Radio silence from the left wingers on this. Small wonder. I watched the hearing today. The defense kicked ass and took names. The judge said he needed a few weeks to make his decision, but I think that is more about him pondering the political implications for him of the inevitable decision. There is much more than just the appearance of impropriety, which is all that is required. These people should be disbarred.

And how pathetic he should let such considerations enter into this if such is the case. If you or I did this we would be disbarred. They should as well. Wade’s law partner came awfully close to a line while on the stand as well I thought.

It's a sad day for the judicial system of any country when politics dictate the outcome, or the fear of politics influence the judiciary.

I listened to a bit of it.
I heard enough to think there was perjury. Nothing to think the case shouldnt continue with new people.

Even if she does not get removed, this is going to have a negative impression upon the criminal case with the Fulton County Jury pool.

A prosecutor’s first job is to protect the integrity (if it can be) of the investigation.

This affair thing and appointing her ex lover was a self inflicted wound that will cause the integrity of the investigation to be compromised. This compromising having little to nothing to do w the merits of the case.

Will she be removed? Probably due to the appearance of impropriety in appointing her lover, for the appearance of seeing him make money.

This was an unforced error that in a word was just stupid.

I agree with your assessment, LHeym.

========================================

The whole final hearing can be listened to, if you want. The temptation to scroll fwd is strong because it's tedious. Also, understanding the significance of what the attorneys are saying, and the questions asked by the judge is difficult for non-attorneys.

I listened to most of it, and my take-away is that the Trump attorneys are arguing that half-assed evidence is proof enough for disqualification. The defense spends a lot of time arguing just how much of the so-deemed evidence is based on speculation or hearsay and flaws, that don't lead to the conclusions they draw by rules of evidence.

Of course this is all typical of anything to do with Trump. Much of it is show, political arena BS, for the court of public opinion.

Anyway, I like summaries best with analysis and perspectives. Here's two:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...d55a05a76d9b05&ei=73

https://youtu.be/3m9u7NqmIjY?si=FhjTqanuO86Cwue_

I didn't watch all of either videos. But I did scroll forward and back some and listened especially to the judge's questions and the answers.

Also:

https://youtu.be/DYXNTQb6AEA?si=VQ4kY9fCO9OdKghI

Geez, Kabob.
Someone could post a fox news article saying the polar opposite that you would dismiss. Yet you hold up MSNBC, rated near the bottom for truth, as the article to believe.

Not a single word presented that bears on Trump's guilt or innocence regarding the charges against him, just an effort to smear and demean anyone who poses a threat or obstacle to him, his standard procedure.

Let's not forget where this started:

https://statesuniteddemocracy....rces/georgia-amicus/

Amicus Briefs February 9, 2024
Opposition to Co-defendants Michael Roman, Donald Trump and Others’ Motion to Dismiss and Disqualify DA Fani Willis from the Fulton County, GA Election Interference Case
FULTON COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT

Also:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trum...s/story?id=106686320

Trump joins motion seeking to disqualify DA Fani Willis, dismiss Georgia election charges
The motion claims Willis had an improper relationship with her top prosecutor.

By Will Steakin and Olivia Rubin
January 25, 2024, 4:29 PM

https://www.justsecurity.org/9...d-under-georgia-law/

Why Fani Willis Is Not Disqualified Under Georgia Law

by Norman L. Eisen, Joyce Vance and Richard Painter

January 21, 2024

And here's the duzzie, from the Washington Post: https://wapo.st/48Bq7nd

Trump ally emerged from shadows to deal blow to Ga. case against former president
Mike Roman is in the spotlight after his bombshell allegations of an improper relationship between Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis and a lawyer she hired to help prosecute the former president
By Jon Swaine, Shawn Boburg and Josh Dawsey
Updated February 2, 2024 at 1:51 p.m. EST|Published February 2, 2024 at 8:00 a.m. EST

(excerpts from the article)

As Mike Roman spoke to a gathering of fellow conservative activists in March 2022, he offered a glimpse of the intelligence-gathering skills he had honed over the previous decade working as an opposition researcher for Donald Trump and Republican megadonors.

