https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/0...n-workers/index.html

That means he admits he lied.

I just cannot understand how someone could be so dumb as to make such accusations as were thrown around after the election. Giulliani, Sidney whatever her name was, Trump and the morons from FOX ... all trotting out the same implausible bullshit, knowing its all bullshit.

How hard is it to realise that the truth will bite them in the arse.

Does it mean he knew it at the time?

Kind of shows that truth is an absolute, correct?

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Does it mean he knew it at the time?

Kind of shows that truth is an absolute, correct?

He called them ballot stuffing criminals. Since basically everything every single trump-affiliated lawyer/adviser said during that time period about election fraud was completely made up, I'm guessing he knew at the time.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Does it mean he knew it at the time?

Kind of shows that truth is an absolute, correct?

Yes, it means he knew he was lying when he said it. He is now arguing he did not cause damages.

That is what defamation of a non public figure means. I am lying about you and publishing those lies to the public.

If that’s the case, then he’s toast and an idiot on top of it all.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If that’s the case, then he’s toast and an idiot on top of it all.

Just now coming to that conclusion?

Pretty obvious to me since long before the 2020 election.

I presumed he was given information by people he trusted… kind of like how I trusted his word. Or you seem to trust the FBI.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I presumed he was given information by people he trusted… kind of like how I trusted his word. Or you seem to trust the FBI.

I seriously doubt your claim to such naivety. You are not that stupid.

Really?

Giuliani is a lawyer, presumptively he was a good one as he was a U.S. (federal government) attorney.

Making up crap and defaming people is criminal, and I would think he knew so. I thought initially that team Trump couldn’t be so stupid as to flat out lie about all of the claims they made.

When they refused to present evidence, and continued to double down on the claims was part of my disillusionment with Trump. Once he was shown to have made up things, it required me to reassess my entire thought on the man.

I believed that if the folks like Guiliani were wrong, it was an honest mistake and believing bad sources. Now, no. Guiliani is on the list of toxic folks if he is admitting to lying all along.

It was already known for quite some time that Rudy had gone off the deep end. Nobody outside of the maga cult believed him on anything.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Really?

Giuliani is a lawyer, presumptively he was a good one as he was a U.S. (federal government) attorney.

Making up crap and defaming people is criminal, and I would think he knew so. I thought initially that team Trump couldn’t be so stupid as to flat out lie about all of the claims they made.

When they refused to present evidence, and continued to double down on the claims was part of my disillusionment with Trump. Once he was shown to have made up things, it required me to reassess my entire thought on the man.

I believed that if the folks like Guiliani were wrong, it was an honest mistake and believing bad sources. Now, no. Guiliani is on the list of toxic folks if he is admitting to lying all along.

Well, there is no if to it. He is toast. Defamation itself is not a crime. It is a tort. He has lost his license in DC and New York as well.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Really?

Giuliani is a lawyer, presumptively he was a good one as he was a U.S. (federal government) attorney.

Making up crap and defaming people is criminal, and I would think he knew so. I thought initially that team Trump couldn’t be so stupid as to flat out lie about all of the claims they made.

When they refused to present evidence, and continued to double down on the claims was part of my disillusionment with Trump. Once he was shown to have made up things, it required me to reassess my entire thought on the man.

I believed that if the folks like Guiliani were wrong, it was an honest mistake and believing bad sources. Now, no. Guiliani is on the list of toxic folks if he is admitting to lying all along.

Right. "Reassessing" at this point, eh?

Otherwise known as eating crow. Maybe you ought to reassess all of the bullshit that trump republicans are shoveling.

But, you won't.

Hey, when I am wrong, I am wrong, and I can admit it...

You’re just now coming to these conclusions about Giuliano? I don’t buy it.

quote:

Once he was shown to have made up things, it required me to reassess my entire thought on the man.

If that's the test it was blatantly bloody obvious Trump couldn't help himself from doing it even before he was elected. Can't remember any actual facts to support whatever crap he was spouting so he just make some stuff up.

Evidently less than half of those who voted either had sufficient integrity to apply that test or they were too stupid to see what was right there in front of themselves.

Actually, while I knew Trump had some issues, I thought they weren’t as bad as they proved to be. I thought Hillary and Biden were worse. I still do, especially with regards to policy and where they want to take the country, but Trump managed to get himself to the point I can’t vote for him. That he believes the rule of law doesn’t apply to him makes it even if his policies were perfection itself, I can’t support him.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Once he was shown to have made up things, it required me to reassess my entire thought on the man.

If that's the test it was blatantly bloody obvious Trump couldn't help himself from doing it even before he was elected. Can't remember any actual facts to support whatever crap he was spouting so he just make some stuff up.

Evidently less than half of those who voted either had sufficient integrity to apply that test or they were too stupid to see what was right there in front of themselves.

Do Hillary or Joe want to give themselves dictatorial powers? That’s is trump’s stated goal. No one does that with the idea of handing over power like that when their term is over. He wants to be dictator for life. I would damn sure take a democrat over a dictator. Fuck that piece of shit.

You still support Trump’s policies? Are you fucking serious. He wants to get rid of the Justice dept and FBI. He promises to exact revenge on his political enemies like has never been seen before.

