1105 is the number of european and canadian dead in afghanistan 2001-2021. A third of the dead coalition soldiers.

Just because the us didn't want to make a deal with the talibans. 9/11 was a US thing. Why the hell should anyone bother... or contribute?

But hear this: nobody ever sent the US a bill. Not for the costs, not for the gear, not for our dead. Nobody required eternal access to US mineral deposits.

Guess most americans are just too stupid to understand what's happening right now, or how your former allies try not to puke when thinking about the country that once was a trusted friend and ally.

Your new friends are in russia.

There will be plenty of whining from the dimwit house today:

quote:

Today President Zelensky put cold water on those expecting a sudden "economic" agreement with the United States to wrap up a ceasefire.

Addressing the the public, Zelensky refuted Trump's crazy $500 billion invoice. "Ukraine has received $100 billion in aid from the U.S., not 350, not 500, not 700. But even $100 billion, I am not ready to acknowledge as debt. A grant is not a loan. I negotiated this with Biden. The deal was a grant. We do not recognize it as debt.”

The new proposal from the Trump team stipulated that any military supplies given to Ukraine would have to be repaid twofold. "When the United States sells arms to Israel, Qatar, the Emirates, Saudi Arabia, do they ask them for a 100% surcharge? I'm not signing something that 10 generations of Ukrainians are going to pay later."

As for the longevity of any economic deal giving the facade of peace, he explained that "Trump is not forever, but the Russian threat is permanent" and even if Putin won't attack while Trump is in office, Ukraine needs guarantees that will outlast both of them.

Never before has the difference in character and gravitas been larger.

It's Winston Churchill vs Pee-wee Herman.

Plus 50 dead from Australia and NZ.

Zelensky is holding his ground and he's right to do so.

If a fair lend lease program or repayments for future aid is worked out, then fine I have no problem with that. But what's reported as on the table right now is extortion.

It’s disgusting, and profoundly sad.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
It’s disgusting, and profoundly sad.

I have been telling you for years!

America NEVER, EVER, did anything for nothing!

And right now they have shown us they are even more STUPID than the bloody Brits in picking their RULERS!

Trump and Must screwing the Americans.

Starmer and Reeves screwing the Brits!

Europe should have made a deal with the taliban. No reason to include the americans.

And it would have been so eeeeasy. Just give the taliban everything they ask for. And send a bill to america.

I am a master negotiator.

Strange. I would have expected a lot of interaction in this thread. I was under the impression that 9/11 was a big deal in the US and that military valor was highly respected.

I must have mixed up some countries. It was definetly not the US, I can see that now.

quote:

Originally posted by HerrBerg:
1105 is the number of european and canadian dead in afghanistan 2001-2021. A third of the dead coalition soldiers.

Just because the us didn't want to make a deal with the talibans. 9/11 was a US thing. Why the hell should anyone bother... or contribute?

But hear this: nobody ever sent the US a bill. Not for the costs, not for the gear, not for our dead. Nobody required eternal access to US mineral deposits.

Guess most americans are just too stupid to understand what's happening right now, or how your former allies try not to puke when thinking about the country that once was a trusted friend and ally.

Your new friends are in russia.

I would think it’s less than half. President Shit For Brains got slightly less than 50% of the vote. Polls show more than 50% disagree with some of the things he does. I think that number will go up. Unfortunately, some dumb bastards will always worship the ground that dumb bastard walks on.

quote:

Originally posted by HerrBerg:
Strange. I would have expected a lot of interaction in this thread. I was under the impression that 9/11 was a big deal in the US and that military valor was highly respected.

I must have mixed up some countries. It was definetly not the US, I can see that now.

There are many here who think as they are told to by the Trump machine. They think that they are objective but in reality are anything but.

This is the new world, the US sides with Russia, and today votes with Russia against its allies. And this position is supported by those who support Trump.

I’m upset with what is going on re Ukraine, but Trump is right, wars are settled by negotiation for the most part.

I fully expect that Ukraine will only agree with what they find acceptable.

However, you keep making the claim that Ukraine is an ally.

They are not. There is no formal alliance with us.

The Budapest agreement was not ratified by the senate.

Yes, that’s a legalistic argument.

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

I get that our allies helped in the GWOT, at least the Afghan part of it.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I’m upset with what is going on re Ukraine, but Trump is right, wars are settled by negotiation for the most part.

I fully expect that Ukraine will only agree with what they find acceptable.