“I show my wife this all the time when we go to a hotel,” Roman told the crowd in Harrisburg, Pa., according to an audio recording reviewed by The Washington Post. “She logs on to the Hilton WiFi, and I go on and I ‘tap, tap, tap,’ and I show her everybody else that’s on there and how we could get into their computer.”

After spending years digging in the shadows, Roman is now in the spotlight, having landed a damaging blow to the racketeering case that Georgia prosecutors are pursuing against Trump and more than a dozen others — including Roman — for trying to overturn the 2020 election. Roman has pleaded not guilty.

Roman’s defense attorney, Ashleigh Merchant, told The Post in a brief exchange that she, rather than her client, unearthed the information that underpins the claims against Willis and Wade. Roman has embraced the move: When fellow conservative operatives wrote on X that Roman was “the guy who busted Fani Willis” and that his 127-page court filing was “an object lesson in why you don’t indict the oppo guy,” he clicked like on the posts.

Over a career as a political operative and investigator, including for the conservative Koch brothers’ network, he has been described as intensely private and driven in his work. He has hired former CIA analysts to train his staff, arranged for drones to surveil campaign rallies and used military terminology, according to former colleagues. While working for Trump in 2020, he recruited poll-watchers for what the campaign called the “Army for Trump,” oversaw election-day operations and played a key role in organizing the “alternate elector plan” that is central to the charges in Fulton County, records show.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
Not a single word presented that bears on Trump's guilt or innocence regarding the charges against him, just an effort to smear and demean anyone who poses a threat or obstacle to him, his standard procedure.

This. The trumptards jumping for joy but not one word about election subversion. Typical.

Quick! Look over there!

I think Ms. Willis’ blatant and deliberate attempts to prejudice the jury pool with her racist and sexist church speech was sufficient prosecutorial misconduct to bar further prosecution.

How do you fix the allegation to the Black majority in Fulton County that the poor Ms. Willis is a victim and all the defendants are not just “defendants” but, instead, evil white suppressors of Black folk.

The indictments of Trump, et al., can no longer be just the wrongs alleged, but that he and his should be convicted because they are white devils who dared to allege colorblind wrongful prosecutorial misconduct.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Even if she does not get removed, this is going to have a negative impression upon the criminal case with the Fulton County Jury pool.

A prosecutor’s first job is to protect the integrity (if it can be) of the investigation.

This affair thing and appointing her ex lover was a self inflicted wound that will cause the integrity of the investigation to be compromised. This compromising having little to nothing to do w the merits of the case.

Will she be removed? Probably due to the appearance of impropriety in appointing her lover, for the appearance of seeing him make money.

This was an unforced error that in a word was just stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I think Ms. Willis’ blatant and deliberate attempts to prejudice the jury pool with her racist and sexist church speech was sufficient prosecutorial misconduct to bar further prosecution.

How do you fix the allegation to the Black majority in Fulton County that the poor Ms. Willis is a victim and all the defendants are not just “defendants” but, instead, evil white suppressors of Black folk.

The indictments of Trump, et al., can no longer be just the wrongs alleged, but that he and his should be convicted because they are white devils who dared to allege colorblind wrongful prosecutorial misconduct.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Even if she does not get removed, this is going to have a negative impression upon the criminal case with the Fulton County Jury pool.

A prosecutor’s first job is to protect the integrity (if it can be) of the investigation.

This affair thing and appointing her ex lover was a self inflicted wound that will cause the integrity of the investigation to be compromised. This compromising having little to nothing to do w the merits of the case.

Will she be removed? Probably due to the appearance of impropriety in appointing her lover, for the appearance of seeing him make money.

This was an unforced error that in a word was just stupid.

Good point Judge, only Republican politicians are allowed to make racist and sexist remarks in church.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I think Ms. Willis’ blatant and deliberate attempts to prejudice the jury pool with her racist and sexist church speech was sufficient prosecutorial misconduct to bar further prosecution.

