The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum Trumps adherents really need to read this, and then read it again.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Hannah Arendt discusses in her book "The Origins of Totalitarianism“ the manipulation of truth and the impact on people’s ability to think independently. I’ve been pondering about the effects of pervasive lying and the undermining of the capacity to distinguish truth from falsehood for quite a while now... The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists. The aim of totalitarian education has never been to instill convictions but to destroy the capacity to form any. Arendt’s extensive body of work includes many nuanced discussions on truth, lies, and the nature of totalitarianism, and this quote reflects themes from her writing on totalitarianism and the nature of truth: "This constant lying is not aimed at making the people believe a lie" but at ensuring that no one believes anything anymore. People that can no longer distinguish between truth and lies cannot distinguish between right and wrong. And such a people, deprived of the power to think and judge, is, without knowing and willing it, completely subjected to the rule of lies. With such a people, you can do whatever you want.“ - Hannah Arendt, (14 October 1906 – 4 December 1975) was a German historian and philosopher #canada #germany #facts #US #uk #history #usa #historia #USToday | ||
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100% correct!! | |||
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Me too. I think the OP is a good discussion starter, and good for thought. While the words seem profound, I think there's more to it. Take the quoted sentence above, for example: I’ve been pondering about the effects of pervasive lying and the So, I changed the wording just a little to highlight what I'm thinking. I think the underlying capacity has been lacking for a long time, and the pervasive lying has found the niche to exploit it. Also, I think many know lies when they are presented, and don't care. Something else is more important to such people than truth. =============================================== I tried to read the OP thinking to myself - "how will Trump supporters, or apologists, rationalize around the premises"? Of course, they think they are critical thinkers and open-minded, objective, and certainly not being exploited or manipulated. They may believe the lies, or not. They think their capacity is just fine regarding conviction capacity, independent thinking, falsehood distinction, right and wrong, etc. While reading it I also thought to myself: "could I be wrong, are they right, about Trump and Trumpism?" The answer of course is still the same as before. So, the linked article below hopefully brings what I'm talking about to the discussion: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4b9fbeab72b971&ei=64 Many conservative Republicans deeply opposed Trump. Now they strongly support him. What changed? Story by Jacob Hess • 21h • 9 min read I read the article, all the while thinking about then OP premise and the lies believed, or not, and the authoritarian binge Trump promises. ============================================================== Also: https://www.newsweek.com/donal...straight-day-1927331 Donald Trump Breaks Polling Record for Second Straight Day Published Jul 18, 2024 at 7:51 PM EDT ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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No doubt about it. Just the lies we were fed during the Covid lunacy made it difficult to believe the news anymore. We've seen enough doctored videos and photos to destroy our confidence in them. We can't believe what we see, we can't believe what we hear. I reckon we're there. Regards, Bill. | |||
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Well, the line in an old country song comes to mind: "Everywhere you go, there you are."  I could substitute "we" for "you". But, Bill, I still think it's not really as difficult as you seem to say, which has been often said. Also, you seem to be blaming the media. What about the politicians? Here's a sample of the liars, pumping it out: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...08303228ed73b3&ei=16 Start at 0:15 ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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Your side tried to kill him. ~Ann   | |||
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Well, I suppose the premise of the OP has been affirmed, with merely six words. Thanks for the clarity, Ann. Hemingway would be proud of you. I apologize for getting off into La La land thinking too much, making it complicated. Footnote: As I recall the tale, Hemingway once won a bar bet, that he could tell the shortest story. He won with six words. "For sale, baby shoes, never worn". ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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Your side made him a target! A stupid, deranged, career criminal made to be the new GREAT LEADER! No wonder he went to meet the other GREAT LEADER!  | |||
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I’ll take a career businessman over a doddering old Pedo any day if the week. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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You'd take a man convicted of criminal fraud? How can you trust anything he says? | |||
