While he gives speeches that there are too many white men working construction, Ohio drowns in burning toxic chemicals the last ten days. Yes, burning because his crew dumped the chemical and lit it on fire. Way to go, Pete!


Sickening

Don’t you just love these brainless idiots voted to rule America?!

American “democracy” in all its glory!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Don’t you just love these brainless idiots voted to rule America?!

American “democracy” in all its glory!

Terrible isn't it?

Then again, at least we do not have to beg for others to protect us from some goat herders. That is a special kind of glory reserved for Royalty

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Don’t you just love these brainless idiots voted to rule America?!

American “democracy” in all its glory!

Terrible isn't it?

Then again, at least we do not have to beg for others to protect us from some goat herders. That is a special kind of glory reserved for Royalty

Then again, we don’t have to suffer getting our arse handed to us by rice paddy farmers and Stone Age cave dwellers!

True enough, but in the case of the stone age cave dwellers it is due to the financial support that wealthy Arabs have sent to them. Terrorists love wealthy benefactors and the gulf State Arabs have done a stellar job funding them.

Seems to be par for the course, paying off others for your security.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
True enough, but in the case of the stone age cave dwellers it is due to the financial support that wealthy Arabs have sent to them. Terrorists love wealthy benefactors and the gulf State Arabs have done a stellar job funding them.

Seems to be par for the course, paying off others for your security.

Don’t alter the fact you get your arse handed to you again and again and again.

Trump or Biden?

Butthole Pete or Commie Kamala?

At least we are able to form a reasonable self defense force, something the UAE is not able to pull off.

We never lose on the battlefield, it is the peace we cannot seem to win. Heathens reject enlightenment, over and over again.

If we keep losing as you claim, why is that your Uncle keeps begging us to protect your country? You would think he would at least beg from the winning side, or maybe he is.....

President Obama’s Administration passed regulations requiring train brakes to be regularly checked and upgraded and restricting this type of material from being transported on by rail.

President Trump’s Administration repealed those regs. President Obama’s Administrative regs would have prevented this catastrophe if enforced.

I remember when Republicans used to speak of Common Sense Regulations. Appears, good brakes on trains and not unrestricted rail transport of this material are common sense.

As for the Secretary of Transportation, he has done a poor job for coordinating and prioritizing the Fed response to this catastrophe to air travel. Every minute should be focused on Ohio.

Makes no sense.

I agree that they need to check the brakes of the train, but I’m not sure that passing a regulation is going to deal with it… the lawsuit for fixing their problem if they don’t maintain their equipment is a bigger liability to them (and if the execs and supervisors are personally held liable even more so…) as a government reg becomes the de facto standard, even if more is needed.

As to not transporting via rail, WTF?

Your lefty friends in office shut down pipelines, and rail is much safer than air or road.

While Trump should be castigated for removing and not replacing with a better policy, it would seem to me that being liable for your screw ups is a pretty good method…

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
President Obama’s Administration passed regulations requiring train brakes to be regularly checked and upgraded and restricting this type of material from being transported on by rail.

President Trump’s Administration repealed those regs. President Obama’s Administrative regs would have prevented this catastrophe if enforced.

I remember when Republicans used to speak of Common Sense Regulations. Appears, good brakes on trains and not unrestricted rail transport of this material are common sense.

As for the Secretary of Transportation, he has done a poor job for coordinating and prioritizing the Fed response to this catastrophe to air travel. Every minute should be focused on Ohio.

Makes sense, if they are required to keep the brakes proper, trains do not derail because of old work our brakes.

This is exactly why we need Regulations.

It makes sense it you would not say President Trumps needs castrated for removing the reg.

Lawsuits are reactive. Regulations are proactive and would have prevented this.

quote:

I agree that they need to check the brakes of the train, but I’m not sure that passing a regulation is going to deal with it… the lawsuit for fixing their problem if they don’t maintain their equipment is a bigger liability to them (and if the execs and supervisors are personally held liable even more so…) as a government reg becomes the de facto standard, even if more is needed.

A little late, don't you think? I guess we don't need to regulate traffic flow either, just sue somebody after the deaths.

Passing a reg for Fed transport and enforcing it deals with it.

Fed cannot check the brakes wo a regulation.

Like I said, I remember when Republicans tadpole of Common Sense Regulations.