However, you keep making the claim that Ukraine is an ally.

They are not. There is no formal alliance with us.

The Budapest agreement was not ratified by the senate.

Yes, that’s a legalistic argument.

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

I get that our allies helped in the GWOT, at least the Afghan part of it.

Feel free to set up a separate thread about Sweden.

But still, Sweden was neutral in 2001. US and Sweden were no allies. We had no obligations as an alliance.

If we sent a bill to the US today, asking for eternal mineral concessions, would you find that reasonable... or insane? Motivate your answer.

quote:

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

Beats me! I didn’t know the Bush family was Swedish.

George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany. The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism. His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

See? There’s no end of pots & kettles.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I’m upset with what is going on re Ukraine, but Trump is right, wars are settled by negotiation for the most part.

I fully expect that Ukraine will only agree with what they find acceptable.

However, you keep making the claim that Ukraine is an ally.

They are not. There is no formal alliance with us.

The Budapest agreement was not ratified by the senate.

Yes, that’s a legalistic argument.

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

I get that our allies helped in the GWOT, at least the Afghan part of it.

There is negotiation and allowing a Russia. Trump is allying w Russia.

Sweden was neutral. Did they have to trade w Nazis Germany? No.

Is trading w a war opponent something a neutral does? Yes.

The Swedes were good friends and helped us in Afghanistan.

No doubt about that. You had no obligation to help, but did anyway.

Thank you.

Of course, now, it seems like the whole thing was a waste of lives and fortune. We turned around and left… for political reasons.

I don’t know if our friends and allies had refused to send troops if it would have changed what happened. We were going in, regardless. The 1105 would still be alive, and the end result would still be the same, I think.

In my mind I could care less about a bunch of UN resolution garbage. I’d like to see Ukraine have its borders return to the pre war state. I’d like to see Russia learn that military aggression is not the answer to their perceived security concerns.

I’d rather see Ukraine get its territory back now than have a bunch of reparations requested and the war continue on.

I also know that Ukraine has huge issues with corruption and that hasn’t changed. Zelensky admits as much.

So, I’d say let trump try and get a deal with Putin, and see what’s offered. I’m ok with Putin saving face as long as the Russians leave Ukraine. Reparations and blame worked so well at Versailles… if you want to affix blame, it’s going to have to be on an individual level like in WWII; and unless you can go for unconditional surrender on the part of Russia, that isn’t happening.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I’m upset with what is going on re Ukraine, but Trump is right, wars are settled by negotiation for the most part.

I fully expect that Ukraine will only agree with what they find acceptable.

However, you keep making the claim that Ukraine is an ally.

They are not. There is no formal alliance with us.

The Budapest agreement was not ratified by the senate.

Yes, that’s a legalistic argument.

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

I get that our allies helped in the GWOT, at least the Afghan part of it.

There is negotiation and allowing a Russia. Trump is allying w Russia.

Sweden was neutral. Did they have to trade w Nazis Germany? No.

Is trading w a war opponent something a neutral does? Yes.

The point is that HerrBerg is making comments on the US not resisting aggression. We were neutral for the first 3 years of the war, yet only were willing to sell/give to the allies.

Sweden chose to sell war materiel to the Nazis.

For them to equate the US in Ukraine to supporting the Nazis seems a bit hypocritical, no?

Macron was brutal this morning.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I’m upset with what is going on re Ukraine, but Trump is right, wars are settled by negotiation for the most part.

I fully expect that Ukraine will only agree with what they find acceptable.

However, you keep making the claim that Ukraine is an ally.

They are not. There is no formal alliance with us.

The Budapest agreement was not ratified by the senate.

Yes, that’s a legalistic argument.

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

I get that our allies helped in the GWOT, at least the Afghan part of it.

There is negotiation and allowing a Russia. Trump is allying w Russia.

Sweden was neutral. Did they have to trade w Nazis Germany? No.

Is trading w a war opponent something a neutral does? Yes.

The point is that HerrBerg is making comments on the US not resisting aggression. We were neutral for the first 3 years of the war, yet only were willing to sell/give to the allies.

Sweden chose to sell war materiel to the Nazis.

For them to equate the US in Ukraine to supporting the Nazis seems a bit hypocritical, no?

Wonder what his family did during the war.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Macron was brutal this morning.

speaking and watching the news in france did not give the same at all. could point where he was that brutal? will be the first for macron use ...

We saved the whole of Europe TWICE.......

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
We saved the whole of Europe TWICE.......

