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 The sad part is that this is reading for a science project in my son’s 7th grade science class. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | ||
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I was surprised to see this show up in a science class in rural Texas for sure. I am going to follow the lesson along and see how it plays out before I weigh in at the school. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I am sorry. What is your specific objections to this material. Live Stock waste in commercial farming is an environmental issue. | |||
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Back when I lived in the northeast the dairy farmers all ran confinement dairies. The cows in production lived indoors on concrete and never saw a pasture again for life. Once a day the cows were pushed outside into a small knee deep pen of mud for enough time to clean out the barn. That mud was surely mixed with urine and feces. The farms all had huge storage tankers and kept waste as liquefied sewage in these containers. Periodically these tanks were emptied into what the locals called shitter trucks. From there the sewage was driven over and sprayed on their corn fields. The smell was so bad you felt like you could not breathe. The stench lingered often for many days. I have to say, confinement dairies are disgusting. The cows always had a layer of manure stuck to their bodies because they had to lay in it. Their legs always had a thick layer of mud stuck to them too. Where I live now cows stay afield and only come inside for milking. None of them are filthy either. None of the pastures smell like shit either. ~Ann   | |||
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Environmentally A confinement dairy like you describe Ann is very sound. But yep Like caged chickens, its not so nice on the animals. On the wider issue NZ as i suspect the US and other nations, are going through massive systematic change to our agriculture industries. Alot of it is innovation driven to meet the desires of our markets. As mentioned above, really big progress is being made on methane emissions and it could well be that in 20 years time we can increase our stock numbers again as we keep on decreasing our methane and carbon emissions. Nutrient runoff is being tackled through changes in how we farm and species we grow as food. NZ is all year outdoor farming in a close to regenerative manor, but some farms now are moving to herd homes where the cows graze on the paddocks, but are then free to wander back to a covered shed with bedding to take shelter from sun or rain etc. Early days yet and like most things, all this change is expensive and requires a mortgage to achieve, so it will take time. The potty training cows though Lane. What Ill say is we have a couple of great agricultural science units that are pretty much free to explore where they will. Lincoln university which is almost exclusively based on agriculture including veterinary training, and Ag research institute. They do some weird shit because they can, and often it comes to nothing, but there has been many breakthroughs for agriculture as well. Alongside thier systems of measuring and defining what and how we produce. So I do not see potty training cows becoming a thing, but its likely that they have learned something from it. Though it is weird that of all the things happening over here on the environmental front, that thats the one that has been picked up on? | |||
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Oh, I bet the folks at the school can't wait.... -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Mike, My family has ranched cattle in North Central Texas since about 1870. My father has a master’s in range management. My family owns and runs one of the largest cattle auctions in North Central Texas — Wichita Livestock Auction. The family collectively ranches south of the Red River from Burk Burnett to Gainesville. I personally am an internationally known large animal veterinarian with board certification and past faculty lecturer at TAMU. A middle school school class talking about biochemistry of cattle…should welcome input of that type…don’t you think? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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you would think,,, but that's probably not their agenda. | |||
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I hope you do weigh in on the school. ~Ann | |||
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I disagree it is not a problem. As Ann and Shankspony has pointed out, it is a problem. The fact is your objection is based on you do not want to see the Government regulate the disposal of waste in commercial farming. I would have to see the proposed regulations/statue to form an opinion. You have already. I like the creative, critical thinking. Just because folks are looking at solutions that were not used in 18 whenever does not make it wrong to look at. Now, if you are going to continue to argue animal waste in commercial farming is not a problem that is your proghtive. Anything posted to refute that pistols you will reject out right because it does not conform to your world view. I can add no more to rebut you than what I said above and Shankspony has said. Animal waste disposal on commercial farming is an issue. Charles P. Gerba, Ian L. Pepper, in Environmental Microbiology (Second Edition), 2009 24.11 PATHOGENS IN ANIMAL MANURES Animal wastes predominantly include manures from cows, pigs, and chickens. Animal wastes are pollutants of increasing concern both to the public and to regulatory bodies because they have the potential to contaminate both surface and groundwater. Animal agricultural wastes can be divided into two production types: range and pasture production, and confined or concentrated animal production. In range and pasture systems, the concentration of wastes is generally much