Now we have become the party of stupid and let’s go back to the 1920s when we let the free market run wild.

Where is Republican President Theadore Roosevelt when you need him.

This catastrophe was preventable by appropriate level of Government. We had that in place.

This event is why I am not an economic Libertarian.

Trump hated Obama, and tried to repeal everything Obama did.

But Biden has been in office for more than two years. Why didn't he reinstate the regs?

Well, look at Nixon.

He added a bunch of reasonable regulations.

We agree that the trains need to be run as safely as possible.

I agree that a recommended standard of how frequently brakes are checked, what is acceptable wear before replacement, how we will ensure it is checked, and that it needs to be required to follow through on is necessary.

I’m not so sure someone like Buttigeg has any ability to decide what those standards are… most of the folks who do know are working for the railroads.

They do have a bit of a conflict of interest, but they are the experts.

What the left has managed is to get regulators to mandate things that are not particularly pertinent placed into regulation. Heck, look at medical licensing of a healthcare facility sometime… lots of stuff that is not very pertinent there, and no one knows why it is there. (Hard water scale in pipes is an infection hazard?!- might limit water flow but calcium carbonate is not infectious…).

We have all seen the abuses of the regulators. We also have seen the abuses of folks cutting corners to make a nickel.

Some regulation is necessary. How much?

I also noticed you ignored the other part about not allowing hazardous substances on trains…. That was a regulation, and makes little sense given that trains are very safe and economical- and the only safer way (pipelines) are both more expensive, and the leftists have stopped them via regulation.

Well, it appears President Obama’s Administration’s regs on this issue made good sense as you have now spent two post walking back fro your original position.

Like I said, those two regs were appropriate, made sense, would have cost you nothing in gems if your pocket book, and we have come from President Rosevelt to know arguing about regulations of train brakes carrying highly dangerous material.

Deregulation is not the answer to everything. Those regs should not have been reversed. President Biden and the Sec Buttigieg as just as at fault as President Trump for not knowing and correcting.

To paraphrase a common phrase, “ That President Obama, say what you want to about him, but he kept the trains from derailing from worn out brakes.”

Just goes to show you not everything done by Rep good and by Dem bad.

You do not want to know how I would regulate your profession, hospitals, and nursing homes.

Let us focus on this catastrophe and what got us here. A immature GOO Administration who deregulated recklessly and a replacement Administration who did not correct the issue.

I hope Congress will pass Legislation that will prevent such. However, that is unlikely as much as it is necessary. Administrative Regulations on the whole as a general legal concept are constitutionally. They exist to fill in the gaps in legislation.

There is nothing to respond to. President Obama’s Administration passes regulation that would have prevented this train from carrying that material as it was being carried.

This makes no sense being your quote

I agree that they need to check the brakes of the train, but I’m not sure that passing a regulation is going to deal with it…

First, the Feds cannot check the brakes wo a regulation. Second, okay we checked the brakes. They are bad, so roll on boys.

Republicans did not use to be anti Administrative Regulations, then it went to Common Sense Regulations, now we are the nonsense of your quoted position which is do not do anything that will prevent this.

So what was the Obama regulation explicitly? You are claiming they were appropriate and made sense… thus you need to demonstrate that. Somehow, I doubt you have any idea what the regs were other than a media statement that it was something that would have prevented it.

How are you so sure that his administration’s regulation would have stopped this?

Further, you seem to think regulation cures things… it doesn’t.

Adherence to the underlying rationale of the regulations is what stops issues. You could have every rule in the book and if it wasn’t followed, you get the same result.

If Obama’s regs stopped derailments, why did they occur then? Because we did have derailments while he was in office. Why are every train in the US not coming off the rails because Trump removed the regulation?

Regulations are chronically being broken.

What happens if you pass a regulation that states “proper maintenance will be performed and documented.”?

Then you would have arguments about what proper maintenance means, what documentation is, and what do you do if it isn’t complied with. In healthcare, one of my pet peeves is that facilities run for compliance with regulation, not with doing what’s right.

The reason republicans have gone against administrative regulations (or why this particular Republican is) is that the leftists have been using them to change policy and the country without widespread agreement to do so.

Look at global warming. We have been placing all kinds of regulations regarding that via ways never intended and that have absolutely nothing to affect any changes to the problem. Carbon tax? All that is is a glorified wealth transfer, yet it is being jammed through as regulation.

