Had Trump been President during the Berlin Crisis, Trump would have pulled out of West Berlin, or refused to airlift in aid.

President Trump and Musk would have killed off the Marshall Plan that stabilized Europe and economically stifled Stalinism.

That’s fine lawyering. You’re stating as fact what you speculate would have happened in a long distant environment by imposing upon modern day figures your agenda driven prejudices, both in history and in todays politic.

Of course they could have just dropped an atom bomb on Moscow, too. Or not fired macArthur. On started Chick-fil-A.

every time we let Europe run itself they start a world war.

personally I don't care, but those 6-7 y.o. boys that'll be over shooting someone in 10 or so years probably do.

Bullshit. Even you, Judge, can figure out he's right. You just can't admit what a blunder you made when you voted.

Trump said yesterday at a press conference that he didn't know if he would defend NATO countries if they were attacked.

We gave our word to the NATO countries to defend them. Doesn't our national word mean anything? We look especially fickle and unreliable because the US is the only country ever to benefit from the mutual defense treaty.

It doesn't matter to Trump. Nor to his followers, I guess. All tools of Putin.

Trump instead of condemning Putin’s latest bombings says, “ Anybody would.”


That is the point all public and policy pressure is being put on Ukraine by this Administration. It should be placed on Russia.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
That’s fine lawyering. You’re stating as fact what you speculate would have happened in a long distant environment by imposing upon modern day figures your agenda driven prejudices, both in history and in todays politic.

Of course they could have just dropped an atom bomb on Moscow, too. Or not fired macArthur. On started Chick-fil-A.

I am reacting to Trump’s stated positions as Rolland and many of us have quoted time after time.

quote:

We gave our word to the NATO countries to defend them

Of you have any questions as to the substance of Trumps ‘word’, I have this document called the USMCA labeled Exhibit A.

There are also three wives with equally respected documents, as well as countless business associates going back thirty years or so.

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:

quote:

We gave our word to the NATO countries to defend them

Of you have any questions as to the substance of Trumps ‘word’, I have this document called the USMCA labeled Exhibit A.

There are also three wives with equally respected documents, as well as countless business associates going back thirty years or so.

And NATO gave their word on their financial participation......they didn't keep their word....bit that's okay... So its only bad when the USA defaults on their word?

Or the other NATO countries welching on their part does that make the agreement void?

I know, I know, its okay for the world to free load of us......

Russia spent 10 years bleeding in Afghanistan. Do that in Ukraine.

How many Ukrainians have to die for that to work??????

.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:

quote:

We gave our word to the NATO countries to defend them

Of you have any questions as to the substance of Trumps ‘word’, I have this document called the USMCA labeled Exhibit A.

There are also three wives with equally respected documents, as well as countless business associates going back thirty years or so.

And NATO gave the word on their financial participation......the didn't keep their word....... So its only bad when the USA defaults on their word?

Our by the other NATO countries welcoming on their part does that make the agreement void?

I know, I know, its okay for the world to free load of us......

Actually, no. That is not how NATO works. We are NATO. There is no pay to play, debt ticker on NATO. NATO was our idea. I would work everyday to make NATO even stronger. Any President who seeks to harm, weaken NATO , remove the aid from it does so wo my support and makes us all less safe.

You need to go read Article 5 and Article 6. I have posted them before, this week.

Our NATO allies citing Article 5 and 6 mobilized against Afghanistan.

What decades of General Secretaries and the Soviet Union could not do, in separating the U.S. from our NATO and Western allies, Trump snd Putin have done in months.

Oh, not for nothing, NATO is a ratified treaty approved by the Senate. It is the law of the land just like sent law passed through Congress and signed by the President. It is not optional nor a suggestion.

However, JTEX your side does not have the votes even now to void it. We know this because the fake right does not even try.

Ukraine was critical in finally seeing the dissolution of the Soviet Union. However, only over educated people know that. Trump and his morons in his Administration does not know that. Yes, I am speculating making a reasonable inference from the evidence. The Judge knows as fact finder, I am free to do so.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:

quote:

We gave our word to the NATO countries to defend them

Of you have any questions as to the substance of Trumps ‘word’, I have this document called the USMCA labeled Exhibit A.

There are also three wives with equally respected documents, as well as countless business associates going back thirty years or so.

And NATO gave the word on their financial participation......the didn't keep their word....... So its only bad when the USA defaults on their word?

Our by the other NATO countries welcoming on their part does that make the agreement void?

I know, I know, its okay for the world to free load of us......

Actually, no. That is not how NATO works. We are NATO. There is no pay to play, debt ticker on NATO. NATO was our idea. I would work everyday to make NATO even stronger. Any President who seeks to harm, weaken NATO , remove the aid from it does so wo my support and makes us all less safe.

