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Proposal ATF2022R-17 Login/Join 
Huvius
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posted
Proposal to amend/change many definitions as they pertain to being a "dealer" or "engaging in the business" of gun sales and setting licensing requirements.

A long read, but if this passes, we are in for a lot of pain and confusion.
I'm collecting my thoughts on this which I will explain later but I'd like to hear the Lawyer opinions on it as well.

https://www.federalregister.go...a-dealer-in-firearms
 
Posts: 3394 | Location: Colorado U.S.A. | Registered: 24 December 2004Reply With Quote
Jefffive
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Seems like simple loophole closing.

If you are buying guns to use or add to a collection, or selling guns you no longer need, you don't need a license.

If you are buying or selling guns to make a profit you need a license.

It also relieves country auctioneers of the need for the "We're selling this cup but it comes with a free rifle" bullshit when selling an estate.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 11018 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
DuggaBoye
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quote:
If you are buying or selling guns to make a profit you need a license.


not exactly-

if you need to sell foe medical reason or retiring --
these actions been have construed as "for profit"


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Posts: 4594 | Location: TX | Registered: 03 March 2009Reply With Quote
Jefffive
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quote:
Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
quote:
If you are buying or selling guns to make a profit you need a license.


not exactly-

if you need to sell foe medical reason or retiring --
these actions been have construed as "for profit"


Not according to the proposed Rule you linked to.

I would think a significant factor if a person sells a bunch of guns in a short period would be when they acquired them. If over a long period, not dealing. If they were all bought in the last couple months for substantially less than the selling price, dealing.

They break it down, it costs, on average, $318 to get a dealer's license; if you want to buy and sell guns for profit get one.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 11018 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
crbutler
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Not quite.

They don’t want to give licenses to folks without a business front- commercial address zoned appropriately.

They have been discouraging the kitchen table dealer for quite some time now.
 
Posts: 11198 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
Huvius
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quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
Not quite.

They don’t want to give licenses to folks without a business front- commercial address zoned appropriately.

They have been discouraging the kitchen table dealer for quite some time now.



That’s correct.
You must abide by your local zoning etc. which, in most cases, prevents one from operating a firearms business in a residential area.

Let’s say you got a sweet deal on a firearm and have a buyer in waiting? Can’t sell for a profit without violating these new proposals even if you use an FFL holder for the transaction. In their mind, you are engaging in an illegitimate business.

That’s just one aspect of this proposal.
 
Posts: 3394 | Location: Colorado U.S.A. | Registered: 24 December 2004Reply With Quote
Jefffive
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
Not quite.

They don’t want to give licenses to folks without a business front- commercial address zoned appropriately.

They have been discouraging the kitchen table dealer for quite some time now.



That’s correct.
You must abide by your local zoning etc. which, in most cases, prevents one from operating a firearms business in a residential area.

Let’s say you got a sweet deal on a firearm and have a buyer in waiting? Can’t sell for a profit without violating these new proposals even if you use an FFL holder for the transaction. In their mind, you are engaging in an illegitimate business.

That’s just one aspect of this proposal.


You know what they call a person in any line of endeavor who gets a sweet deal on anything and has a buyer in waiting?

A dealer.

Guns, drugs, Quikrete or cornbread.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 11018 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
Huvius
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
Not quite.

They don’t want to give licenses to folks without a business front- commercial address zoned appropriately.

They have been discouraging the kitchen table dealer for quite some time now.



That’s correct.
You must abide by your local zoning etc. which, in most cases, prevents one from operating a firearms business in a residential area.

Let’s say you got a sweet deal on a firearm and have a buyer in waiting? Can’t sell for a profit without violating these new proposals even if you use an FFL holder for the transaction. In their mind, you are engaging in an illegitimate business.

That’s just one aspect of this proposal.


You know what they call a person in any line of endeavor who gets a sweet deal on anything and has a buyer in waiting?

A dealer.

Guns, drugs, Quikrete or cornbread.


Not so.
Most rely on a quantity of said product - like cars for example. A private citizen can buy and sell one or two a year without qualifying as a dealer.
 
Posts: 3394 | Location: Colorado U.S.A. | Registered: 24 December 2004Reply With Quote
Jefffive
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
Not quite.

They don’t want to give licenses to folks without a business front- commercial address zoned appropriately.

They have been discouraging the kitchen table dealer for quite some time now.



That’s correct.
You must abide by your local zoning etc. which, in most cases, prevents one from operating a firearms business in a residential area.

Let’s say you got a sweet deal on a firearm and have a buyer in waiting? Can’t sell for a profit without violating these new proposals even if you use an FFL holder for the transaction. In their mind, you are engaging in an illegitimate business.

That’s just one aspect of this proposal.


You know what they call a person in any line of endeavor who gets a sweet deal on anything and has a buyer in waiting?

A dealer.

Guns, drugs, Quikrete or cornbread.


Not so.
Most rely on a quantity of said product - like cars for example. A private citizen can buy and sell one or two a year without qualifying as a dealer.


As they can guns if they don't promise a steady supply for the asking, that's addressed in the proposed Rule.

However, "a buyer in waiting" implies something else. Has someone asked you to find them a certain firearm and offered $xxxx before you found this "sweet deal"?

You're dealing.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 11018 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
DuggaBoye
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quote:
If over a long period, not dealing.


BATFE is already charging people -
(even before this rule has been "implemented" )

so, pardon me if i disagree


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Posts: 4594 | Location: TX | Registered: 03 March 2009Reply With Quote
Jefffive
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
quote:
If over a long period, not dealing.


BATFE is already charging people -
(even before this rule has been "implemented" )

so, pardon me if i disagree


They have charged people for selling guns they owned for a considerable time and sold due to medical reasons or retirement?

Do you have a link?


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 11018 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
Bivoj
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Hey dummy jeffi, you know very well, Feds will squash you if they get a chance and that is the problem with Dems and Dems led BATF, they don’t care for criminals per say, they make criminals with new rules on everyday basis
We the citizens are all potential criminals to them
It’s in their job description


Nothing like standing over your own kill
 
Posts: 617 | Location: Wherever hunting is good and Go Trump | Registered: 17 June 2023Reply With Quote
JTEX
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Could Jeff possibly, in any way be an American???? I just don't see it it.

HAMAS apologist.

Against freedom and self determination.

Big government proponent.

How can he be American?


.
 
Posts: 42463 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With Quote
Bivoj
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He is not, plain and simple


Nothing like standing over your own kill
 
Posts: 617 | Location: Wherever hunting is good and Go Trump | Registered: 17 June 2023Reply With Quote
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