more diffuse or dispersed than it is when large numbers of animals are confined to relatively small areas. Range and pasture systems have two principal effects on surface water quality: (1) increased turbidity through the movement of soil particles into streams, rivers, and lakes; and (2) increased fecal coliform counts in areas of heavy animal use. In the past, animals were concentrated only intermittently. The period of confinement was a transitory phase followed by a return to pasture, after such management activities as milking or shearing. However, animal production is occurring in increasingly controlled environments owing to the success of efforts to raise productivity and diminish climatic, feeding, and mortality variables. Larger numbers of animals are being raised in concentrated animal feeding operations or CAFOs—principally, feedlots, dairies, swine operations, poultry houses, and intensive aquaculture. The number of CAFOs more than doubled from 1982 to 1997, increasing from 5,000 to 11,200. Almost every county in the United States has a CAFO with more than 10,000 animals. This shift in production methods has changed the age-old method of reincorporation of animal wastes as manure on the farm where it was produced. Specialization has largely divorced animal production from the production of crops: a concentrated animal facility may be located far from crop production, and the same family (or the same corporation) may not pursue the two types of production. The production of large numbers of animals on a small land base has resulted in the stockpiling of wastes at specific locations, the construction of large waste-storage ponds, and oftentimes, waste applications to land in excess of agronomic crop needs. More than 150 microbial pathogens have been identified from all animal species that can be transmitted to man (Gerba and Smith, 2005). Pathogens can be transmitted from animals to humans when manure is used as a fertilizer for food crops eaten raw and by storm water runoff from manured areas or by percolation to groundwater. Pathogens commonly associated with produce and surface water contamination include Escherichia coli O157:H7, Campylobacter, Salmonella, Listeria monocytogenes, and Cryptosporidium parvum. Manure should be composted to effectively eliminate pathogens and applied appropriately to minimize contamination. Summary of peer reviewed publication. Yes, it is an issue. I have learned a lot from you Dr. Easter. It all dissolves to, if we did not do it in the 18 whatever then it should be done that way today. No, you are not going to “house break” a cow, but the highlighted question who animal waste affects the environment is a legitimate question for children who live in commercial farming state to think about. They will be tasked with addressing the problem as industry professionals or have “solutions dictated” that would not be the best options if they refuse to contribute. | |||
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Not scholarly, but good reporting on the issue of animal waste and commercial farming. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/a...-environment-suffers I look at commercial farming like non hunters, but not anti hunters look at Hunting Conservation. It is necessary, but there must be a balance in regulation. | |||
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Joshua, I am sure right now you are feeling proud of yourself for copying and pasting a summary of one of thousands or scientific papers on animal waste. One thing I have learned about you is that you really don’t understand science and are incapable of actual scientific discussion. You simply read things and take them at face value. Your large copy and past post really didn’t touch on any specific problems talked about in the project I cited — in which the topic was greenhouse gases. My citation mainly spoke about the biochemical evolution of bovine urine into ammonium and methane emission. Your rebuttal actually revealed that you failed to comprehend the gist of my complaint at all. Yes yes, we have known for generations that pathogenic microorganisms live comensal with livestock and even humans. We have a good understanding of how to manipulate waste to be safely recycled — the gist of your article. I will even concede that animal waste in the spirit of your article “could be” a problem…albeit a pretty well understood one and one in which mitigation strategies are currently in place and have been for scores. It only resurfaces due to the fact of the burgeoning human population and the need to feed them. It takes intense strategies to take a finite piece of real-estate and make it feed and ever growing human bio-mass — the real problem. If you want to re-read my complaint and recompile a rebuttal that actually addresses the gist of my concerns about the science project I will be happy to debate further. To make it easy for you…I will recap: 1) Impracticality (actual ridiculous impracticality) 2) waste of of money and resources (that could be going to good science) 3) a problem (greenhouse gas from bovine urine) that may not exist or even if it does…near the bottom in significance to the earth in the grand scheme 4) I see it as a form of brain-washing the young developing mind 5) with all the good apolitical unquestioned good science to talk about…why pick this one (answer: see #4) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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CAFO's need to do a better job with composting waste. I honestly hate CAFO's anyway, they are extremely inhumane. Small outfits with free ranging stock are the way to go. Our society needs to place more value on small farms, retention of farmland rather than destroying it for urban sprawl. Land has gotten so expensive that not many younger people can buy a farm to contribute to our economy. There are simply too many consumers now and that trend will increase. With free range there are many natural systems that take care of manure dispersed afield, invertebrates, fungi, etc that break it down as nature intended. I compost what comes out of the barn and loafing sheds. Chickens get into the compost pile and turn it, break it down. Some gets used for mushroom growing, some for the vegetable garden. Perfect system. BTW- I collected two dozen eggs yesterday. With hens finished up on molt and day length increasing, egg production is increasing fast. I saw the prices two days ago at the store and noticed several people just standing there staring at that. Glad I was able to walk on by... ~Ann | |||