I agree that deregulation isn’t a panacea. It’s a functional way to set a standard as long as it’s done correctly. Unfortunately, there have been a lot of badly made regulations.

Tell me, what is the basis of zoning regulations? Tell me why a 200 foot offset from water is adequate instead of 150 or 250? If there is a scientific basis, why so many differences between districts?

My original point was that if you want to prevent bad things you need to have responsibility. Currently, a lot of folks making decisions don’t have any.

If you have a likelihood of getting away with it, and it gives you a reward, and the down side is minimal, why would you not do it?

In this case, the railroad will pay for improperly maintaining their train. They will have to clean up their mess and compensate folks. The CEO’s only punishment will likely be a reduction in bonus. The only person who will lose his job is whatever low level person they can pin not maintaining the brakes on (assuming that is what was the actual cause of the derailment). The CEO actually can make policy for the railroad and make sure the assets are provided to do so; middle management is responsible to see the assets are properly utilized; the line worker is responsible to do his part.

Compare that with the bureaucrat. The worst that happens is that he doesn’t get promoted unless he gets caught doing something either illegal or grossly negligent… and then, his penalty is usually minimal.

The government guy who decided that burning the chemicals was the way to deal with this (a judgement call) will have no financial involvement. The zoning people who allowed development near a train track will not have any liability. Whoever inspected the train for the government, even if he missed everything, has no liability.

You are right, it’s not as simple as Republican good, Democrat bad. It’s not regulation bad, deregulation good. But in current America, the odds are things are over regulated, and capriciously enforced.

But it is how do we get the right thing done, and at what cost? Who is to blame if it is not done?

The democrats have a tendency to overregulate and under enforce. The GOP a tendency to underregulate and over enforce. The bureaucrats tend to overregulate and over enforce. That stew has gotten us where we are now.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
President Obama’s Administration passed regulations requiring train brakes to be regularly checked and upgraded and restricting this type of material from being transported on by rail.

President Trump’s Administration repealed those regs. President Obama’s Administrative regs would have prevented this catastrophe if enforced.

I remember when Republicans used to speak of Common Sense Regulations. Appears, good brakes on trains and not unrestricted rail transport of this material are common sense.

As for the Secretary of Transportation, he has done a poor job for coordinating and prioritizing the Fed response to this catastrophe to air travel. Every minute should be focused on Ohio.

Your assertion that obama passed regulations is only partially true. The reg was proposed in 2014, but the obama administration was successfully lobbied to EXCLUDE trains carrying HAZMAT like the one in Ohio from the reg and they caved.

The brakes is true too.

https://www.opb.org/news/artic...fety/?outputType=amp

I never said excluded. I said restricted. P Obama’s Administration passed saftey regs for the material.

https://www.govinfo.gov/conten...f/DCPD-201300547.pdf


You are right about trains. Yet, it was not the Political Left that excluded as stated by Dr. Butler. It was pressure for the industry. President Obama kept the brakes.

In response, the Obama administration in 2014 proposed improving safety regulations for trains carrying petroleum and other hazardous materials. However, after industry pressure, the final measure ended up narrowly focused on the transport of crude oil and exempting trains carrying many other combustible materials, including the chemical involved in this weekend’s disaster.

Sorry guys.



Apparently, it only took 6 million from the Industry in donations to get President Trump to gut the brakes. Of course, money is speech.

https://www.levernews.com/rail...ore-ohio-derailment/

Your quote re brakes was regarding oil transport trains. This was not one of those. So far, the Trump rescinded reg does not apply to a train hauling industrial chemicals.

Your second quote states that this particular chemical was determined to not be a highly hazardous substance that had higher regulatory burden.

So while I get that there was a bad outcome, and I think that this railroad is going to be paying a lot of money, you still have not proven that either this was a rescinding of regulation by Trump, or that Obama’s rules would have prevented this.

Now, did the railroad do its best to avoid regulation? Sure.

Would passing more regulation have stopped this?

You haven’t proven that. Maybe, at what cost per prevention?

