quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
I’m told that incredibly stupid “why aren’t you wearing a suit” attack came from Marjorie Taylor Greens shack up.

That whole debacle was embarrassing, but revealing. The Trump White House didn’t make any effort whatever to conceal casting their lot with Putin.

But Musk wearing a tee-shirt and ball cap in the Oval Office and Cabinet meetings is fine.

There is a bit of difference......Musk is there working for the American people and I don't believe he's getting paid...... Zelensky was there to ask for help....

Now, me, I think anyone in the oval office should be dressed appropriately.....

I think it is more important to stand up to Russian aggression than to kowtow to Putin. Who give a rat's ass about how Zelinskyy was dressed? The real story is Trump's treachery.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
I don't know what everyone else saw. I saw Trump and Vance tag teaming and bullying a foreign head of state, who thought he was meeting with an ally. While this was embarrassing on many levels, I'm sure it's fine with the Trumpeteers. I've always said, there is nothing he can do bad enough to affect their worship of Trump. The US will have a lot to do to repair the damage Trump will do. Bill

i think macron played well trump and zelensky had no intentions to surrender. they used the event to confront and show allies who trump is really ...with the help of journalists presence. machiavel was strong today ...

Typos are regularly forgiven herein. I'm sure you meant Machiavelli.

Trump definitely set it up for display. Of course, he thought that was right.

There are two aspects or definitions of Machiavellianism.

Machiavellianism may refer to:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Machiavellianism (politics), the political philosophy of Niccolò Machiavelli, often associated with various versions of political realism .

Machiavellianism (psychology), a scale in personality psychology that measures one's cold affect and manipulative orientation.

Note that Machiavelli's political philosophy is defined as political realism. Thus the reality relationship is close to full recognition of internal and external factors.

In recent years the term Machiavellianism has been defined in psychology as a personality character disorder. In this psychological condition reality is distorted or simply the afflicted can't recognize the full scope. Such a person is not capable of diplomacy.

https://www.google.com/search?...B-RB&sclient=gws-wiz

So, the three meetings, Trump with Leaders, demonstrated Machiavellianism, both political and Trump's psychological type.

Musk doesn't work for the American People, Musk works for Musk.

The agencies that Trump has allowed him to most damage are, coincidentally, the ones that were investigating Musk's companies.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
I don't know what everyone else saw. I saw Trump and Vance tag teaming and bullying a foreign head of state, who thought he was meeting with an ally. While this was embarrassing on many levels, I'm sure it's fine with the Trumpeteers. I've always said, there is nothing he can do bad enough to affect their worship of Trump. The US will have a lot to do to repair the damage Trump will do. Bill

i think macron played well trump and zelensky had no intentions to surrender. they used the event to confront and show allies who trump is really ...with the help of journalists presence. machiavel was strong today ...

Typos are regularly forgiven herein. I'm sure you meant Machiavelli.

Trump definitely set it up for display. Of course, he thought that was right.

There are two aspects or definitions of Machiavellianism.

Machiavellianism may refer to:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Machiavellianism (politics), the political philosophy of Niccolò Machiavelli, often associated with various versions of political realism .

Machiavellianism (psychology), a scale in personality psychology that measures one's cold affect and manipulative orientation.

Note that Machiavelli's political philosophy is defined as political realism. Thus the reality relationship is close to full recognition of internal and external factors.

In recent years the term Machiavellianism has been defined in psychology as a personality character disorder. In this psychological condition reality is distorted or simply the afflicted can't recognize the full scope. Such a person is not capable of diplomacy.

https://www.google.com/search?...B-RB&sclient=gws-wiz

So, the three meetings, Trump with Leaders, demonstrated Machiavellianism, both political and Trump's psychological type.

he did not know the name used in english and i read the famous book in french translated machiavel: le prince but thank you for deeper explanation.

quote:

thank you for deeper explanation.

Likewise, it's good to be appreciated.

