Magine, it's hilarious you are so worried about Trump's potential VP choices when your guy clearly thinks Trump is his VP right now. Pretty sad!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:


Nah…I just view the criminal justice system as it was intended…innocent until proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

NOT the case in this instance.

Actually, the 12 jurors felt differently. I think I'll trust them instead of you and Fox News

The proof will be the scrutiny of appeal.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trum...s/story?id=111807026

Trump asks judge to toss hush money conviction and dismiss case following Supreme Court immunity ruling
Trump's lawyers say "official-acts evidence" was used to fill "glaring holes."

ByKatherine Faulders, Aaron Katersky, and Peter Charalambous
July 11, 2024, 5:48 PM

======================================================

The link above explains a lot.

BTW, Trump was given due process with the presumption of innocence. But he was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt, thus convicted.

"the scrutiny of appeal" is important.

The immunity/impunity decision came after the conviction on 34 counts, and may change everything starting with this case and thereafter.

In the NY case no consideration was given to immunity or presumed immunity, official or unofficial, outer parameter, etc., because no such distinctions in law or precedent existed prior.

If this conviction is reversed or thrown out based on the appeal which hinges on the immunity/impunity aspects of SCOTUS decision, then that has huge implications.

Trump has acted like he is above the law all his life. But he was somewhat careful playing with that fire. Win some - lose some, but he never has to pay the piper and the net gain exceeded the losses. He was always lawyered up with the meanest attorneys he could hire or fire or just not pay them. He engaged in lawfare like no one else. The SCOTUS decision will save him a lot of trouble and attorney fees since it gives him presumed impunity.

His wet dream has always been actual immunity/impunity to commit whatever crimes his impulse and corrupt heart dictated. Now he has it.

This NY case could take the lid off this can-o-worms and show us what the future of Trumpism will be, if allowed the powers of office.

This is illiberal democracy, the fomenting and culmination in progress, per plan.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Magine, it's hilarious you are so worried about Trump's potential VP choices when your guy clearly thinks Trump is his VP right now. Pretty sad!

I presume there's some far-right "news" source where you are getting your info.

Hilarious, yet sad? Let's not get hysterical.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:


Nah…I just view the criminal justice system as it was intended…innocent until proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

NOT the case in this instance.

Actually, the 12 jurors felt differently. I think I'll trust them instead of you and Fox News

The proof will be the scrutiny of appeal.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trum...s/story?id=111807026

Trump asks judge to toss hush money conviction and dismiss case following Supreme Court immunity ruling
Trump's lawyers say "official-acts evidence" was used to fill "glaring holes."

ByKatherine Faulders, Aaron Katersky, and Peter Charalambous
July 11, 2024, 5:48 PM

======================================================

The link above explains a lot.

BTW, Trump was given due process with the presumption of innocence. But he was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt, thus convicted.

"the scrutiny of appeal" is important.

The immunity/impunity decision came after the conviction on 34 counts, and may change everything starting with this case and thereafter.

In the NY case no consideration was given to immunity or presumed immunity, official or unofficial, outer parameter, etc., because no such distinctions in law or precedent existed prior.

If this conviction is reversed or thrown out based on the appeal which hinges on the immunity/impunity aspects of SCOTUS decision, then that has huge implications.

Trump has acted like he is above the law all his life. But he was somewhat careful playing with that fire. Win some - lose some, but he never has to pay the piper and the net gain exceeded the losses. He was always lawyered up with the meanest attorneys he could hire or fire or just not pay them. He engaged in lawfare like no one else. The SCOTUS decision will save him a lot of trouble and attorney fees since it gives him presumed impunity.

His wet dream has always been actual immunity/impunity to commit whatever crimes his impulse and corrupt heart dictated. Now he has it.

This NY case could take the lid off this can-o-worms and show us what the future of Trumpism will be, if allowed the powers of office.

This is illiberal democracy, the fomenting and culmination in progress, per plan.

How can ANY "official act" argument apply to something that happened BEFORE he was President? Still in the process of cleaning up his personal mess AFTER he was elected should not be a part of his official duties.

quote:

How can ANY "official act" argument apply to something that happened BEFORE he was President? Still in the process of cleaning up his personal mess AFTER he was elected should not be a part of his official duties.