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
The brakes is true too.

https://www.opb.org/news/artic...fety/?outputType=amp

I never said excluded. I said restricted. P Obama’s Administration passed safety regulations for that material killed by President Trump

https://www.govinfo.gov/conten...f/DCPD-201300547.pdf


You are right about trains

In response, the Obama administration in 2014 proposed improving safety regulations for trains carrying petroleum and other hazardous materials. However, after industry pressure, the final measure ended up narrowly focused on the transport of crude oil and exempting trains carrying many other combustible materials, including the chemical involved in this weekend’s disaster.

Sorry guys.

Apparently, it only took 6 million from the Industry in donations to get President Trump to gut the brakes. Of course, money is speech.

https://www.levernews.com/rail...ore-ohio-derailment/

Brakes all the way.

Here is the actual rule. It covered flammable material.
https://www.govinfo.gov/conten...8/pdf/2015-10670.pdf

“involving trains transporting large quantities of flammable liquids. The final rule defines certain trains transporting large volumes of flammable liquids as ‘‘high-hazard flammable trains’’ (HHFT) and regulates their operation in terms of speed restrictions, braking systems, and routing. The final rule also adopts safety improvements”

How was the brake rule nonsense again. Oh yes, “Check the brakes, but do not do anything about it.”

President Obama did something that was right in procedure and right in policy. President Trump gave a free hand to industry. President Biden and his Secretary of Transportation was too stupid to fix it, and what was prevented happened. The brakes were faulty. Ohio burns.

The free market needs regulation.

So why didn't pothole pete and dimwit 0biden 'fix it' when they took the job?

I'll tell you why. Being woke is far more important to this govt than anything else.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Brakes all the way.

Here is the actual rule. It covered flammable material.
https://www.govinfo.gov/conten...8/pdf/2015-10670.pdf

“involving trains transporting large quantities of flammable liquids. The final rule defines certain trains transporting large volumes of flammable liquids as ‘‘high-hazard flammable trains’’ (HHFT) and regulates their operation in terms of speed restrictions, braking systems, and routing. The final rule also adopts safety improvements”

How was the brake rule nonsense again. Oh yes, “Check the brakes, but do not do anything about it.”

President Obama did something that was right in procedure and right in policy. President Trump gave a free hand to industry. President Biden and his Secretary of Transportation was too stupid to fix it, and what was prevented happened. The brakes were faulty. Ohio burns.

The free market needs regulation.

Again, per your preceding article this was neither a highly flammable train per the regs, nor a petrol carrying train.

Your rule you are quoting didn’t apply to this train.

Could it have? Maybe it should, but it doesn’t and didn’t under Obama’s rule.

Are you stating that all trains should follow hazmat rules? Note the comments on speeds and routing in the regs.

At best, your statement is that we should change the regulations because this happened.


Until the TSA gets the complete failure and accident analysis you are demonstrating true ultra liberal behavior.

What exactly caused the accident?

Until we know that, we cannot prevent a recurrence.

Then at that point, one can intelligently discuss whether or not a regulation change is either helpful or desirable.


You have proven the point. Knee jerk demand for regulation without knowledge of what is the problem.

It may be that poor maintenance of the brakes is at fault.

It may also be human error.

But you just proved to me that your initial stance shows you should not be involved in setting regulation… too bad, as you as a government employee lawyer are exponentially more likely to be involved in this than I will ever be.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Brakes all the way.

Here is the actual rule. It covered flammable material.
https://www.govinfo.gov/conten...8/pdf/2015-10670.pdf

“involving trains transporting large quantities of flammable liquids. The final rule defines certain trains transporting large volumes of flammable liquids as ‘‘high-hazard flammable trains’’ (HHFT) and regulates their operation in terms of speed restrictions, braking systems, and routing. The final rule also adopts safety improvements”

How was the brake rule nonsense again. Oh yes, “Check the brakes, but do not do anything about it.”

President Obama did something that was right in procedure and right in policy. President Trump gave a free hand to industry. President Biden and his Secretary of Transportation was too stupid to fix it, and what was prevented happened. The brakes were faulty. Ohio burns.

The free market needs regulation.

The report I'm seeing, is that a broken axel was at fault. It was noticed some 20 miles before the derailment happened.
It was easy to look up the records. Under Obo, there was an average of high 1300 to 1400 derailments a year. Under Trump........ the same number, or a little less.
Where in hell is this major uptick in derailments Heym? The transportation records show the MOL same average for two decades.