============================================

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...b9c9a2545ce62a&ei=63

'Defies description': Conservative warns 'there will be consequences' after Trump row
Story by Brad Reed • 17h • 2 min read

Rothman was particularly annoyed at the fact that Trump saw the spat with Zelensky as "great television."

==========================================

Speaking of television:

https://youtu.be/jcNzoONhrmE?si=hXUOeNxrJQeW8Jfn

Trump says he can end Ukraine war in a day

10M views 1 year ago
Donald Trump says if he's re-elected president he would end the Ukraine war in "one day" because he "got along very well" with the Russians.

===============================================

https://youtu.be/mVO1uzOh2bY?si=JipZk4aqsATxjh5r

Trump won't say who he wants to win Ukraine war during CNN town hall

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
I’m told that incredibly stupid “why aren’t you wearing a suit” attack came from Marjorie Taylor Greens shack up.

That whole debacle was embarrassing, but revealing. The Trump White House didn’t make any effort whatever to conceal casting their lot with Putin.

But Musk wearing a tee-shirt and ball cap in the Oval Office and Cabinet meetings is fine.

There is a bit of difference......Musk is there working for the American people and I don't believe he's getting paid...... Zelensky was there to ask for help....

Now, me, I think anyone in the oval office should be dressed appropriately.....

Seriously Jim, if the best defense of an indefensible meeting you can muster is that the person was not dressed appropriately, you need to just concede that the meeting was a disaster.

By the way, here is Musk at the Cabinet meeting. Gotta love the ball cap and prank T-shirt. Nothing like showing respect and deference for the occasion and the meeting.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
I’m told that incredibly stupid “why aren’t you wearing a suit” attack came from Marjorie Taylor Greens shack up.

That whole debacle was embarrassing, but revealing. The Trump White House didn’t make any effort whatever to conceal casting their lot with Putin.

But Musk wearing a tee-shirt and ball cap in the Oval Office and Cabinet meetings is fine.

There is a bit of difference......Musk is there working for the American people and I don't believe he's getting paid...... Zelensky was there to ask for help....

Now, me, I think anyone in the oval office should be dressed appropriately.....

you re right musk is not getting any contracts from your own govt lol tell that to verizon and faa ...

I missed it. Any punches thrown?

Some of us work but it looks like a lot of you who have posted do not. I have a busy farm which after reading some of this it reminds me why I don't have a heard of nanny goats. It's because they stand at the fence screaming all day for more food while they ignore the lush grazing inside the fence.

It sounds to me that zelinskyy reneged on his minerals deal and was trying to get more money and American troops. He cannot win this war as is unless other countries do his fighting. Not going to happen far as I can see. Also, the American people, by and large, are tired of sending billions of THEIR dollars to a country that has never done a thing for them. So I am glad trump stood up to him, drama notwithstanding.

Ewwwekrane had a chance with the minerals deal and zeeeelinskyyy got greedy. Time to get him off the teat. That said, I bet he comes around and does as trump wants.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I missed it. Any punches thrown?

Some of us work but it looks like a lot of you who have posted do not. I have a busy farm which after reading some of this it reminds me why I don't have a heard of nanny goats. It's because they stand at the fence screaming all day for more food while they ignore the lush grazing inside the fence.

It sounds to me that zelinskyy reneged on his minerals deal and was trying to get more money and American troops. He cannot win this war as is unless other countries do his fighting. Not going to happen far as I can see. Also, the American people, by and large, are tired of sending billions of THEIR dollars to a country that has never done a thing for them. So I am glad trump stood up to him, drama notwithstanding.

Ewwwekrane had a chance with the minerals deal and zeeeelinskyyy got greedy. Time to get him off the teat. That said, I bet he comes around and does as trump wants.

Another Putin and Trump apologist

You're off your rocker

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
I’m told that incredibly stupid “why aren’t you wearing a suit” attack came from Marjorie Taylor Greens shack up.