How do you fix the allegation to the Black majority in Fulton County that the poor Ms. Willis is a victim and all the defendants are not just “defendants” but, instead, evil white suppressors of Black folk.

The indictments of Trump, et al., can no longer be just the wrongs alleged, but that he and his should be convicted because they are white devils who dared to allege colorblind wrongful prosecutorial misconduct.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Even if she does not get removed, this is going to have a negative impression upon the criminal case with the Fulton County Jury pool.

A prosecutor’s first job is to protect the integrity (if it can be) of the investigation.

This affair thing and appointing her ex lover was a self inflicted wound that will cause the integrity of the investigation to be compromised. This compromising having little to nothing to do w the merits of the case.

Will she be removed? Probably due to the appearance of impropriety in appointing her lover, for the appearance of seeing him make money.

This was an unforced error that in a word was just stupid.

Of course, the ultimate goal...just dismiss the election subversion charges. How idiotic.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I think Ms. Willis’ blatant and deliberate attempts to prejudice the jury pool with her racist and sexist church speech was sufficient prosecutorial misconduct to bar further prosecution.

How do you fix the allegation to the Black majority in Fulton County that the poor Ms. Willis is a victim and all the defendants are not just “defendants” but, instead, evil white suppressors of Black folk.

The indictments of Trump, et al., can no longer be just the wrongs alleged, but that he and his should be convicted because they are white devils who dared to allege colorblind wrongful prosecutorial misconduct.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Even if she does not get removed, this is going to have a negative impression upon the criminal case with the Fulton County Jury pool.

A prosecutor’s first job is to protect the integrity (if it can be) of the investigation.

This affair thing and appointing her ex lover was a self inflicted wound that will cause the integrity of the investigation to be compromised. This compromising having little to nothing to do w the merits of the case.

Will she be removed? Probably due to the appearance of impropriety in appointing her lover, for the appearance of seeing him make money.

This was an unforced error that in a word was just stupid.

Of course, the ultimate goal...just dismiss the election subversion charges. How idiotic.

Any judicial proceding that doesn't benefit one or more Republicans is automatically illegitimate these days.

I wish Judge Cannon was getting this kind of scrutiny, you know, the one whose husband worked for a known mobster?

Mike Mitchell:

Nope.
The ultimate goal is that every defendant gets a fair trial and prosecutorial misconduct, as here, cannot deprive any defendant ( no matter how dispicable) of that right.

If you think that a defendant’s right to a fair trial is idiotic, then you live in the wrong country.

I don’t think you really believe what you said. Being so mad at Trump has compromised lots of folk’s reason.

Agree JudgeG. If you do not believe that the integrity of the legal system is more important than how horrible the defendant is, then our country is lost.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
Agree JudgeG. If you do not believe that the integrity of the legal system is more important than how horrible the defendant is, then our country is lost.

The great thing is there exists a remedy. Just vote for Joe Biden…..

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
Agree JudgeG. If you do not believe that the integrity of the legal system is more important than how horrible the defendant is, then our country is lost.

How, exactly, has "the integrity of the legal system" been compromised?

She offered the job to other qualified attorneys, who declined because they didn't want the inevitable MAGA abuse and threats, hired a qualified lawyer, they later got "busy" a few times then stopped, none of which has any remote bearing on the legitimate charges brought against Trump.

The sleaziest thing in the entire affair was getting an attorney to gossip about a former client then having to backtrack on what he said that started the entire kerfluffle.

I actually believe exactly what I typed. Crappy Americans come and go as this issue clearly proves. We need to keep our thumbs off the scale or we are lost.

Does the end justify the means?

"Unprecedented" is the word often used in describing the predicament the country is in because of Trump. No con man so capable of gaming the system has ever before wormed himself into the fabric of all systems, political, legal, etc. of the nation. And he hires the best to help him with his quest to do more and take over completely.

No one before has had the money to hire so many lawyers and the power to dominate so many politicians and influence the judiciary, stated his goals so clearly and has so much support from powerful groups especially Christians, all-in with his methods.