Good point, yet his attorneys, IMO, are going beyond the usual delay tactic on this one.

They are, per the old saying, trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip.

Hopefully several questions about the immunity/impunity will be answered.

I'm not an attorney so I can't answer your question thoroughly or convincingly.

There are clues, however, within reliable media sources, and of course appeal to reliable authority:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...1rv?ocid=socialshare

Hope Hicks could end Trump's appeal of hush money conviction: ex-prosecutor
Story by Adam Nichols • 2d • 2 min read

(excerpt)

Legal analyst Joyce Vance said evidence from Hicks presented in his trial is likely not covered by a recent Supreme Court ruling that Trump’s team is expected to rely on to overturn his conviction on falsifying business record charges.

Trump was scheduled to be sentenced Thursday, but Judge Juan Merchan agreed to delay it until September to consider the impact of the Supreme Court’s ruling that presidents have immunity from prosecution for official acts while in office.

But Vance, speaking on the Cafe Insider podcast, said Hicks’ testimony, given during a tearful appearance in the witness box, would likely not be affected.

Hicks had been a Trump Organization employee long before Trump became president, and a lot of her core evidence involved that time, Vance said.

She added that evidence was central to the conviction.

"It'll be hard to say prosecutors didn't ask the jury to rely on that evidence,” she said. "So I think the better argument for the government here is that it's just not evidence of official acts. And you know, Hope Hicks is in a really unique position because she was not a White House assistant who went to work for the president, she traveled with Donald Trump."

"She was involved in the initial acts here where the decision was made that Stormy Daniels would be paid off," she added. "She was around for the whole Michael Cohen thing, and so I think the government has a great argument that this is just transferring pre-presidency Donald Trump — candidate Trump — into the White House."

"I mean, when Donald Trump writes checks to pay his utilities in Trump Tower, if he does that while he's sitting in the White House, that doesn't make it an official act just because of where he's sitting or who he has a conversation with or gives the check to," she said. "So I think the prosecution has a strong argument here."

If anyone is still interested in the topic of Trump's VP choice, here's something:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...xqH?ocid=socialshare

'A lot of bad blood there': Trump addresses Nikki Haley not being invited to RNC

With just four days until the Republican National Convention, former President Trump has yet to announce who his running mate will be. Also, former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley was not invited.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Magine, it's hilarious you are so worried about Trump's potential VP choices when your guy clearly thinks Trump is his VP right now. Pretty sad!

I'll guess that he'll make the same sort of inopportune choice that RFK did...

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Magine, it's hilarious you are so worried about Trump's potential VP choices when your guy clearly thinks Trump is his VP right now. Pretty sad!

I think it's sad, indeed, but not hilarious.

I think "sad" and "hilarious" are insufficient words.

This whole scenario of Biden vs Trump is disturbing.

Trump and the GOP choose Senator J.D. Vance as Vice Presidential running mate.

https://apnews.com/article/tru...21b2631f5a53b06b71d0


.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:
Trump and the GOP choose Senator J.D. Vance as Vice Presidential running mate.

[url=https://apnews.com/article/trump-vice-president-vance-rubio-burgum-rnc-6cc438a8370a21b2631f5a53b06b71d0]https://apnews.com/article/tru...21b2631f5a53b06b71d0[/url


Smart choice!

https://youtu.be/VUGHz8VLNWU?si=g4l0jYKFkz5s2ykx

JD VP

https://youtu.be/2GIIT_LSNfI?si=qT64FgDV302utTJ3

'Listen to these insults': Hear what JD Vance said about Trump before becoming his running mate

https://youtu.be/dPD6KhR7KDE?si=5hJ3BMlC7nwJKpBE

Watch Biden give back rubs

https://youtu.be/hWSZDHNcNrA?si=N1rmAGYM114GBqcu

"Nice" reporting on Vance

(Note) one of Trump's goals is to eliminate PBS

Another informative article:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...cid=socialshare&ei=7

What J.D. Vance really believes
Story by Zack Beauchamp • 4h • 6 min read

(excerpt)

His worldview is fundamentally incompatible with the basic principles of American democracy.