That whole debacle was embarrassing, but revealing. The Trump White House didn’t make any effort whatever to conceal casting their lot with Putin.

But Musk wearing a tee-shirt and ball cap in the Oval Office and Cabinet meetings is fine.

There is a bit of difference......Musk is there working for the American people and I don't believe he's getting paid...... Zelensky was there to ask for help....

Now, me, I think anyone in the oval office should be dressed appropriately.....

Seriously Jim, if the best defense of an indefensible meeting you can muster is that the person was not dressed appropriately, you need to just concede that the meeting was a disaster.

By the way, here is Musk at the Cabinet meeting. Gotta love the ball cap and prank T-shirt. Nothing like showing respect and deference for the occasion and the meeting.

Respect?

In a room with Trump in it??


Hahahaha!

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I missed it. Any punches thrown?

Some of us work but it looks like a lot of you who have posted do not. I have a busy farm which after reading some of this it reminds me why I don't have a heard of nanny goats. It's because they stand at the fence screaming all day for more food while they ignore the lush grazing inside the fence.

It sounds to me that zelinskyy reneged on his minerals deal and was trying to get more money and American troops. He cannot win this war as is unless other countries do his fighting. Not going to happen far as I can see. Also, the American people, by and large, are tired of sending billions of THEIR dollars to a country that has never done a thing for them. So I am glad trump stood up to him, drama notwithstanding.

Ewwwekrane had a chance with the minerals deal and zeeeelinskyyy got greedy. Time to get him off the teat. That said, I bet he comes around and does as trump wants.

Another Putin and Trump apologist

You're off your rocker

I could give a shit about putin. He's another enemy. I feel the same way about zeeelinskyyy.

None of them are of any benefit to the USA or freedom. I feel the same way about many other countries as well. Long live our republic.

Freedom??????

While you support Russia's aggression? Wow....you are more clueless than I figured.

Apathetic and pathetic all at the same time. We did not win the cold war by running away and saying it just cost too much money.

You don't know shit about freedom or we obtained it. Go back under your rock.

I have been trying not to spend to much time on the Political Forum. After reading this thread it seems that, according to our liberal friends, if a person in any way criticizes Zelensky or Ukraine they are undoubtedly Putin's best friend, a KGB agent, and or smuggling weapons to Russia

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Freedom??????

While you support Russia's aggression? Wow....you are more clueless than I figured.

Apathetic and pathetic all at the same time. We did not win the cold war by running away and saying it just cost too much money.

You don't know shit about freedom or we obtained it. Go back under your rock.

Problem with Ann is that she relates “freedom”. With America!

Where both words could never fit in the same sentence!

Oh I know.

She is FREE to chose who rules her.

That is why she chose Trump!

You know, the career criminal who refused to serve his country!

Known as CADET BINE SPUR!

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
I have been trying not to spend to much time on the Political Forum. After reading this thread it seems that, according to our liberal friends, if a person in any way criticizes Zelensky or Ukraine they are undoubtedly Putin's best friend, a KGB agent, and or smuggling weapons to Russia

Perhaps what you should be taking away from this thread is that your President's actions have called into question long time strategic alliances with our allies in Europe . . . causing them to question the willingness of the US to honor bilateral commitments. Listen to what they are saying. Listen to what your President is saying. Stop just mindlessly succumbing to the knee-jerk reaction to defend the Orange Savior.

Fuck you Jines, Trump is no saviour! I just want to know what we should give to them, is there a limit!

The U.S. is giving money away like there is no limit, with no and I mean NO monitoring.

Should we let Putin take over the world? What's that old saying? Freedom isn't free.

What would Reagan think about capitulation to the Russians?

We are giving the Ukrainians money and outdated weapons, we can't afford that but we can afford a tax break for the wealthiest Americans?

Well capitulation to Russia would to me means we would not send Ukraine anything. It seems we have sent quite a bit, what is the limit? No one seems to have an answer to my question

You better start closing down all the pointless military bases you have around the world!

What is the point??