As much as the end justifies the means for him and his support against the system, in the contest the system must not adopt the same mode to win. If that happens the battle may be won but the war lost.

In this situation with the Fulton County DA, etc., so far it looks like the means are being played by the system according to established rules.

It's cumbersome and Trump may win playing it his way.

You just can’t be having your lover prosecuting something like this.

I have no issue with the alleged crimes of President Trump being preserved to a grand jury, indictment returned, and prosecuted pursuant to due process.

However, when it looks like a person got the call as a favor for being a lover and to pay back trips/etc, the prosecution appears tainted.

The appearance is the responsibility of the DA to guard against. She failed. The appearance has a negative impact on the jury pool, on the prosecution.

Look at what we are talking about.

It was her responsibility to protect the appearance of propriety. It was her responsibility to protect the integrity of the process. She failed. The SSD part is, it was an unforced error.

This is the second such case, she is going to have stripped from her. The first being a prosecution of the Lt. Gov.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
You just can’t be having your lover prosecuting something like this.

I have no issue with the alleged crimes of President Trump being preserved to a grand jury, indictment returned, and prosecuted pursuant to due process.

However, when it looks like a person got the call as a favor for being a lover and to pay back trips/etc, the prosecution appears tainted.

The appearance is the responsibility of the DA to guard against. She failed. The appearance has a negative impact on the jury pool, on the prosecution.

Look at what we are talking about.

It was her responsibility to protect the appearance of propriety. It was her responsibility to protect the integrity of the process. She failed. The SSD part is, it was an unforced error.

This is the second such case, she is going to have stripped from her. The first being a prosecution of the Lt. Gov.

Only problem is the "source" for the narrative that their "relationship" started BEFORE he was hired, Wade's former divorce attorney, testified that he just speculated that it started before while gossiping about his former client, but had no actual personal knowledge that it was true, and no such evidence was presented.

Should she have been bumping uglies with a contractor? Nope.

Does it have any bearing on what Trump and his co-conspirators did? Nope.

quote:

The appearance is the responsibility of the DA to guard against. She failed. The appearance has a negative impact on the jury pool, on the prosecution.

Trump's defense made sure to point that out.

Willis gave some speech at a black church, and Trump team said that it influenced potential jury pool.

In fact, this whole mess which she is responsible for, now that it's out as public knowledge taints the potential jury pool.

Even if she is not replaced, Trump team has succeeded. It's a win for Trump team either way. It will be harder for any prosecution team to win the case against Trump and co-defendants.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

The appearance is the responsibility of the DA to guard against. She failed. The appearance has a negative impact on the jury pool, on the prosecution.

Trump's defense made sure to point that out.

Willis gave some speech at a black church, and Trump team said that it influenced potential jury pool.

In fact, this whole mess which se is responsible for, now that it's out as public knowledge taints the potential jury pool.

That is their job. It is good they did their job. That is the heart of due process. Nothing they have done is unethical. In fact, to not have done it would have been unethical.

No, she should not give speeches about a case being prosecuted. That is 101 a wrong act to do. I have seen prosecutors disciplined for that.

Well, I doubt that Jack Smith will be making similar stupid mistakes. I'm just as sure that "opposition research" teams will be looking.

I agree.

Aside, I think of this case, especially now with all this, as a rumble in the jungle.

The immunity issue, and the other prime issue of ballot exclusion, before SCOTUS; their decisions will affect everything Trump, henceforth.

The Joe Biden Special Prosecutor (or, maybe better “Special Apologist”) did it for him.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Well, I doubt that Jack Smith will be making similar stupid mistakes. SEE ABOVE I'm just as sure that "opposition research" teams will be looking.

Why is Willis's "now former" friend's testimony being dismissed? She said they were a couple before she hired him.

So get a new prosecutor & move on. The charges are no less to remain intact. This is nothing but delaying the inevitable.

Well, Judge G, you have some narrative feed going on there, perhaps from Fox, that I'm not up on.

So, I don't understand your stream of consciousness.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
Agree JudgeG. If you do not believe that the integrity of the legal system is more important than how horrible the defendant is, then our country is lost.

