My takeaway from another thread is that people have very different ideas about heaven. I guess I should write it with a capital "H" to distinguish the real and final Heaven from my favorite trout stream.

My upbringing in a mixed Catholic/Lutheran house portrayed Heaven as a wonderful place where you get your body back, young and in the prime, where you can be with loved ones who have passed before, and where you can land monster trout on 7x tippets, with nary a wind-knot.

Both my paternal and maternal families, the Protestants and Catholics, agree on this aspect of Heaven. You can do anything, have anything you want there.

I was suspicious for a while. I'd come to think of Heaven as one big, never-ending church service. And I hated going to church.

"So I can do bad things and not be punished?" I asked my Mom on one rainy day. The budding lawyer, looking for a way out.

"Jimmy (only my mom gets to call me that), you won't WANT to do bad things there."

I had mixed feelings about that bit of news. Lots of times, I'd learned, bad things were the most interesting things to do. And if I didn't WANT to do bad things, ever again, then somebody was controlling my mind. After pondering the matter for a while, I decided that it was still a pretty dang good deal, if I could spend every day fishing and hunting pheasants.

Sadly, I had to surrender my vision of Heaven when I recovered from the religion virus at around age 17. And now, for the final nail in the coffin of my religiosity, LHeym has suggested my families' view of Heaven is wrong. He says it consists of everlasting joy in the presence of God, singing hymns and Hosannas, with apparently no body or individuality. You will be assimilated as part of the Collective. (Forgive me for paraphrasing, LHeym, but I don't recall your exact words.) There will be no husbands and wives, nor any need to have sex, flyfish, or shoot pheasants. To which I say: Bah! Humbug! If that's Heaven, you can have it.

There seems to be little agreement about Heaven, maybe because no one who's ever seen the place has come back to tell about it. But that doesn't stop fantasizing and speculation. I'm curious what others think about Heaven, and would like to hear their thoughts what Heaven is like. If you have Scriptural support (Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or others) for your view, hit us with that too.

To keep this political, do you suppose they hold elections in Heaven? Has God ever run against Satan for the title of "Master of the Universe"? Are all the voters idiots? Or is the place governed, as I suspect, by a monarchy?

If Heaven is governed as a monarchy, do you suppose Saeed will get to be a prince there?

What a masterfully written script Roland (notice I didn’t call you Jimmy ).

I am impressed with your writing skills.

Thanks!

Jimmy good filosofer

From what I understand, Heyms view is the same as the mormons.

I thought Mormons believe that each male member of the church would, after death, be allotted his own world to be God of.

I go to heaven every year.

The minute our charter lands in the bush!

Heaven lasts 21 days!

Here is a citation for my position

[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. [30] For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

How can my father be there as my earthly when he is not married or given marriage?

There is another New Testament scripture about a new name.

Of course, in the Second resurrection the versus are clear this body is rejoined to the soul and transfigured into a perfect being that is not what we are here.

See I Corinthians 15:51-52; I Corinthians 15:53-54.

Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

This Earth and the things of the Earth are doomed by Man’s hand to pass away. The Wheat must be separated from the Shaft. Heaven is not a place LHeym500 would like to go visit. Because, like the inside of the Temple, Heaven is not made for him.

The closest thing this person had to bring in Haven was the Garden, and I, humanity, could not stay there after sun entered and Satan was condemned to the war of the dust. If we believe biblical imagery, man is made of dust. Scientifically, that is partially true being a carbon based life form. Satan is to eat of this man, this Earth.

While the elect, bride of Christ, saved, use what term you want will join in perfect wedding feast. Citation omitted (common knowledge of versus).

Death in the Scriptures means separation.


When God said to Adam, “Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die” (Genesis 2:16-17); the verb “to die” has two parts meaning:

For the physical part, Adam’s physical body would be separated from his spiritual body, which is the spirit, and from the self, which is the soul. That is called physical death. When the death of the physical body occurs, the physical body gradually disintegrates, returning to the dust of the earth; that is, the chemical elements that were used to create it. The spiritual body is the spirit that returns to God, who gave it to the human body (Ecclesiastes 12:7). The self, which is the soul, is imprisoned in hell, waiting for the day to be reunited with the resurrected physical body (Luke 16:19-31).

For the spiritual part, the spiritual body, which is Adam’s spirit, and the self, which is his soul, are separated from God. When a person is separated from God, he loses his God-given privileges and is punished for breaking God’s commandments. This punishment involves suffering in life. If he does not repent for his sins and accept God’s salvation before his physical body dies, he will suffer in the afterlife indefinitely.

Thus, Hell is a similar dichotomy (right word?). Everyone focuses on the physical pain: thirst, gnashing of teeth, where the work die naught, Lake of fire. What is being thirst for? Communion, connection to God.

If Hell were 73 degrees, with a 10 mph breeze, Hell would still be unmeasurable torment because God’s creation which has been resurrected in corporation, and eternally separated from him, that contains a part of him, is forever removed, excommunicated from Him. Jesus felt this when God turned from Jesus on the Cross.

