From the Bulwark this morning:

The Price of Lies

CHARLIE SYKES
JAN 29





By now it is a hoary cliche that we live in post-truth times. But Truth is not going easily or cheaply, is it?

Let’s try to keep up here:

On Friday, a federal jury ordered the former president to pay $83.3 million (on top of an earlier $5 million verdict) for defaming a woman that he raped. He faces another judgement for as much as $370 million dollars for lying about his finances.

Last year, Infowar’s Alex Jones was ordered to pay nearly $1 billion to the families of the Sandy Hook victims for lying about the massacre.

Just last month, Rudy Giuliani was hit with a $148 million verdict for defaming two Georgia election workers — Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss.

Fox News was forced to pay $787 million to Dominion Voting Systems for lies about the 2020 election. Now, here comes Smartmatic, which is seeking more than $2 billion dollars from Fox for still more lies about the vote.

For Trump and the others, this may simply be the cost of doing business. But, as Bloomberg’s Tim O’Brien notes, a hundred million here, a hundred million there… starts to add up to real money.

What of that nearly $460 million Trump might end up owing? Where will it come from? Trump has spent years wildly inflating the value of everything he owns, while playing hide-and-seek around his debts. Bloomberg News estimates he has a net worth of about $3.1 billion, the lion’s share of which is tied up in urban real estate and golf courses. He can’t simply just sell some of that stuff to raise money — at least not right away. He may also sit atop liquid assets of about $600 million, which is what he’d probably have to dip into if need be.

Should Trump wind up really strapped after running out of other options, he could consider filing for bankruptcy to protect what he has. But although he’s been a serial bankruptcy artist throughout his career, that is probably a path he would never need — or want — to take. Bankruptcy was part of the Trump I and Trump II eras, when he morphed from being an outer borough huckster into a national curiosity and TV oddity gorging on other people’s money. The Trump III era, which began when he rolled down a Trump Tower escalator in 2015 to bid on the White House, is something he’d be less inclined to sully with overt displays of financial ineptitude.

**

These things also add up, don’t they?

You hate to see it...

.


Who am I kidding, there's nobody alive who deserves it more.

Wonder if Ms James has determined how much income tax he cheated the state and Federal governments out of over the years. To say that there were no victims of his fraud might not be accurate.

The Trumpeteers, regardless of their own financial standing, will cheerfully pony up to bail out their cult leader. The slant will be that the establishment is persecuting the finest president the nation has ever known. There is no limit to the delusion.
It is truly sad that the choice for president in 2024 may well be a choice between two inept geriatrics.
Honestly, I supported Trump over Hillary, I would have supported anyone over Hillary. I truly thought it was likely Trump would do something stupid enough to get him impeached inside of two years. He did so but his followers didn't care!
Anyway, here we are again. Both political parties refuse to run competent, viable candidates and the country continues to suffer (Jeff can chime in here with, "The economy's great, the dollar is strong, the people prosper, the President is sharp as a tack and the Veep over qualified". Good stuff.) Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
Wonder if Ms James has determined how much income tax he cheated the state and Federal governments out of over the years. To say that there were no victims of his fraud might not be accurate.

Probably $18 million just on the fake loan in Chicago.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
The Trumpeteers, regardless of their own financial standing, will cheerfully pony up to bail out their cult leader. The slant will be that the establishment is persecuting the finest president the nation has ever known. There is no limit to the delusion.
It is truly sad that the choice for president in 2024 may well be a choice between two inept geriatrics.
Honestly, I supported Trump over Hillary, I would have supported anyone over Hillary. I truly thought it was likely Trump would do something stupid enough to get him impeached inside of two years. He did so but his followers didn't care!
Anyway, here we are again. Both political parties refuse to run competent, viable candidates and the country continues to suffer (Jeff can chime in here with, "The economy's great, the dollar is strong, the people prosper, the President is sharp as a tack and the Veep over qualified". Good stuff.) Regards, Bill.

The economy IS great by practically every metric, people ARE doing well as reflected by increasing consumer confidence, compared to Trump who is reduced to bragging about his results on cognitive tests only given to people exhibiting signs of impairment Biden IS sharp, and Harris is certainly better qualified than our last Veep, who had only one vertebrae.

Try the metric of going to a dollar store, and asking everyone who goes in how the economy is doing for them.

Trump is competent, Biden is not
IMO
All these defamation money verdicts are so stupid with these obscene amounts of money … again IMO

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Try the metric of going to a dollar store, and asking everyone who goes in how the economy is doing for them.

We know it's not great for everyone and for some it never will be. Can't give em a tax break because they probably don't pay any taxes to start with.

What do you suggest Unka Sugar should do to help them?

Maybe they can create a special fund to lend to banks who can then re-lend these funds @ 1% to low income buyers.

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
Trump is competent, Biden is not
IMO
All these defamation money verdicts are so stupid with these obscene amounts of money … again IMO

Trump is a criminal fading into dementia in public, Biden is not.