Yes, because the "integrity of the legal system" is utmost in the trumptard mind. Just so long as that means trump escapes any kind of civil or criminal liability through bullshit procedural arguments that avoid the merits of the case against trump. Because, he is guilty of what he has been accused of and you know it.

quote:

Yes, because the "integrity of the legal system" is utmost in the trumptard mind.

That's true, but not the way you sarcastically or ironically said it.

Everything about Trump is to bring down the integrity of practically everything, to his level, which is very low. Trumpism is complicit.

Trump is consistently spewing narratives or conspiracy theories that the "system" is already broken and only he can fix it. He is their avatar for righteousness, justice, correction, retribution.

It's a Putin thing as well.

It's the destruction from within thing.

He wins if he loses to a corrupt system.

The "system" that he loathes must be the path to his downfall.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
Agree JudgeG. If you do not believe that the integrity of the legal system is more important than how horrible the defendant is, then our country is lost.

Yes, because the "integrity of the legal system" is utmost in the trumptard mind. Just so long as that means trump escapes any kind of civil or criminal liability through bullshit procedural arguments that avoid the merits of the case against trump. Because, he is guilty of what he has been accused of and you know it.

Somehow his evident guilt has become a minor side issue.

I wonder how that happened?

quote:

I wonder how that happened?

Bingo. You win the boobie prize of the day.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
Agree JudgeG. If you do not believe that the integrity of the legal system is more important than how horrible the defendant is, then our country is lost.

Yes, because the "integrity of the legal system" is utmost in the trumptard mind. Just so long as that means trump escapes any kind of civil or criminal liability through bullshit procedural arguments that avoid the merits of the case against trump. Because, he is guilty of what he has been accused of and you know it.

Somehow his evident guilt has become a minor side issue.

I wonder how that happened?

“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.”

The power of the State and Federal government unbridled by constitutional protections, is a much bigger threat than Trump, Biden, Willis, or the FBI so constrained.

I’m not writing in a vacuum. I have been a public defender, a prosecutor, a private criminal defense attorney, lawyer, and a Judge. I’ve seen prosecutorial power abused by the self-righteous, political hacks, religious zealot prosecutors, those with financial agendas, and half-whit judges, who care more about their own political gain than justice.

The constitution does matter. We can vote against Trump. Thank God for America for those who wish to exercise that right.

quote:

The constitution does matter. We can vote against Trump.

quote:

Somehow his evident guilt has become a minor side issue.

I wonder how that happened?

There is your answer.

====================================

Yes, of course we can still vote against Trump, despite all the voter "reforms" republicans have put in place since the BIG LIE became so popular.

Two institutions are still valid. Voting and accountability per the rule of law.

What's wrong when we have a guy running for top office, through a political party he owns, specifically so he can defeat the rule of law, with the power granted through the system and the voting booth?

It seems to me that defaulting to just voting as the remedy and his successfully nullifying the rule of law system is profoundly impotent.

It's like acknowledging if not condoning that he's already beat the system into submission, with lies, so the last resort, voting, is all that separates us from the onslaught of fascism. That's assuming that the majority, if counted correctly, will vote rejection. That's not a safe assumption since so many will vote to bring it on.

Does the last and lasting Big Lie that he won the election, despite the facts, mean anything?

How can voting mean enough when he will lie about it?

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
The power of the State and Federal government unbridled by constitutional protections, is a much bigger threat than Trump, Biden, Willis, or the FBI so constrained.

I’m not writing in a vacuum. I have been a public defender, a prosecutor, a private criminal defense attorney, lawyer, and a Judge. I’ve seen prosecutorial power abused by the self-righteous, political hacks, religious zealot prosecutors, those with financial agendas, and half-whit judges, who care more about their own political gain than justice.

The constitution does matter. We can vote against Trump. Thank God for America for those who wish to exercise that right.

We can also present the evidence of his alleged crimes to a jury of American Citizens, then another, then another, then another.

One in New York, one in D.C., one in Georgia and one in Florida.

So far.