We refer to that as “an inconvenient truth”.

I don't know that we saved the whole of Europe in WWI.

Our production and economic engine did save it in WWII, but face it, it was the Soviets who did the bleeding to win WWII in Europe.

In the Pacific it was a whole other story. The Chinese did most of the (ineffective) bleeding for the Allies. The US did most everything in that theater.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
We saved the whole of Europe TWICE.......

And we should have. We did not save Europe on our own.

WWII, Britain stood alone against Hitler while continental Europe folded like a chair.


Technically, Germany lost the WWII in the East. They could not win by 43. Most of the high command knew that.


The German Spring WWI 1918 Offensive was blunted before US Troops was became combat active. IS troops were necessary in counter attacks to cone.

The Marshall Plan and being the West Big Brother at the close of WWII and open of the Cold War is immeasurable in importance to me.

However, it was Churchill’s Britain that wanted (and drew up plans Operation Unthinkable) to expel the Russians.

Yes, we did. No we did not do it near alone. Here we are again. How much of Europe are you going to let him have? He was not satisfied w Crimea.

These folks want to and have been fighting him. We need to support them, and remove Russia from the international community. That is a lot cheaper than doing it the Full Monty way. He is not going to just stop.

America, the most belligerent country on the face of the earth!

They created the Vietnam war, so their masters the militiray industry can make a buck.

They killed Kennedy because he did not want the war, and installed Johnson.

282,000 American and allied killed.

1,353,000 Vietnamese soldiers killed!

And they got their arse handed to them!

They do deserve a draft dodging coward to rule them!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
America, the most belligerent country on the face of the earth!

They created the Vietnam war, so their masters the militiray industry can make a buck.

They killed Kennedy because he did not want the war, and installed Johnson.

282,000 American and allied killed.

1,353,000 Vietnamese soldiers killed!

And they got their arse handed to them!

They do deserve a draft dodging coward to rule them!

Saeed i have to correct you on the vietnam war: ... france started it and usa thought they will be more clever ...

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Macron was brutal this morning.

here come the answer ...

https://www.theguardian.com/us...ropean-union-tariffs

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I’m upset with what is going on re Ukraine, but Trump is right, wars are settled by negotiation for the most part.

I fully expect that Ukraine will only agree with what they find acceptable.

However, you keep making the claim that Ukraine is an ally.

They are not. There is no formal alliance with us.

The Budapest agreement was not ratified by the senate.

Yes, that’s a legalistic argument.

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

I get that our allies helped in the GWOT, at least the Afghan part of it.

I wasn’t referring to Ukraine as an ally but to the US and the rest of the democratic west being on opposite sides of the vote.

Ukraine has however shown that they would be a worthy ally. They are innovative, resourceful and determined.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I’m upset with what is going on re Ukraine, but Trump is right, wars are settled by negotiation for the most part.

I fully expect that Ukraine will only agree with what they find acceptable.

However, you keep making the claim that Ukraine is an ally.

They are not. There is no formal alliance with us.

The Budapest agreement was not ratified by the senate.

Yes, that’s a legalistic argument.

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

I get that our allies helped in the GWOT, at least the Afghan part of it.

There is negotiation and allowing a Russia. Trump is allying w Russia.

Sweden was neutral. Did they have to trade w Nazis Germany? No.

Is trading w a war opponent something a neutral does? Yes.

The point is that HerrBerg is making comments on the US not resisting aggression. We were neutral for the first 3 years of the war, yet only were willing to sell/give to the allies.

Sweden chose to sell war materiel to the Nazis.

For them to equate the US in Ukraine to supporting the Nazis seems a bit hypocritical, no?

The Finns allied with Germany in WW2. It was the only way of protecting themselves from (guess who ) Russia. Once that threat disappeared they booted the Germans out.

On Sweden do not forget that thousands of Jews were saved from the Nazis by Sweden. I forget the guys name but a Swedish diplomat issued thousands of passports to Jews to keep them out of the clutches of the Nazis - I think he was made an honorary US citizen. And Sweden gave refuge to Jews fleeing Denmark from the Nazis.

I’m pretty sure that they also shared military intelligence with the allies and gave shelter to thousands of Norwegians who opposed the axis invasion of Norway.

So they weren’t all bad…

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I’m upset with what is going on re Ukraine, but Trump is right, wars are settled by negotiation for the most part.

I fully expect that Ukraine will only agree with what they find acceptable.