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Alot of truth in that Ann. I think over here My farm would be considered a CAFO if its about number of animals per hectare. The truth is though intensive farming is the only economic option unless people want to pay much more for thier food. And we have the same issue where young people can not get into farming because of cost. Plus nowadays the lifestyle re hours worked and income are not that attractive. The small farm should be the ideal where large amounts of the farm income gos back into the community. But we seem forced to enlarge and go corporate and more and more people lose affinity with rural people and lifestyles. I actually have some way out there ideas on what farming should become, and would have loved to get to a position where I could implement them, however time and govt policy has meant I probably never will. I got started with my organic farm shop selling our meat on farm, But Covid quickly put an end to that. | |||
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Lane and shanks will nod their heads with what I am about to say. Heym will try to find a law statute he can quote, and say nothing else matters. People want cheap food, period. The cheapest way is with big outfits. The cost per unit, whether a bushel of wheat, gallon of milk or package of burger, is less the bigger the operation. Big farms are the most economical. Add to that, many have corporate money involved as they are a good tax write off. The big dairies use a slurry pit, all animal waste is pumped into a pit. A crust forms on top, trapping all the urea and methane in the tank or pit under it, where the pump just pushes the crust upwards. When the time comes to empty the pit, it has to be agitated to a liquid form. yes it stinks! The ideal, is the waste is tilled into the soil the same day as it is spread to capture all the nutrients.Every day it is not, is lost good ness. Some big farms have lines burried underground to pump the slurry right to the fields, so no nutrients are lost. The other thing big cattle operations can do, and is becoming more common. Methane digesters. The methane is burned off, creating electricity and heat. It can be sold to the power grid, and the heat dries what is left. That has no bacteria left, and can be used as bedding in the housing areas for the cattle. It can be spread or sold as compost also. It has lost the nitrogen and other nutrients, so fertilizer has to be bought to make up for it on farms that crop too. If all feed is brought in, it's an easy, smell free way of disposing of waste. There are new ideas coming along all the time. If a farm stays stagnant, they will be out in a very short time. See it all the time. Then people complain that there are just second homes for city people where the land was open and farmed just a few years ago. | |||
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Looks like we were typing at the same time shanks!  | |||
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Hammer meet nail! | |||
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Yes its amazing how the same things are effecting us all no matter where in the world we are, and also how the powers that be dont want to listen or work with those who Know. Because its the harder route and they want change with expedience. | |||
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To some extent, if we abolish the utilities of scale in farming, we will be unable to feed ourselves, let alone have an excess. Ann has a fairly self sufficient lifestyle. How many people could the US have if that was how we were living? The small family farm’s reduced pollution is solely the result of decreased density. It’s better for pollution, quality of life for the livestock, better quality produce, but more expensive, less productive, and unable to provide a social safety net. I suspect that even folks like Ann need additional income to make it on a small farm. Fuel, medicine, equipment, etc are not free. | |||
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All^^^100% spot on. My family ranches exactly in the opposite direction. Our goal is to utilize ground unsuitable for other things and turn grass into beef without changing the environment. IE: We try to keep natural native grass habitat and promote wild game growth at the same time. We do send cattle to the feedlot though where more intesne waste management is needed. But the guys in the Panhandle of Texas coop with the crop farmers and have that down to an art these days. Make no mistake about it though the general population wants cheap food and drives CAFOs --they are here to stay. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The family farm is efficient enough and can supply enough as long as you dont load it with regulation and compliance that forces change at an unrealistic rate. Corperate farms have the ability to hire compliance staff and the ability to spend large amounts of money for relatively small positive return on the dollar spent. The upside of family farms is the return too the community of people invested locally. Create an environment where the family farm can compete on an even footing and holistically you will be more innovative and able to withstand hardships while providing food security. | |||
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