Vance has said that, had he been vice president in 2020, he would have carried out Trump’s scheme for the vice president to overturn the election results. He has fundraised for January 6 rioters. He once called on the Justice Department to open a criminal investigation into a Washington Post columnist who penned a critical piece about Trump. After last week’s assassination attempt on Trump, he attempted to whitewash his radicalism by blaming the shooting on Democrats’ rhetoric about democracy without an iota of evidence.

This worldview translates into a very aggressive agenda for a second Trump presidency. In a podcast interview, Vance said that Trump should “fire every single mid-level bureaucrat” in the US government and “replace them with our people.” If the courts attempt to stop this, Vance says, Trump should simply ignore the law.

"You stand before the country, like Andrew Jackson did, and say the chief justice has made his ruling, now let him enforce it,” he declares.

Vance is a man who believes that the current government is so corrupt that radical, even authoritarian steps, are justified in response. He sees himself as the avatar of America’s virtuous people, whose political enemies are interlopers scarcely worthy of respect. He is a man of the law who believes the president is above it.

Vance wasn’t always like this.

2016 Vance was also an ardent Trump foe. He wrote a New York Times op-ed titled “Mr. Trump Is Unfit For Our Nation’s Highest Office,” and wrote a text to his law school roommate warning that Trump might be “America’s Hitler.”

Eight years later, Vance has metamorphosed into something else entirely.

When I spoke to Georgia state Sen. Josh McLaurin (D) — the former law school roommate who had received Vance’s “America’s Hitler” text — I asked him how the Vance he knew evolved into the Vance we see today.

“The through line between former J.D. and current J.D. is anger,” McLaurin told me. “The Trump turn can be understood as a lock-in on contempt as the answer to anger” — specifically, contempt directed at Vance’s political enemies.

McLaurin’s comments suggest that Vance’s conversion to Trumpism is genuine. I’m inclined to agree, though the timing of his MAGA conversion surely is convenient: He converted to right-wing populism just in time to run for a vacant seat in Trumpy Ohio.

Ultimately, whether Vance truly believes what he’s saying is secondary to the public persona he’s chosen to adopt.

And it is clear that Vance is deeply ensconced in the GOP’s growing “national conservative” faction, which pairs an inconsistent economic populism with an authoritarian commitment to crushing liberals in the culture war.

In a profile of Vance, Politico reporter Ian Ward quotes multiple leading Republican figures — specifically, the leaders of the faction trying to turn these postliberal ideas into practice — saying that they see Vance as a leading advocate for their cause.

Top Trump advisor (and current federal inmate) Steve Bannon told Ward that Vance is “at the nerve center of this movement.” Kevin Roberts, the president of the right-wing Heritage Foundation and the driving force behind Project 2025, told Ward that “he is absolutely going to be one of the leaders — if not the leader — of our movement.”

There is little doubt that Vance will continue in this role if elected vice president. He would enable all of Trump’s worst instincts, and put a brake on none — deploying his considerable intellectual and intrapersonal gifts toward bending the government to Trump’s will.

In Trump’s first term, he faced considerable opposition from inside his own administration. People like Defense Secretary James Mattis and Vice President Mike Pence served as brakes on Trump’s most radical impulses, challenging or even refusing to implement his (illegal) directives.

Vance’s ascendance represents the death of this “adults in the room” model. Backed by people drawn from the lists of loyal staffers being prepared by places like Heritage, Vance would not only support Trump’s radical impulses but seems likely to spearhead efforts to implement them.

He would be a direct conduit from the shadowy world of far-right influencers, where Curtis Yarvin is a respected voice and Viktor Orbán a role model, straight to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

In 2004, Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean described himself as hailing from “the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.” If the GOP under Trump has indeed evolved into an authoritarian party, then Vance hails from its authoritarian wing.

Impeachment insurance, better than last time...

It does leave the question, which one is the bigger asshole? I have to ponder on that one.

MTG must be devastated.

She was convinced that having bigger balls and less eyeliner than Vance was the ticket.

I really liked Scott, but I'm fully behind Trump and whoever he picked after last Saturday.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
It does leave the question, which one is the bigger asshole? I have to ponder on that one.

Asshole dimensions aside, no-one can say Vance has bone spurs.