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
Trump is competent, Biden is not
IMO
All these defamation money verdicts are so stupid with these obscene amounts of money … again IMO

Free speech has consequences. $88.3 million of them in this case.

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Try the metric of going to a dollar store, and asking everyone who goes in how the economy is doing for them.

We know it's not great for everyone and for some it never will be. Can't give em a tax break because they probably don't pay any taxes to start with.

What do you suggest Unka Sugar should do to help them?

Maybe they can create a special fund to lend to banks who can then re-lend these funds @ 1% to low income buyers.

You know they are desperate when Republicans pretend to give a shit about folks at the Dollar Store.

I dont know about Republicans, but rural folks here say they go to the dollar store first to save what they can, groceries are so high.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I dont know about Republicans, but rural folks here say they go to the dollar store first to save what they can, groceries are so high.

If Trump had ever managed anything close to this economy you would have touted it as the best ever.

I own a business Jeffi. I know how things are doing for me every year. Dont try to tell me how well I would or wouldnt be doing. You are full of shit to try.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I own a business Jeffi. I know how things are doing for me every year. Dont try to tell me how well I would or wouldnt be doing. You are full of shit to try.

Link

I cant open your link. If it's a magic eight ball, that tells the prices of timber, syrup, cattle and other ag prices, please resend it. I find all those to change, sometimes every week. So unless you are looking over the shoulder of my tax agent at the end of every year, your full of shit with knowing how well I am doing.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I cant open your link. If it's a magic eight ball, that tells the prices of timber, syrup, cattle and other ag prices, please resend it. I find all those to change, sometimes every week. So unless you are looking over the shoulder of my tax agent at the end of every year, your full of shit with knowing how well I am doing.

It's just Steve Forbes on Fox saying Joe Biden's economy is the best in the world...

Compared to what other years in the past?
I've had better, and some worse, but last year with fuel prices, it's far from great.
I dont live in the rest of the world.

Credit where it's due, Trump finally said something funny...

Link

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I dont know about Republicans, but rural folks here say they go to the dollar store first to save what they can, groceries are so high.

If Trump had ever managed anything close to this economy you would have touted it as the best ever.

He's trying to take credit for it as it is.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tru...-high-201113953.html

Best in the world right now?

That’s not that high a bar.

Best the US has ever been? That I would laugh at and ask him to defend his position. By what criteria?

As it is, what are his criteria?

Inflation obviously isn’t it.
GDP?
Unemployment?
Currency strength?
Public perception?
Stock market?
Prime interest rate?
Multiple?
How are they weighted?
Or is this purely his subjective opinion?

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I cant open your link. If it's a magic eight ball, that tells the prices of timber, syrup, cattle and other ag prices, please resend it. I find all those to change, sometimes every week. So unless you are looking over the shoulder of my tax agent at the end of every year, your full of shit with knowing how well I am doing.

It's just Steve Forbes on Fox saying Joe Biden's economy is the best in the world...

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Best in the world right now?

That’s not that high a bar.

Best the US has ever been? That I would laugh at and ask him to defend his position. By what criteria?

As it is, what are his criteria?

Inflation obviously isn’t it.
GDP?
Unemployment?
Currency strength?
Public perception?
Stock market?
Prime interest rate?
Multiple?
How are they weighted?
Or is this purely his subjective opinion?

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I cant open your link. If it's a magic eight ball, that tells the prices of timber, syrup, cattle and other ag prices, please resend it. I find all those to change, sometimes every week. So unless you are looking over the shoulder of my tax agent at the end of every year, your full of shit with knowing how well I am doing.

It's just Steve Forbes on Fox saying Joe Biden's economy is the best in the world...

It's always relative, so compared to everyone else we are doing just great. Every one of my 7 kids are doing very well. Jobs are everywhere. One of my daughters trains new hires. She told me that turnover is very high, because people are constantly job shopping without worry over it.

quote:

She told me that turnover is very high, because people are constantly job shopping without worry over it.

Actually, that says a lot.

Why are they constantly job shopping?

And, why are they without worry over it?

I think it's because there is little or no loyalty incentive, either way, employer or employee. It's not like it used to be where there were benefits like health care and retirement, and vesting after a specified time.

It used to be that some jobs had unions, with voice, representing employees, and teaching jobs, and govt jobs, all with significant benefits encouraging employee loyalty.

But conservative ideology got rid of most of that, and they plan, by various means, including Project 2025, is to get rid of loyalty incentives for career employees in govt.

Many instances where companies were bought out or went under and took the retirement plans under with them, or just defaulted.

Trump's term, with Betsy Devos running Dept of Education, hit the teachers hard, with support and approval of conservative orgs such as Heritage Foundation, etc.

Dept of Labor - same thing.

Everywhere you look you can find evidence of conservative ideology affecting the job market status, from minimum wage on.