You need to go read Article 5 and Article 6. I have posted them before, this week.

Our NATO allies citing Article 5 and 6 mobilized against Afghanistan.

What decades of General Secretaries and the Soviet Union could not do, in separating the U.S. from our NATO and Western allies, Trump snd Putin have done in months.

Oh, not for nothing, NATO is a ratified treaty approved by the Senate. It is the law of the land just like sent law passed through Congress and signed by the President. It is not optional nor a suggestion.

However, JTEX your side does not have the votes even now to void it. We know this because the fake right does not even try.

Ukraine was critical in finally seeing the dissolution of the Soviet Union. However, only over educated people know that. Trump and his morons in his Administration does not know that. Yes, I am speculating making a reasonable inference from the evidence. The Judge knows as fact finder, I am free to do so.

true believer syndrome - dude, you can't buy the line without kicking the tires. speculation is mental masturbation

I believe in our legal obligations, yes. The rest of your sentence does not make any sense.

Likewise, NATO is the law of the lend in the United States why because it is a valid treaty approved by the Senate and ratified. The anti-NATO side does not have the political ability to change that as a matter of law.

Also, the ability of Putin and Trump to divide the USA from or North American continental ally, Canada is a founding member of NATO, and our Western European allies in a couple of months. A feat the Soviet Union could not accomplish.

law of the "lend"
DRINK

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
law of the "lend"
DRINK

you recognize something when it fits the agenda of your president and we all know what your country signature means ... downplaying that doesnt mean you are right lol

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
How many Ukrainians have to die for that to work??????

.

Here is a reminder of your criminal, senseless wars.

North and South Vietnam were reunified in 1976. The war exacted an enormous human cost: estimates of Vietnamese soldiers and civilians killed range from 970,000 to 3 million. Some 275,000–310,000 Cambodians, 20,000–62,000 Laotians, and 58,220 US service members died.


282,000 American and Allied died.

For what?

An invented war that never was!

America CANNOT survive without a war going somewhere they have created!

And to top it all, they have picked a draft dodging coward to rule them!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
How many Ukrainians have to die for that to work??????

.

Here is a reminder of your criminal, senseless wars.

North and South Vietnam were reunified in 1976. The war exacted an enormous human cost: estimates of Vietnamese soldiers and civilians killed range from 970,000 to 3 million. Some 275,000–310,000 Cambodians, 20,000–62,000 Laotians, and 58,220 US service members died.


282,000 American and Allied died.

For what?

An invented war that never was!

America CANNOT survive without a war going somewhere they have created!

And to top it all, they have picked a draft dodging coward to rule them!

Saeed, you can't just make shit up. There was an active shooting war that had been going on in Vietnam for decades before we made the unfortunate decision to intervene. It was a mistake to get involved....but, we didn't start the war. I'll agree we prolonged it.

Search on: Is Trump an isolationist?

Results: https://www.google.com/search?...B_Bs&sclient=gws-wiz

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
law of the "lend"
DRINK

you recognize something when it fits the agenda of your president and we all know what your country signature means ... downplaying that doesnt mean you are right lol

was my post on topic? of course not, i was giving my friend a hard time.

do you know the childish tort of "this is an A-B conversation"

quote:

was my post on topic? of course not, i was giving my friend a hard time.

do you know the childish tort of "this is an A-B conversation"

On Topic? of course not. SOP

On Topic:

I think "isolationist" is not the right word for Trump. I think his worldview and domestic and international relations is bully diplomacy, zero-sum, transactional, mob boss mentality.

He says Ukraine is not "holding the cards", for example. Yet he further disadvantages them, favoring Russia.

https://youtu.be/psLYD4MCXJg?si=qBqF24Lz_zEKdzMS
Trump’s view of the world is simple minded’: John Bolton | On Balance


https://youtu.be/-Smj-BPxhEI?si=ObHR3gb3yI30BkFA

Bolton has theory on why Trump threatened Russia with sanctions

===============================================

Trump has suspended support for Ukraine and intelligence sharing, and cyber ops against Russia, and satellite service for Ukraine, all while knowing "Russia is pounding the hell out of them", taking advantage of the situation.

IOW, Trump is costing lives, which is not new.

Many Rightists still have respect for Bill O'Reilly. Here's a video of an interview with him. I can hardly stand the shrill voice of the host, but that really doesn't matter.

I started the video link at a specific point to show a short clip of Bill Mayer's show where a guest says how Zelenskyy should have treated Trump. Then O'Reilly goes on to explain reality from Trump's view.

https://youtu.be/gGyk5-fTZf8?s...k7syhTI_rKgR6k&t=427

Bill O'Reilly: Trump is not attacking Putin for a reason

===============================================

Then O'Reilly goes on to say Zelensky is in way over his head, demanding parity.

