Afghanistan. Chief Diplomat? Fail. See all of Europe as well as DPRK. Chief Executive? Fail, see Corona. Chief Politician? Not very deft with Congress or the opposing party. Chief Citizen? see his legal troubles, family troubles and inability to watch his mouth. Etc. Dude failed. Dude failed us, failed America. Only in elementary school do you fail a term and get a do over. The Taliban is back in full control of Afghanistan and it's entirely Trump's fault. Yes it is entirely Bidens fault too, and no,im certainly not going to send either back to the Whitehouse for more of that. | |||
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Your position isn't logical. A rogue like Trump by character is not going to look out for anyone or anything but himself. He proved that irrevocably by his attempts to overturn the last election. And he's been consistent about this since entering the public eye. Why would you ever believe what he says about anything, let alone his policies? To do so is at best naive. | |||
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Ask Cadet Bone Spurs which foot was the problem, (he has a 50-50 chance of guessing what was claimed) and how they just went away. | |||
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I have to say that this is one of the most bizarre posts I have ever seen. Watching people bend themselves into pretzels to somehow justify their support for the Convicted Felon has become a spectator sport here in the crater. His disrespect for McCain wasn't "off-putting", it was vile, disrespectful and disgusting. Having to listen to a silver-spoon draft dodging shit-bird try to minimize the sacrifice and suffering of a man who spent his entire life serving this country in itself and on it's own ought to have disqualified trump from ever being president or even a garbage man. And this: "I detest Trump as a person, father and a husband. He is in fact a terrible person." But, he should be the President of the United States? How is it even possible to respond to such nonsense?  -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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MM and Roland - I get it, it seems counterintuitive to you. Thats simply because you favor Biden over Trump. In my view, Biden is BY FAR the worse choice. Biden's policies are not helping America. When faced with a simple, binary choice between the two, Trump is, in my opinion the better choice for America. I don't need to like him. As I stated, we see things 180deg apart. I see Biden as corrupt, incompetent and is compromised to our enemies due to his financial expeditions with them. Why does a family have all these shell companies, yet produces absolutely nothing? Where does all the family wealth come from? Try to look objectively at these points, not through a partisan prism. The border? Please don't tell me you're OK with things? And the proposed border bill did ZERO to stop the flow. Again, I hope Americans can at least drop the partisan hostility towards one another. Americans, by and large, have far more in common than that which divides us. Political party solidarity is dividing us to a dangerous point. This tribalism isn't healthy for a people. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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https://youtu.be/mrUAHQkLKtY?si=ApykqdUTQ-DSk1GH Tom Hanks asked if he is worried about another Trump presidency. Hear his response ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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>>>>I see Biden as corrupt, incompetent and is compromised to our enemies due to his financial expeditions with them.<<<< And, your facts or credible evidence that any of this is true? I don't have a problem with you not liking or supporting Biden. But, don't rely on lies and innuendo to justify it. You've already pointed out why trump should not be POTUS. I couldn't say it any better myself: >>>>I detest Trump as a person, father and a husband. He is in fact a terrible person.<<<< What you left out is that he is also a seditionist, a liar, a fraud, and an existential threat to our democracy. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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| One of Us |
The saddest part of this are those who faced this great evil; at home in factories to overwhelm the German war machine, in the galls and rooms of government where no moderation with the evil of Nazis Germany would be accepted, the medical people, the generals who moved the pieces, the young men whose blood were those pieces are soon going to be all gone from us. What a loss to our fabric of humanity to have the slip away from us with time. The evil that saw and required such victorious sacrifice, I do not think goes away. I cannot help but think those who have recently recited the old lie, recited on this sub forum, that we are too weak by our compassion, too broken by our inclusion, and too divided by our debate are drastically mistaken. Yes, the U.S. leaves. That one of the few things that separates us for the better from them. That forces may return to overwhelm the opportunity to a more perfect relationship between man and neighbor, man and state. The fact remains the opportunity is best with and when the strength of America and liberal democracy which she leads on behalf steps forward. How far that step must be at any given point in time, is for the debate. I often wonder how committed the U.S. would have been, how dedicated to the reproach of Nazis Germany the U.S. would have been if all and every chance to prevent war had not been exhausted. | |||
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Revisionist history much? There was a very strong political move to moderate. Both before and after US involved hostilities. Roosevelt did attempt to help the allies before the war started, but we also sold and dealt with the Nazis as well. Most of the issues with amounts were probably more affected by the British having much more control of the seas than the Germans. Any cargo ship headed to Germany was stopped and impounded by Britain, so the halls of government and the factories were not unilaterally sacrificing for the war effort for almost half the war. Also, look at the end of the war in the pacific. We did negotiate and play games before the surrender there. Also, there were lots of compromises made immediately post war with relatively high ranking Nazi types (VonBraun, Gehlen, etc. on our side… I’m sure there were bunches of them on the Soviet side that we just don’t know much about as well… and don’t even talk about Japan and the compromises with evil there. We definitely held the Germans to a higher standard, as low as it was. We have changed. The laws that you tout were often in existence back then and were flat out ignored. I do think the same thing could happen again with a significant enough threat. But do think… look at the claims of fascism and go back and read what the Nazis did domestically, and there was socialism. The individual must sacrifice for the good of the group. Everyone pays their fair share. Politicians making a lot of money out of using government power to line their pockets. Book deals making them rich. The US has always had a strong element of isolationism, but also an element of willingness to use force to ensure folks behave within the boundaries of what we see is right. The problem with our excessive compassion and inclusion is that it is making us more inefficient and thus unable to rise above when a need suddenly presents. We have been investing in social policy at the detriment of strengthening our economy for decades now. Places that were no where near us before are closer now than ever. We don’t have the huge engine of industry compared to our rivals that we used to. If you want to compare, the UK was a preeminent economic power before the war. They went down the social road, and now can’t even field a navy that would be capable of retaking the falklands without external help… yet the political left thinks we need to do more like the Europeans who now need us to stop an aggressor in their own back yard. We can’t do everything. Look at WWII. We will sacrifice heavily short term, but it takes a lot to get us there, and our national will doesn’t tend to stay focused very long. If we had mobilized on the scale we did in WWII for the GWOT, I would doubt we would have maintained our effort for 2 years. Our problem now is that with modern weaponry, you don’t have 4 or so years to build up your defenses to defeat an existential enemy. Our taxes as a percentage of GDP have reached a peacetime high. Our government percentage of GDP is higher than ever via deficit spending. While social programs and spending do some good, they do weaken the country as its expenditure without return economically. | |||