Biden is so bad? Economy is soaring. Revitalized NATO. Illegal immigration is down 70%. The guy who you love his policies increased the national debt the 3rd highest of any president.

Tell us CR, what policies that you liked so much.

Three observations:

1) Crbutler has stated he cannot support President Trump’s bid for the a second term. I appreciate that relization.

2) While Giuliani has been sanctioned numerous times and his claims dismissed in Court, I have no issue taking him at his words this particular event has caused him to reassess his position on what I read not just Giuliani, but the entire election lie.

And

3 President Trump is in no way superior to President Obama. President Obama despite a lot a public pressure never entertained delivering the election to a defeated Hilary Clinton. President Bid never gave his VP an unconstitutional directive to overturn the election. VP Biden hammered down every objection in Congress to President Trump’s election win certification. President Trump refused, and I believe me lied, to provide requested documents he knew he had. Hilary Clinton was found by the FBI to fully cooperate. President Trump is on audio appearing to show some those documents to celebrate guests. President Trump refused to defend the Capital, Congress, the Election, my Government, and my Constitution from a violent mob bent to keep President Trumps in power he had no right to keep. This ignores President Trump’s position on how women can be treated based on celebrity of the male (He swore to it under oath).

There is no policy that washes away these sins.

I said it before. I will say it until I die. President Obama loved the United States. President Trump does not. President Trump only loves himself.

When he ran against Clinton he stated he was going to lower taxes. I liked that. I feel I pay too high a percentage, and as someone who is only paid a salary, I have no accesses to deductions that independent contractors or business owners have.

While his approach was flawed, he at least was willing to do something about illegal immigration. It’s down 70% now? Compared to when? I’d call BS on that one.

I liked his approach of reducing regulation. I’m not against all regulation, and agree his approach had several flaws, but neither Biden or Clinton have reduced any of it.

I brought in to the claims that Trump Jr. Made that DJT would improve things with regard to hunting. That was a mistake.

Overall, I find Trump’s appointments to various positions superior to Biden’s. Sorry, but other than the abortion decision, I find all of Trump’s SCOTUS appointments better than Biden’s one. Of course, I’m not a lawyer, so that probably influences me.

I think you can lay the economy solely on Trump. (That’s not a positive, but its improvement has zero to do with Biden, his party’s spending has made it worse). The disaster that was the economy in Covid was Trump’s, and Biden dragged his feet on reopening things, and that is entirely what is bringing the improvements we see. The inflation can be blamed on both, as Trump started the handouts, and Biden doubled down on it.

Biden and the democrats own the loss of law and order. They did not slap down the refund the police crap, and while Trump certainly didn’t help things, he didn’t obstruct law enforcement until 1/6.

The election and its aftermath is purely Trump and his advisors. I would note his appointees have not obstructed the election process. Biden by the way, while he didn’t obstruct Trump’s election, did say some similar things to what Trump said when he lost. I don’t credit Joe any more than you all credit Pence. I give the credit to Obama. As much as I disliked his policies, he insisted that the election be run by the rules.

The only thing Biden has done that I agree with is support NATO. I don’t think he’s running it as it’s been too smooth for Joe to be involved much. And frankly, if NATO had done what Trump pushed for- footing their share of the military spending- maybe Ukraine would have a better position re weapons available to be shipped. That is Obama and Biden’s fault. Their “superior” dealing with our allies allowed western defensive posture decline.

It’s yet another example of Trump’s execution of decent policy goals being a colossal disappointment… which does seem to be a common thread with him.

Well, Doc, Trump promises to fix all his first term shortcomings and disappointments if elected again, by turning the country to fascism.

Millions of Americans approve of that. And it may not matter if it's Trump or a clone.

Those fundamental facts supersede all considerations of GOP policy IMO.

Funny how nobody caught the new version of illegal immigration numbers BS talk.
The numbers are down "BETWEEN PORTS OF ENTRY" that is what people are missing. Numbers are still high, but they are at the ports now, instead of crossing anywhere and being transported to entry ports for processing. The barriers put up have been making a difference.

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
You still support Trump’s policies? Are you fucking serious. He wants to get rid of the Justice dept and FBI. He promises to exact revenge on his political enemies like has never been seen before.

Biden is so bad? Economy is soaring. Revitalized NATO. Illegal immigration is down 70%. The guy who you love his policies increased the national debt the 3rd highest of any president.

Tell us CR, what policies that you liked so much.

See above.

Your guy Joe is doing and advocating for the opposite. Now banning funding for archery/trap in schools by his goofy interpretation of an unrelated law.

Not making me vote for Trump now, but Biden is not qualified enough to get my vote, nor is Trump.

quote:

Originally posted by straightshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
You still support Trump’s policies? Are you fucking serious. He wants to get rid of the Justice dept and FBI. He promises to exact revenge on his political enemies like has never been seen before.

Biden is so bad? Economy is soaring. Revitalized NATO. Illegal immigration is down 70%. The guy who you love his policies increased the national debt the 3rd highest of any president.

Tell us CR, what policies that you liked so much.