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Because what happened was not a criminal prosecution. It was politically motivated lawfare. I am going to thoroughly enjoy the show being on the other foot when he wind and cleans house. If he was a murder he would still be better than a doddering old child touching, hair sniffing, Pedo. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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What a bunch of nonsense. You believe whatever comes out of his mouth, don't you? | |||
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And this is how far we've fallen. You're looking forward to revenge. Reagan and Tip ONiel were friends, got along and could work together. A short 40 years later we're looking forward to revenge on our political opponents. And in your last paragraph you say with a big grin on your face that you'd vote for a murderer as long as they weren't a Democrat. I'm not even surprised anymore, this is the state of my failed nation. We are Rwanda, you the Hutu are sharpening your machete for the Tutsi. I can't move far enough away. | |||
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The lying is across the board. Lying for Americans isn't just political, it's social, recreational, cultural. Americans now routinely and instinctively lie to bolster their image and self esteem, advance their professional life and their social media "likes". Americans won't confess their sins or admit their transgressions they'll just lie and lie in effort to cover their tracks, the senator from New Jersey being the easy example. We're about to re elect liars for POTUS and happy to do so. Lying is not just ok, it's a virtue because it's used to get rid of the other side, used to at least push the opposition into the gutter or the insinuation of being in the gutter. Even if we or the individual isn't a liar they celebrate their lying hero because they're a "fighter!" "In it to win it!" The liar will do whatever it takes to achieve victory of our side. And the really sick part is most of us here are dads, we're parents and this is what we're modeling for our kids. | |||
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Scott King for President! | |||
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There is something very off kilter about the whole Trump phenomenon. Of course, in large part it's the lies and desire for the enjoyment of revenge based on the belief in lies by supporters. And they complain of division. How can reconciliation be possible? But that's far from the whole story. Trump is the epitome of corruption. Even before he was a candidate in politics he was engaged in the business of fraud. As I recall, six or seven of his so-called businesses were shut down for fraud. His CFO is in prison. He bankrupted several times. He had a reputation for not paying contractors. In politics, not counting thousands of lies, just look at all the criminals gravitating to him such as Roger Stone, Manafort, Bannon and many more. Look at all those attorneys who lost their license or got off on technicality. Surely the bar associations weren't weaponized. Most of the adults in the room who worked with or for him in his first term have been outspoken in warning about him. He ran the RINOs, real republicans, out of office, and hijacked the GOP. Just look and remember how he did that, lots of lies and intimidation, and exponentiate that 1000 times regarding the nation as a whole. And SCOTUS has muddied things by giving lots of impunity - to a criminal. Trump has played lawfare all his adult life. And his success, stalling, spinning etc. with the indictment on 80-90 something counts and civil cases lost and pending should be stunningly obvious. And so many Americans want him in probably the most powerful office in the world. Do you realize what you are doing? Would you put someone like Al Capone in the office of POTUS if he promised you something? The outcome of a Trump second term should be ever so obvious. The details will take years to emerge, if ever, but a lot will be obvious right away. First thing - the magnitude of the gravitational force drawing in crooks, schemers, scammers, haters, crazy radicals, sycophants, little tyrants who want some action. And the money - the potential is enormous for someone like Trump, and those he will draw in. Bribes, blackmail, coercion, even murders, will make the lawfare retributions seem quaint, all with impunity. Then the pardons, not just for those convicted for what they did on Jan 6, but many more, ongoing to thwart investigations and prosecutions. Trading pardons for silence, and loyalty, etc. GOPers in congress have already shown us clearly that they will not just go along, but support the corruption. And that's just part of it, not counting the Christian Nationalism thing, and environmental issues, education, and world standing damage if not the world itself, and actually the form of governance itself. The damage Trump can do will be exceeded by what he actually does. (think about that!) It's happening, folks. Brace yourselves. ============================================== In a political platform, do you know what DEI stands for? In the Democrat platform it means Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. In the Republican platform it means Division, Exclusion and Inequity. ======================================= BTW, no biggie, just another Trump fraud scandal: https://www.msn.com/en-us/mone...b9fbeab72b971&ei=169 Trump Media Rocked by Securities Fraud Scandal Story by Flynn Nicholls • 17h • 2 min read ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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Absolutely not. We are down to the evil of two lessers and he is the least shitty choice. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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Leave it to a democrat to twist my words. I said I would vote for a murderer over you doddering old Pedo president. Show me a better choice on you side. I wish to bell we had a better choice for the red team. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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President of Rawanda  DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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Thank you for a well written post. I am heading out soni just have one question here. You speak of GOP’ers as you call them losing their law liscenscea. Didn’t the lefts heroes Barack and Mike Obama have their law liscensce taken from them? Asking for a friend. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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I was ready to vote for Terry Bollea after his on stage appearance. Dude looks great for 70! ~Ann | |||
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Not everyone who opposes Trump is a Democrat. I have not heard Scott ever express support for them. I fully oppose Trump and would gladly vote for a moderate Republican. I won't support the current GOP nominee or the party platform. | |||
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Tell your friend that the answer is no, they did not. https://www.reuters.com/articl...racti-idUSKBN238352/ | |||
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Wooofff!!!  https://youtube.com/shorts/uHQ...?si=8wy_DCAY_6ZPY8TU I'll bet you were ready to do a lot more with him aside from voting. You like Ted Nugent too - don't you, don't you? Go ahead, admit it. I always thought well of Terry Bollea, although I didn't know him by his real name. He was a great actor, gifted in many ways, and like Trump he's out of place and league among people serious about reality, not fake. I've never liked Ted Nugent. Anyway, so you like grandpas? Here's an older man with real courage determination and love: https://youtube.com/shorts/7jK...?si=WBxL10BTl5_epNoV rescue Like Clint Eastwood, he never lost his cigar. ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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Ah, but which career businessman? There's the rub. Rex Tillerson doesn't seem to want the job. I can't remember when I've heard the volume of undigested pap as last night's speeches. Lots of blather, no discernable substance, delivered with the vocabulary of a 12-year-old. This is standard issue for broadcast television, a little thin for discussing the country's future. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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Does anyone remember Stephen Miller? The slug that worked for Trump as advisor? Well, he's still working for Trump, filing lots of lawsuits. He's actively engaged in lawfare on large scale, and well funded. Here's just a sample of what he has and is doing. It's small potatoes compared to what will happen with 50,000 shock troops, a compliant congress and SCOTUS. If you want a small dose of truth: https://youtube.com/shorts/-SN...?si=htQZ_8gN0BEaRI90 https://youtube.com/shorts/DmX...?si=e0X8uGJSyYY027KT https://www.dcreport.org/2022/...zTB14cRoCXmMQAvD_BwE https://youtube.com/shorts/_7-...?si=p78rhPDrsYJ5Z7k3 https://youtube.com/shorts/oqN...?si=Qwai-H6g9JM65vHc https://youtube.com/shorts/NCX...?si=95nh6UBiDy5XNQtg ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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I am a person who started his surgery career in a research directed facility with the plan of solving equine orthopedic problems and quelling myths. I wrote grant proposals based on step by step logical means supported by the historical collection of scientific literature. The trouble of the 21st century is having no source of reliable data in which to form opinions. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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How’s that again? https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/s/9Nq6zqU51b | |||
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I suppose your last sentence quoted above pertains to your field as a vet. I think you in particular are interesting, for several reasons, in large part because I have little, perhaps no doubt that you are very competent in your field. That's the conundrum. Regarding your comment about source for reliable data and opinions, with regard to distinguishing fact and fiction, true and false, right and wrong, in the context of the OP, I think there are many reliable sources. I think it's better than it used to be. For those looking for affirmations, there's plenty of (reliable) sources for that too. Thankfully, herein is an exception. So, in line with the OP, I think the breakdown is attributed to something else aside from sources, such as media. Which occurred first, the chicken or egg, Trump or Trump spawn, the breakdown or Fox News? One thing for sure, for example, is Fox is feeding off the breakdown and also feeding it. Same for Trump. I could go on. ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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Well, you gotta admit, a longstanding professional relationship with horses asses could very likely induce an affinity for Trump. | |||