I have a problem with identifying reality that way, in this context. Zelensky has always been in over his head, so to speak, if you measure it in power to deter Putin's ambitions. He obviously can't do it alone, and that's the point of helping him, assuming his "parity" is worth protecting.

Trump and O'Rielly and GOPers apparently don't think that way, in those terms.

Bill O'Rielly also explains in the video how Trump is trying to give Putin an off ramp, saving face, allowing him to re-join the world order, and such. Apparently, Rightists think that's a good thing.

I dunno, of course, but imagine that - a world class killer, liar, a devoted enemy of democracy, a war criminal with no remorse and consistent trajectory as to means and end, kowtowingly given a face-saving path, which BTW has no assurances in stopping the trajectory in the future..

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
On Topic:

I think "isolationist" is not the right word for Trump. I think his worldview and domestic and international relations is bully diplomacy, zero-sum, transactional, mob boss mentality.

He says Ukraine is not "holding the cards", for example. Yet he further disadvantages them, favoring Russia.

https://youtu.be/psLYD4MCXJg?si=qBqF24Lz_zEKdzMS
Trump’s view of the world is simple minded’: John Bolton | On Balance


https://youtu.be/-Smj-BPxhEI?si=ObHR3gb3yI30BkFA

Bolton has theory on why Trump threatened Russia with sanctions

===============================================

Trump has suspended support for Ukraine and intelligence sharing, and cyber ops against Russia, and satellite service for Ukraine, all while knowing "Russia is pounding the hell out of them", taking advantage of the situation.

IOW, Trump is costing lives, which is not new.

President Theadore Roosevelt was bully diplomacy, but he was not isolationist. He used American strength to project, force American values and interest on the world stage. Trump is using bully politics to remove US influence. One seeks to remove, run. One sought to build a better world. There is a theory of President Roosevelt kept WWI from happening sooner as he put the sissies in his place a few times. I am sorry. I can look them up if anyone wants them. I think the Kaiser was wanting a deal w the U. Rosevelt said no and go away. This caused the Kaiser to back down on Europe for a while.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
We gave our word to the NATO countries to defend them. Doesn't our national word mean anything?

Sorry, but your car's warranty was issued by the previous CEO, I don't intend to honor that agreement.

Every cheesburger-eating surrender MAGAt would love to hear that when their car breaks down on the highway.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

President Theadore Roosevelt was bully diplomacy, but he was not isolationist. He used American strength to project, force American values and interest on the world stage. Trump is using bully politics to remove US influence. One seeks to remove, run. One sought to build a better world. There is a theory of President Roosevelt kept WWI from happening sooner as he put the sissies in his place a few times. I am sorry. I can look them up if anyone wants them. I think the Kaiser was wanting a deal w the U. Rosevelt said no and go away. This caused the Kaiser to back down on Europe for a while.

It's too bad that Trump chose his perverted view of Mckindley's legacy rather than T. Roosevelt's.

https://millercenter.org/presi...lt/impact-and-legacy

Theodore Roosevelt: Impact and Legacy

https://millercenter.org/presi...ey/impact-and-legacy

William McKinley: Impact and Legacy

https://www.britannica.com/money/Mark-Hanna

Mark Hanna

The prosperous owner of a Cleveland coal and iron enterprise, Hanna soon expanded his interests to include banking, transportation, and publishing. Convinced that the welfare of business (and consequently the prosperity of the nation) was dependent upon the success of the Republican Party, he began as early as 1880 to work among industrialists to ensure the financial support of likely candidates for office. He was especially impressed by Ohio congressman William McKinley’s successful sponsorship in 1890 of a high protective tariff, and thenceforth he devoted all his energies to McKinley’s political advancement, first as governor (1892–96) and then as president (1897–1901). In preparation for the 1896 contest with the Democrat–Populist candidate, William Jennings Bryan, Hanna was reputed to have poured more than $100,000 of his own money into preconvention expenses alone. Raising an unprecedented fund from wealthy individuals and corporations, the dynamic Hanna skillfully directed the $3,500,000 campaign—the costliest and best organized the nation had ever witnessed. At a rate of spending exceeding his opponents by 20 to 1, his 1,400 paid workers inundated the country with millions of pamphlets promising continuing prosperity with McKinley. Hanna succeeded in stunting Bryan’s grass-roots appeal with a continual barrage of posters and propaganda that preceded and followed Bryan at every whistle-stop of his campaign train.

Once in office, McKinley helped to fulfill Hanna’s lifelong ambition by appointing Sen. John Sherman secretary of state, thus creating a vacancy in the U.S. Senate. Hanna was elected to fill the vacancy (March 1897) and remained in the Senate until his death.
By Sidney Milkis