You got your arse kicked in every pointless war you started!

Including this one!

Please tell me about the outdated weapons we have given. Again what is the limit of what we should give them. Still no answers

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
Well capitulation to Russia would to me means we would not send Ukraine anything. It seems we have sent quite a bit, what is the limit? No one seems to have an answer to my question

Asking what the limit is, mis the wrong question.

The question is can Ukraine repay if that's what is required, and that's what the minerals deal should have been about.
But Zelensky was correct in asking for some guarantees before signing away their minerals. Because If I was Putin, the first thing Id do without such been given, is offer Ukraines minerals to Trump as well.

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
Fuck you Jines, Trump is no saviour! I just want to know what we should give to them, is there a limit!

The U.S. is giving money away like there is no limit, with no and I mean NO monitoring.

I have answered that question on here many times as to a limit. This Administration is seeking to force Ukraine into all the concessions w no security agreement. That will only mean Russia will come eat the rest of Ukraine on 4-5 years, then more of Europe.

Russia has to withdraw from mainland Ukraine, period, not negotiable.

Otherwise. give Ukraine whatever it says it needs to kill Russians until the Christian Messiah comes back.

In exchange, Ukraine and the West recognize Crimea as Russian.


Ukraine is not permitted into NATI, but is permitted into the EU.

Western troops shall not be stationed in Ukraine.

The sanctions removed w assets reinstated.

Otherwise, no deal and the west removes Russia from the international community making them a nation the West does not do business with.

Pre-which invasion, Joshua? Obama's or Jobama's?

i HIGHLY doubt Ukraine would ever be voted into the EU, but, then again, I though the same about Turkey, and that's been a dead letter for over a decade -

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
Fuck you Jines, Trump is no saviour! I just want to know what we should give to them, is there a limit!

The U.S. is giving money away like there is no limit, with no and I mean NO monitoring.

When his actions are blindly defended without question by his followers, when they take his statements on faith . . . looks like the Orange Savior to me.

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
Well capitulation to Russia would to me means we would not send Ukraine anything. It seems we have sent quite a bit, what is the limit? No one seems to have an answer to my question

As much as it takes to stop the Russian aggression is my opinion.

We have sent Israel almost a trillion dollars(adjusted for inflation) in the post war period, more than any other country. Should we stop sending Israel aid as well? How many trillion in tax breaks do the top tax brackets deserve in a time of high deficits?

What is quite a bit when you are talking about the price of freedom? Seems to me that our boys in Iraq and Afghanistan paid a much higher cost than a few tax dollars that are paid by the average American to fund the fight for freedom in Ukraine.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
Well capitulation to Russia would to me means we would not send Ukraine anything. It seems we have sent quite a bit, what is the limit? No one seems to have an answer to my question

As much as it takes to stop the Russian aggression is my opinion.

We have sent Israel almost a trillion dollars(adjusted for inflation) in the post war period, more than any other country. Should we stop sending Israel aid as well? How many trillion in tax breaks do the top tax brackets deserve in a time of high deficits?

What is quite a bit when you are talking about the price of freedom? Seems to me that our boys in Iraq and Afghanistan paid a much higher cost than a few tax dollars that are paid by the average American to fund the fight for freedom in Ukraine.

well israel is another topic that is hilarious thinking the right wing supported them while look at who is the right wing like the klan or aryan brother lol ...

Well the answer has been delivered whatever it takes. Well that seems ridiculous with the situation our country is in.
I think we are giving to much to Israel as well as the rest of the world.
A country that has massive debt giving money away that would be embarrassing to a drunken sailor

I’m confused. What’s the “security” Zelenskyy is demanding before he accepts a ceasefire. Zelenskyy is adamant that there be a 100% withdrawal to pre 2014 boundaries, financial reparations and an armed NATO force in residence. He’s trying to draw three cards to an inside straight. Trump pointed to the futility of that, but Zelenskyy is doubling down. He’s fought a courageous holding action but Russia knows all about wars of attrition. Even as a Marine, I learned that discretion is the better part of valor.