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Good one... That explains a lot. Arms length deep up a horse's ass would definitely be a perspective alteration. Remember the old saying about a team of horses. Other than the lead, the view is the same for the rest. ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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If anyone is interested in seeing something representative of what those of us afflicted with TDS see about the Trump circus and Trumpism and what it means for the country: https://youtube.com/shorts/A1f...?si=Uv_3cYXJtZv7o37i And "they" didn't stop it. ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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Totally fabricated Russian dossier comes to mind. | |||
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The lie that the Steel dossier and the Muller Report were fabricated (lies or fiction) comes to mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...specific_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_report#Findings The truth is readily available. This is a good example of the pervasive lies, dis/misinformation, truth avoidance, affirmation bubble premises of the OP. We have covered this numerous times. The facts and associated info are readily available, and it makes no difference in a positive way - only negatively. ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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I don't think I've voted for more than two liberals ever. The first time my senator Ted Stevens was convicted of several felonies and I know I didn't vote for him. I don't remember if I voted Democrat or just didn't vote. The other time Palin was running for the Alaska seat in the House and I voted for the Democrat who won and we've all been generally pleased with. That vote was as much a "no" to Palin as it was a "yes to the Democrat, but it seems to have worked out. In every other election I've voted conservative, either Libertarian or GOP. Id gladly vote rabid, right wing extreme Republican and would be happy to write in. A candidate strong on national defense, (not offense,) a candidate who prioritized America, her citizens and land. Id vote for energy independence, border security, strong industry, manufacturing and trade. Id vote for the candidates that would support safe streets and neighborhoods, roads, bridges and dams in good repair. I'd put a campaign sign in my front yard for the candidate that would show me a return or value for my taxes paid and a conservative, prudent budget. Id vote for a candidate that will be president for all Americans and give appropriate sized attention to the fringe, miniscule, meathead and ding dong groups that they deserve. | |||
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I think we have a lot of folks here who are not so much pro trump as they are Anyone But Biden. I wish the red team had a better bullpen instead of the pitcher we have. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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What are you going to say when Biden drops out? ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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Here's another example of the pervasive lies: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...a&ei=20&sc=shoreline "We're never gonna let that happen again": Trump's RNC speech confirms plans for a Big Lie 2.0 Story by Heather Digby Parton • 5h • 6 min read (excerpt) If social media is any indication, the speech seemed to shock many observers who have forgotten that Trump lies constantly and is incoherent and ignorant even when he's at his best. And he was certainly not at his best. Despite the long-winded delivery of all his greatest hits going back to 2016, he's definitely lost a step. MSNBC's Chris Hayes astutely described what we all saw last night: "This is not a colossus, this is not the big bad wolf, this is not a vigorous and incredibly deft political communicator. This is an old man in decline who's been doing the same schtick for a very long time and it's really wearing thin." The substance, to the extent there was any, was delusional and frightening. From bragging that when he was president he "could end wars with a phone call" to the endless lies about his accomplishments while in office, he assiduously avoided speaking specifically about 98% of his agenda as laid out in Project 2025 and his own Agenda 47. But he did say one thing that caught my attention and should catch the attention of every American. After admonishing Joe Biden for saying he's a threat to democracy earlier in the speech, Trump said in passing, "we had that horrible, horrible result that we'll never let happen again, the election result, we're never gonna let that happen again." ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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I hate to do it Scott, but I am going to have to rescind my endorsement for President and I have now moved on to another candidate.  | |||
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I will be saddened. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum Trumps adherents really need to read this, and then read it again.
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