Materials break all the time before their so called expiration
One thing is certain, you don’t know how good or bad it is until it breaks and then you learn how to make it better…deep horizon example…

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
So why didn't pothole pete and dimwit 0biden 'fix it' when they took the job?

I'll tell you why. Being woke is far more important to this govt than anything else.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Brakes all the way.

Here is the actual rule. It covered flammable material.
https://www.govinfo.gov/conten...8/pdf/2015-10670.pdf

“involving trains transporting large quantities of flammable liquids. The final rule defines certain trains transporting large volumes of flammable liquids as ‘‘high-hazard flammable trains’’ (HHFT) and regulates their operation in terms of speed restrictions, braking systems, and routing. The final rule also adopts safety improvements”

How was the brake rule nonsense again. Oh yes, “Check the brakes, but do not do anything about it.”

President Obama did something that was right in procedure and right in policy. President Trump gave a free hand to industry. President Biden and his Secretary of Transportation was too stupid to fix it, and what was prevented happened. The brakes were faulty. Ohio burns.

The free market needs regulation.

Like I said earlier, they as guilty as Trump. Too stupid to hold the offices, but the ads will not get smart.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
President Obama’s Administration passed regulations requiring train brakes to be regularly checked and upgraded and restricting this type of material from being transported on by rail.

President Trump’s Administration repealed those regs. President Obama’s Administrative regs would have prevented this catastrophe if enforced.

Our resident Dyke says it's Pete's fault. He personally went out to Ohio and broke the axle.

Fuck you Straight, you did not need to say that.
You piece of shit.

I see that the 'experts' are assuring the people that nothing is wrong, drink the water, clean up the dust, etc. Makes me wonder if the water was bottled and sent to DC and the EPA and the rest of them were told to drink it what would happen?

I've also noticed our resident 'environmentalist' Kabob, has been silent on what his govt has done about this issue. Pathetic.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I see that the 'experts' are assuring the people that nothing is wrong, drink the water, clean up the dust, etc. Makes me wonder if the water was bottled and sent to DC and the EPA and the rest of them were told to drink it what would happen?

I've also noticed our resident 'environmentalist' Kabob, has been silent on what his govt has done about this issue. Pathetic.

His government?

You ruskie? It was Trump who stopped the inspections rule.

You were known to claim Trump was “not my president!”

How is this any different?

quote:

Originally posted by straightshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I see that the 'experts' are assuring the people that nothing is wrong, drink the water, clean up the dust, etc. Makes me wonder if the water was bottled and sent to DC and the EPA and the rest of them were told to drink it what would happen?

I've also noticed our resident 'environmentalist' Kabob, has been silent on what his govt has done about this issue. Pathetic.

His government?

You ruskie? It was Trump who stopped the inspections rule.

The NTSB lists human error as the number one cause of derailments. Usually drunk,drugs or distraction related. Second most problems with the rails themselves. I still cant find where brakes are the biggest issue. Heym, please tell me where you are getting your data??

Another derailment near Detroit with toxic chemicals. Something also happened in Arizona, truck crash?

WTF?

It's the 21st Century. Why are these things happening? It should NOT be the job to regulate these things. It should be common sense. Once govt gets involved I believe it makes good for these mistakes to happen and get worse. That's because govt keeps bailing these companies out with taxpayer money.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Don’t you just love these brainless idiots voted to rule America?!

American “democracy” in all its glory!

Well here we go again.....spouting off about something you know nothing about......pothole Pete was not elected Saeed.

Cabinet posts are not.....

If I had posted that Don would have called me a liar? Go figger....


.

GOP in Ohio needs a mirror

https://youtube.com/shorts/IddQCR_pQbg?feature=share

Pymple, why do you even bother? This was a total CF and it's a damn shame you can't even shed one tear for the 5000 people who are now totally effed forever. You have no soul at all.

Cry like you care. You couldn't find Ohio on a map marked in crayons.

Pymple, you are such a loser.

Come to think of it, is there anyone in charge in America with any common sense right now?

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Pymple, why do you even bother? This was a total CF and it's a damn shame you can't even shed one tear for the 5000 people who are now totally effed forever. You have no soul at all.

Trump shut down the whole fricken country over Covid and you didn't shed a tear until Biden came in.

Now you pretend to give a shit because 5000 are effed because Trump rolled back rail inspections.

What a stupid dyke.