However, you keep making the claim that Ukraine is an ally.

They are not. There is no formal alliance with us.

The Budapest agreement was not ratified by the senate.

Yes, that’s a legalistic argument.

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

I get that our allies helped in the GWOT, at least the Afghan part of it.

There is negotiation and allowing a Russia. Trump is allying w Russia.

Sweden was neutral. Did they have to trade w Nazis Germany? No.

Is trading w a war opponent something a neutral does? Yes.

The point is that HerrBerg is making comments on the US not resisting aggression. We were neutral for the first 3 years of the war, yet only were willing to sell/give to the allies.

Sweden chose to sell war materiel to the Nazis.

For them to equate the US in Ukraine to supporting the Nazis seems a bit hypocritical, no?

The Finns allied with Germany in WW2. It was the only way of protecting themselves from (guess who ) Russia. Once that threat disappeared they booted the Germans out.

On Sweden do not forget that thousands of Jews were saved from the Nazis by Sweden. I forget the guys name but a Swedish diplomat issued thousands of passports to Jews to keep them out of the clutches of the Nazis - I think he was made an honorary US citizen.

I’m pretty sure that they also shared military intelligence with the allies and gave shelter to thousands of Norwegians who opposed the axis invasion of Norway.

So they weren’t all bad…

If it’s the same guy I’m thinking of was t he also declared Riteous Anong the Nations by Ksreal?

quote:

Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I’m upset with what is going on re Ukraine, but Trump is right, wars are settled by negotiation for the most part.

I fully expect that Ukraine will only agree with what they find acceptable.

However, you keep making the claim that Ukraine is an ally.

They are not. There is no formal alliance with us.

The Budapest agreement was not ratified by the senate.

Yes, that’s a legalistic argument.

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

I get that our allies helped in the GWOT, at least the Afghan part of it.

There is negotiation and allowing a Russia. Trump is allying w Russia.

Sweden was neutral. Did they have to trade w Nazis Germany? No.

Is trading w a war opponent something a neutral does? Yes.

The point is that HerrBerg is making comments on the US not resisting aggression. We were neutral for the first 3 years of the war, yet only were willing to sell/give to the allies.

Sweden chose to sell war materiel to the Nazis.

For them to equate the US in Ukraine to supporting the Nazis seems a bit hypocritical, no?

The Finns allied with Germany in WW2. It was the only way of protecting themselves from (guess who ) Russia. Once that threat disappeared they booted the Germans out.

On Sweden do not forget that thousands of Jews were saved from the Nazis by Sweden. I forget the guys name but a Swedish diplomat issued thousands of passports to Jews to keep them out of the clutches of the Nazis - I think he was made an honorary US citizen.

I’m pretty sure that they also shared military intelligence with the allies and gave shelter to thousands of Norwegians who opposed the axis invasion of Norway.

So they weren’t all bad…

If it’s the same guy I’m thinking of was t he also declared Riteous Anong the Nations by Ksreal?

The guy you talk about is Raoul Wallenberg, who disappeared after being stopped at a russian checkpoint.

quote:

Originally posted by HerrBerg:

quote:

Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I’m upset with what is going on re Ukraine, but Trump is right, wars are settled by negotiation for the most part.

I fully expect that Ukraine will only agree with what they find acceptable.

However, you keep making the claim that Ukraine is an ally.

They are not. There is no formal alliance with us.

The Budapest agreement was not ratified by the senate.

Yes, that’s a legalistic argument.

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

I get that our allies helped in the GWOT, at least the Afghan part of it.

There is negotiation and allowing a Russia. Trump is allying w Russia.

Sweden was neutral. Did they have to trade w Nazis Germany? No.

Is trading w a war opponent something a neutral does? Yes.

The point is that HerrBerg is making comments on the US not resisting aggression. We were neutral for the first 3 years of the war, yet only were willing to sell/give to the allies.

Sweden chose to sell war materiel to the Nazis.

For them to equate the US in Ukraine to supporting the Nazis seems a bit hypocritical, no?

The Finns allied with Germany in WW2. It was the only way of protecting themselves from (guess who ) Russia. Once that threat disappeared they booted the Germans out.

On Sweden do not forget that thousands of Jews were saved from the Nazis by Sweden. I forget the guys name but a Swedish diplomat issued thousands of passports to Jews to keep them out of the clutches of the Nazis - I think he was made an honorary US citizen.

I’m pretty sure that they also shared military intelligence with the allies and gave shelter to thousands of Norwegians who opposed the axis invasion of Norway.