Yet they bitch about and blame employees, and immigration and globalization and sending production and jobs to other countries.

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
Trump is competent, Biden is not
IMO
All these defamation money verdicts are so stupid with these obscene amounts of money … again IMO

trump is a seditionist.

Biden is not.

What a load of shit Kabob is spewing.
Anything Trump did, Union Joe can un-do and add his own on top of.
Health benefits with kids on their parents plan until what 25? 26?. They dont worry.
It's simply the new generational thing, to job hunt, and to jump from job to job.
I see it with my nieces and nephews, I see it with all the kids they grew up with and I see and talk to on a regular basis. They just like to try everything/everywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
Trump is competent, Biden is not
IMO
All these defamation money verdicts are so stupid with these obscene amounts of money … again IMO

trump is a seditionist.

Biden is not.

Biden is senile

Trump is not

Trump the ding ding ding woosh boom GOP candidate:

https://youtu.be/WLkS5gTNm9c?si=iwRFreDmmjM9Q-A9

TRUMP describes a missile launch: "Ding ding ding ding ding ding ... Boom!"

Not only is he the "big beautiful wall" guy, now he's the big beautiful dome guy.

Trump is demented.
Biden is not.
But boy, what a shitty pair to draw to.

Even looking at the third-party possibles, it's discouraging. But it's ripe.

IMO, the only way Trump could win, or a sure way, is for someone like Manchin to run as third party, with no counter point conservative.

The job market has changed.

Lots of jobs chasing few good, qualified candidates results in unreasonably high starting pay which leads to little room to give longevity increases as your labor costs are very high.

If I switched jobs every couple years I’d be making probably twice what I do now, maybe 3x if I wanted to work in a big city.

The unions have something to do with this as well. Can’t pay a more productive but less senior employee more than the long service folks… unless you make them management of some sort.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

She told me that turnover is very high, because people are constantly job shopping without worry over it.

Actually, that says a lot.

Why are they constantly job shopping?

And, why are they without worry over it?

I think it's because there is little or no loyalty incentive, either way, employer or employee. It's not like it used to be where there were benefits like health care and retirement, and vesting after a specified time.

It used to be that some jobs had unions, with voice, representing employees, and teaching jobs, and govt jobs, all with significant benefits encouraging employee loyalty.

But conservative ideology got rid of most of that, and they plan, by various means, including Project 2025, is to get rid of loyalty incentives for career employees in govt.

Many instances where companies were bought out or went under and took the retirement plans under with them, or just defaulted.

Trump's term, with Betsy Devos running Dept of Education, hit the teachers hard, with support and approval of conservative orgs such as Heritage Foundation, etc.

Dept of Labor - same thing.

Everywhere you look you can find evidence of conservative ideology affecting the job market status, from minimum wage on.

Yet they bitch about and blame employees, and immigration and globalization and sending production and jobs to other countries.

quote:

If I switched jobs every couple years I’d be making probably twice what I do now, maybe 3x if I wanted to work in a big city.

So you didn't take advantage of the situation to better yourself financially? Doesn't sound all that smart to me.

Not everyone wants to relocate on a regular basis. Even less so if kids are involved, and in a good school. Depends if money is the only important thing in your life or not.

Switching jobs for money on regular basis can be done when you are young and single
Once you’re married, have house and kids you have a tendency to settle down and stay content and play it safe
Doc is right about that

The difference between participating in an economy and being a commodity in it is having options.

In Biden's economy good employees have them.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
The difference between participating in an economy and being a commodity in it is having options.

In Biden's economy good employees have them.

And difference between you and me is
You are apologist for Biden and I’m Trumpeteer or as you’d like to call me…Maggot

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
The difference between participating in an economy and being a commodity in it is having options.

In Biden's economy good employees have them.

And difference between you and me is
You are apologist for Biden and I’m Trumpeteer or as you’d like to call me…Maggot

The difference between us is I accept objective reality and science while you live inside nesting delusions.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
Trump is competent, Biden is not
IMO
All these defamation money verdicts are so stupid with these obscene amounts of money … again IMO

Trump is a criminal fading into dementia in public, Biden is not.

You may be right....but Biden is a criminal deeply into dementia!

quote:

The difference between us is I accept objective reality and science while you live inside nesting delusions.

I hope you don't mind that I quote that good one.

Wouldn't it be entertaining to watch in real time (limited to the specified "nesting delusions") cascade like a row of stacked dominos falling? On a sufficiently massive scale, that would be scary too.

Given all the shit that's happening in the world today, one must be careful what he wishes for. The cascade could happen or affect us all.

7 jurors were men. 1 of those 7 was African American.

President Trump got up and walked out during closing. He was judged not by the deep state, not by the DOJ, not by the FBI, but a jury of his peers.

All he had to do was stop defaming Ns. Carroll. He chose not to do so. He chose to act like a jerk during the trial.