Haven is concerned with that perfect alignment and communion with the Unified God. Those, I will say we, who arrive their, arrive to something we barley comprehend and experience here when we get the sights lined up to be in Communion with God and one another who are likewise so focused. That is why Church for the saved, member of the bride, again use whatever word or phrase you want, is important. It is a JV production of Heaven presented through an imperfect, darkened glass. That is another conversion.

When I think about it as a person, no more than any other animal grazing on this Earth, I do not find it enjoyable either. If I were all powerful, none of you would she and die. We would all live here in this Sinful state. If I were all powerful, then it may not be Sinful. Again, that is another conversation.

This we see is not what was supposed to be. We broke it. God fixed it so we could get back and get back perfect. The fix is Jesus and salvation (if you are a Christian). Part of the fix is removing this corruption. This broken thing. None of that is going to get there.

Hope that explains my position. No one had to agree, but there it is.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
From what I understand, Heyms view is the same as the mormons.

My view is not the same as Mormons. At least, not fundamentalist Mormons. I do not know a lot about the Church of Later Day Saints to say what their view of Heaven is.

For the record, I am Missionary Baptist. However, Baptist are not hierarchical. My Church is recognized by the KY Baptist Association, and Southern Baptist Association, but no one on either side cares.

I’m there right now, northern Finland. Breathtakingly beautiful, tho prob not for you if you don’t like the cold.

Heaven is a good Super Cub on floats, a hidden lake full of fish and an adjacent mountain with abundant sheep and caribou, and a complete absence of people.

Amazingly, I don’t need Jesus or Allah or Brahma or Zeus or Elohim to achieve it!

Heaven is one's eternal soul in the presence of the Lord.

Heaven is where the Sky Daddy lives, the place with the pearly gates, angels floating about, playing harps and such.

I would generally agree with Rolland's childhood view. I can only hope and of course only have this earthly mind to hope with so my vision is a bit narrow.

I was thinking I have little say in the matter and that's fine. I'm doing the best I can in this life regardless promises of the afterlife and upon death I'll be transported to where I'm wanted, dirt and silence, Heaven or Hell. I doubt I'll be in charge.

I was once told, Heaven is a place where smoking helps your lungs, whiskey makes you smarter, and your wife only cares for your happiness. Regards Bill.

I have no idea what heaven is.

I have my hopes…

But fundamentally it is supposed to be a connection with God and not the punishment that not being saved is. I’m not sure exactly what hell is, either. It may just be you are no more. I don’t know.

The Bible is full of allegory, and while Jesus makes it clear that it is a good place, his statements about what it is could well be allegorical or literal. I guess we will find out when we find out… after all we all end up dying at some point.

So, creation could be allegory?

Not everything is a symbol.

In the context of those marriage verses Jesus is responding to a direct question.

So, can I look forward to 40 virgins ?

Grizz

I'm going from memory here, so I might get some of this wrong.

When Jesus was on the cross, one of the thieves on a cross beside him said something (I forget what) kindly to Jesus, who responded that the thief shall be that day "in Paradise."

Leaving aside how the English word "Paradise" translates from the Hebrew or Greek, doesn't the above incident suggest that to Jesus, "Heaven" and "Paradise" are synonymous?

So Heaven must be a paradise. Since everyone's idea of Paradise is different, can it be that Heaven will be different for every person? Maybe I may find myself walking slowly through a field, holding a shotgun, while a good springer works the tall brown grass in front of me.

LHeym, you need an editor, dammit man!

quote:

So Heaven must be a paradise. Since everyone's idea of Paradise is different, can it be that Heaven will be different for every person? Maybe I may find myself walking slowly through a field, holding a shotgun, while a good springer works the tall brown grass in front of me.

It also could be that as good as we've had it here, springers..pheasants and such.....we have no idea of what true paradise actually is.....


.

quote:

LHeym, you need an editor, dammit man!

He needs something for sure....maybe some real life experience??!!

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
I'm going from memory here, so I might get some of this wrong.

When Jesus was on the cross, one of the thieves on a cross beside him said something (I forget what) kindly to Jesus, who responded that the thief shall be that day "in Paradise."

Leaving aside how the English word "Paradise" translates from the Hebrew or Greek, doesn't the above incident suggest that to Jesus, "Heaven" and "Paradise" are synonymous?

So Heaven must be a paradise. Since everyone's idea of Paradise is different, can it be that Heaven will be different for every person? Maybe I may find myself walking slowly through a field, holding a shotgun, while a good springer works the tall brown grass in front of me.

LHeym, you need an editor, dammit man!

If anyone thinks they can do better on an IPhone be my guest.

Actually, reading back over that one is pretty good.

Haven is not paradise for this creature.

You typed all that on an iPhone?

quote:

If anyone thinks they can do better on an IPhone be my guest.

well-
the majority of us do