So they weren’t all bad…

If it’s the same guy I’m thinking of was t he also declared Riteous Anong the Nations by Ksreal?

The guy you talk about is Raoul Wallenberg, who disappeared after being stopped at a russian checkpoint.

I looked it up yesterday and he was not the person I was thinking of.

A total of 10 Swedes have been accorded that honor.

For reference over 7000 poles have been so honored.

quote:

These folks want to and have been fighting him. We need to support them, and remove Russia from the international community. That is a lot cheaper than doing it the Full Monty way. He is not going to just stop.

Kinda hard to remove Russia from the international community when Europe keeps,buying fossil fuels from them.....

Europe finances Russia to invade and expects us to finance their protection....


.

quote:

Originally posted by HerrBerg:

quote:

Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I’m upset with what is going on re Ukraine, but Trump is right, wars are settled by negotiation for the most part.

I fully expect that Ukraine will only agree with what they find acceptable.

However, you keep making the claim that Ukraine is an ally.

They are not. There is no formal alliance with us.

The Budapest agreement was not ratified by the senate.

Yes, that’s a legalistic argument.

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

I get that our allies helped in the GWOT, at least the Afghan part of it.

There is negotiation and allowing a Russia. Trump is allying w Russia.

Sweden was neutral. Did they have to trade w Nazis Germany? No.

Is trading w a war opponent something a neutral does? Yes.

The point is that HerrBerg is making comments on the US not resisting aggression. We were neutral for the first 3 years of the war, yet only were willing to sell/give to the allies.

Sweden chose to sell war materiel to the Nazis.

For them to equate the US in Ukraine to supporting the Nazis seems a bit hypocritical, no?

The Finns allied with Germany in WW2. It was the only way of protecting themselves from (guess who ) Russia. Once that threat disappeared they booted the Germans out.

On Sweden do not forget that thousands of Jews were saved from the Nazis by Sweden. I forget the guys name but a Swedish diplomat issued thousands of passports to Jews to keep them out of the clutches of the Nazis - I think he was made an honorary US citizen.

I’m pretty sure that they also shared military intelligence with the allies and gave shelter to thousands of Norwegians who opposed the axis invasion of Norway.

So they weren’t all bad…

If it’s the same guy I’m thinking of was t he also declared Riteous Anong the Nations by Ksreal?

The guy you talk about is Raoul Wallenberg, who disappeared after being stopped at a russian checkpoint.

That was who I was thinking of -

“He saved thousands of Jews in German-occupied Hungary during the Holocaust from German Nazis and Hungarian fascists during the later stages of World War II. While serving as Sweden's special envoy in Budapest between July and December 1944, Wallenberg issued protective passports and sheltered Jews in buildings which he declared as Swedish territory”

Arrested and murdered by guess who … Russia.

Not Russia. The Soviets.

Stalin was a Georgian.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by HerrBerg:

quote:

Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I’m upset with what is going on re Ukraine, but Trump is right, wars are settled by negotiation for the most part.

I fully expect that Ukraine will only agree with what they find acceptable.

However, you keep making the claim that Ukraine is an ally.

They are not. There is no formal alliance with us.

The Budapest agreement was not ratified by the senate.

Yes, that’s a legalistic argument.

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

I get that our allies helped in the GWOT, at least the Afghan part of it.

There is negotiation and allowing a Russia. Trump is allying w Russia.

Sweden was neutral. Did they have to trade w Nazis Germany? No.

Is trading w a war opponent something a neutral does? Yes.

The point is that HerrBerg is making comments on the US not resisting aggression. We were neutral for the first 3 years of the war, yet only were willing to sell/give to the allies.

Sweden chose to sell war materiel to the Nazis.

For them to equate the US in Ukraine to supporting the Nazis seems a bit hypocritical, no?

The Finns allied with Germany in WW2. It was the only way of protecting themselves from (guess who ) Russia. Once that threat disappeared they booted the Germans out.

On Sweden do not forget that thousands of Jews were saved from the Nazis by Sweden. I forget the guys name but a Swedish diplomat issued thousands of passports to Jews to keep them out of the clutches of the Nazis - I think he was made an honorary US citizen.

I’m pretty sure that they also shared military intelligence with the allies and gave shelter to thousands of Norwegians who opposed the axis invasion of Norway.

So they weren’t all bad…

If it’s the same guy I’m thinking of was t he also declared Riteous Anong the Nations by Ksreal?