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Not prosecuting the Emperor was the smartest thing MacArthur ever did. There was no NAZI who meant the same to Germany as the Emperor did to Japan. He was the head and symbol of a 3,500 year old culture. Preserving him as a figurehead was the right decision. If we'd prosecuted the Emperor, the people would not have cooperated with our occupation as they did. The Russians would have had much more success spreading Communism, post-occupation. And Japan probably wouldn't be the first-world ally it is today. | |||
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A whole bunch of Japanese were convicted of war crimes and sent to death. My neighbor and former state rep was clerk for the trials. He died last month. You are not worth responding to more than I just did. I appreciate Rolland’s response to you. | |||
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The first is not true: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S The second is a function of the fact that the government is not, nor is it supposed to be, a business. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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And please remember the allies fought and died against fascism, the same as what Trump voters want today. IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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This is probably closer. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S Government debt (spending in excess of receipts) is now 120% of GDP. Its been going up very rapidly. As to the part re government is not a business... Correct. But if you allow government (which is not a business and does not produce anything on its own) to become more and more the entire economy, what happens? Where is the "machine" that we turned into the "arsenal of democracy" in WWII going to be found? China? Note: Government spending in the United States was last recorded at 34.4 percent of GDP in 2023 . Government Spending to GDP in the United States averaged 25.68 percent of GDP from 1900 until 2023, reaching an all time high of 47.01 percent of GDP in 2020 and a record low of 6.55 percent of GDP in 1907. source: U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis
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Sorry, I am not willing to say that the Trump voters want fascism like what we fought in WWII. | |||
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Denial is in your DNA | |||
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Counterintuitive? I said nothing about going by intuition. Your intuition about Trump seems sound. I doubt you'd ever hire Trump to work for your business, but you're willing to hand the government over to him again. What's wrong with that picture? I said your belief in the announced policies of a chronic liar and narcissist is illogical. He's made it clear his chief policy would be getting revenge on his political enemies. Do we really want to indulge that? I don't favor Biden--except over Trump. I'd favor a dead rat over Trump; neither would do any good for the country, but at least the dead rat wouldn't do any harm. You have no evidence of wrong-doing by Biden, just innuendo. Do you know the difference between evidence and innuendo? Please think about where you got that innuendo from, and maybe reconsider where you get your news. It's very difficult not to be hostile to voters who would try to inflict this horrible man on us again. He is the biggest divider to ever hold the office. We don't need to further divide our nation. | |||
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Leaving the emperor out of the discussion- The Tokyo war crimes trial tried 28 criminals and returned 7 death penalties and 6 to life imprisonment (although only 3 died in prison). 13 received lesser prison terms. https://www.nationalww2museum....kyo-war-crimes-trial Nuremburg had 24 defendants of which 12 were condemned to death, 7 to prison, and 3 were aquitted. Two (Goering and Bohrmann) were sentenced to hang but the sentence was not carried out due to suicide and not being able to be found. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials The lesser war crimes trials by individual nations were much more numerous against the Nazis than the Japanese. Did we try some? Yes. Was the numbers of US prosecutions similar? I don't know. I spent a couple hours trying to get hard numbers and found that we gave about 140 death penalties to Japanese personnel but that we were a minority of the executions- the Netherlands had more and the Phillipines and China were the higher ones. For Germany, I could not find overall numbers. Some like Joachim Piper we found guilty and sentenced to execution but he was then let off for technicalities. Poland it sounds like executed more Nazis than all of the IMTFE combined. You can make an argument about the emperor himself and the need for pragmatism. You cannot make the argument that the Japanese were any less brutal or inhumane in their behavior during the war. Fundametally, the further you got temporally from the war, the less prosecutions you had. We did negotiate despite the various demands for unconditional surrender with the Japanese. We did not do so with the Germans... why? Mainly because of war weariness I suspect. The war was increasingly unpopular on the home front after VE day. We knew we had beaten the Japanese to the point where they could not be a threat to us at the time. Note that Tojo is now considered one of the honored war dead in Japan. From the military times: Today, even without the ashes, bereaved families and conservative Japanese lawmakers such as former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe regularly pay tribute at Tokyo’s Yasukuni Shrine, where the executed war criminals are enshrined with 2.5 million war dead considered “sacred spirits” in the Shinto religion. No remains are enshrined at Yasukuni. I will also note that Jodl was "exonerated" after the fact by the Germans.
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The traditional Shinto religion postulates that ALL people leave behind sacred spirits. Most Japanese still believe that; it's part of their cultural upbringing, as Christianity was for me (and perhaps you). The spirits of ancestors in particular must be honored with gifts, food, and prayers. But the honored spirits include those of war dead, even war criminals. The war dead shrine is not to honor war crimes, but only the souls of the departed. | |||
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| Administrator |
Over one TRILLION Dollars are spent on paying interest on government deficit, per year! | |||
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