The guy you talk about is Raoul Wallenberg, who disappeared after being stopped at a russian checkpoint.

That was who I was thinking of -

“He saved thousands of Jews in German-occupied Hungary during the Holocaust from German Nazis and Hungarian fascists during the later stages of World War II. While serving as Sweden's special envoy in Budapest between July and December 1944, Wallenberg issued protective passports and sheltered Jews in buildings which he declared as Swedish territory”

Arrested and murdered by guess who … Russia.

KGB, FSB, Lubyanka ... Stalin, Putin ... same shit different day.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
KGB, FSB, Lubyanka ... Stalin, Putin ... same shit different day.

well as of today not exactly depending whih country you are from ... those friends are not the best you can have for sure ...

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I’m upset with what is going on re Ukraine, but Trump is right, wars are settled by negotiation for the most part.

I fully expect that Ukraine will only agree with what they find acceptable.

However, you keep making the claim that Ukraine is an ally.

They are not. There is no formal alliance with us.

The Budapest agreement was not ratified by the senate.

Yes, that’s a legalistic argument.

What was Sweden’s justification for helping arm the aggressor in WWII?

I get that our allies helped in the GWOT, at least the Afghan part of it.

There is negotiation and allowing a Russia. Trump is allying w Russia.

Sweden was neutral. Did they have to trade w Nazis Germany? No.

Is trading w a war opponent something a neutral does? Yes.

The point is that HerrBerg is making comments on the US not resisting aggression. We were neutral for the first 3 years of the war, yet only were willing to sell/give to the allies.

Sweden chose to sell war materiel to the Nazis.

For them to equate the US in Ukraine to supporting the Nazis seems a bit hypocritical, no?

Again, there is a difference in negotiating and allying w the aggressor country.

I see nothing of negotiation, but Trump Administration working to exclude Ukraine from peace negotiations, and force complication.

Chamberlain enabled Nazis. We, through this Administration are enabling thugs generations Hitler. Hitler bring a rouge actor out to destroy and engage in wars of conquest against international agreements.

I think what the Trump Administration is doing is worse than you identify above. I did not vote for him, but the diverging people bound a majority of the states delegates to him. He is feee to play Chamberlain to Putin’s Hitler. He said he would, and we voted for him. Americans on a whole do not care about Ukraine at all.

We get the government we bore for, and we got it.

I have laid out the frame work of a peace I support that if Ukraine refused, then I would walk away from Ukraine. This let Russia remain in mainland Ukraine just to start again in about 5 years so having Ukraine in the room ain’t it.

I am willing to help anyone who wants to kill Russians for us. That is not a voting majority view.

When the U.S. withdraws its post WWII safety net, we will see nation states engage in rearming, arms races, possibly proliferation of nuclear weapons, and less security.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
We saved the whole of Europe TWICE.......

WW1 116,516
WW2 291,557
Korea 36,514
Vietnam 58,220
Afghanistan 2,459

All. fighting for other's. I guess WW2 was somewhat of an exception in the Pacific, but not Europe.

A simple "Thank You" would be nice.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
We saved the whole of Europe TWICE.......

WW1 116,516
WW2 291,557
Korea 36,514
Vietnam 58,220
Afghanistan 2,459

All. fighting for other's. I guess WW2 was somewhat of an exception in the Pacific, but not Europe.

A simple "Thank You" would be nice.

there are some wars you decided on your own in the name of freedom so yes thank you for those sacrifices ...

but as of today there is no thank you when you are attacking your closest neighbour and friend and secondly in supporting putin that is the enemy but certainly you did not get the memo ...

by the way once we are not counting the fuel/oil, electricity and natural gas in the economic balance we are more buying than you ... imagine if we are starting to find new partners ... or visiting less your country ...

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
We saved the whole of Europe TWICE.......

WW1 116,516
WW2 291,557
Korea 36,514
Vietnam 58,220
Afghanistan 2,459

All. fighting for other's. I guess WW2 was somewhat of an exception in the Pacific, but not Europe.

A simple "Thank You" would be nice.

Out of curiosity. Who owes you the thank you?

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
We saved the whole of Europe TWICE.......

WW1 116,516
WW2 291,557
Korea 36,514
Vietnam 58,220
Afghanistan 2,459

All. fighting for other's. I guess WW2 was somewhat of an exception in the Pacific, but not Europe.

A simple "Thank You" would be nice.

Along with paying back all of those wartime loans.