Somebody tell me the Euro or Democrat’s plan and how they’re better than Trump’s .
The elephant in the room is Putin’s nuclear stockpile. Does anyone believe he won’t use it if the U.S. tries to force out Russia from captured territory. Sanctions…. A joke. Europe is still paying Russia for fuel. Those monies are supporting/financing the killing of Ukrainians.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
Fuck you Jines, Trump is no saviour! I just want to know what we should give to them, is there a limit!

The U.S. is giving money away like there is no limit, with no and I mean NO monitoring.

I have answered that question on here many times as to a limit. This Administration is seeking to force Ukraine into all the concessions w no security agreement. That will only mean Russia will come eat the rest of Ukraine on 4-5 years, then more of Europe.

Russia has to withdraw from mainland Ukraine, period, not negotiable.

Otherwise. give Ukraine whatever it says it needs to kill Russians until the Christian Messiah comes back.

In exchange, Ukraine and the West recognize Crimea as Russian.


Ukraine is not permitted into NATI, but is permitted into the EU.

Western troops shall not be stationed in Ukraine.

The sanctions removed w assets reinstated.

Otherwise, no deal and the west removes Russia from the international community making them a nation the West does not do business with.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I’m confused. What’s the “security” Zelenskyy is demanding before he accepts a ceasefire. Zelenskyy is adamant that there be a 100% withdrawal to pre 2014 boundaries, financial reparations and an armed NATO force in residence. He’s trying to draw three cards to an inside straight. Trump pointed to the futility of that, but Zelenskyy is doubling down. He’s fought a courageous holding action but Russia knows all about wars of attrition. Even as a Marine, I learned that discretion is the better part of valor.

Somebody tell me the Euro or Democrat’s plan and how they’re better than Trump’s .

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
Fuck you Jines, Trump is no saviour! I just want to know what we should give to them, is there a limit!

The U.S. is giving money away like there is no limit, with no and I mean NO monitoring.

I have answered that question on here many times as to a limit. This Administration is seeking to force Ukraine into all the concessions w no security agreement. That will only mean Russia will come eat the rest of Ukraine on 4-5 years, then more of Europe.

Russia has to withdraw from mainland Ukraine, period, not negotiable.

Otherwise. give Ukraine whatever it says it needs to kill Russians until the Christian Messiah comes back.

In exchange, Ukraine and the West recognize Crimea as Russian.


Ukraine is not permitted into NATI, but is permitted into the EU.

Western troops shall not be stationed in Ukraine.

The sanctions removed w assets reinstated.

Otherwise, no deal and the west removes Russia from the international community making them a nation the West does not do business with.

Not caving in to an imperialistic madman seems to be the plan that Trump does not understand. Send the Ukrainians what they need, weapons, money, keep up the pressure on Putin.


Trump acting like Neville Chamberlin is a god damn embarrassment.

Again, here is what I would support:

Russia withdraws from Ukraine (not negotiable)
Ukraine, the West, the U.S. recognizes the annexation of Crimea.
Sanctions lifted and assets restored to Russia.
Ukraine barred from joining NATO.
No US or West military bases in Ukraine.
Russia recognize the borders of Ukraine.
Ukraine joins the EU.


If Russia were to agree to the above and Ukraine say no, I would say fine. You do so so US aid.

However, Russia can have nothing more. If Russia says no, then keep killing Russians to the Christian messiah comes back.


Now, Trump won. He won promising to abandon Ukraine. It is what it is. We said he would do this, Chamberlin it up. The far Right said no. Well, here we are. U.S. and Russia do Ukraine holding talks on how to win the war. Trump is actually more morally bankrupt than Chamberlain. Chamberlain did not want British troops in a war (lives). Trump is setting the table for Russia to devour Europe, cause WWIII when Ukraine does not want our lives, just the tools to kill Russians for everyone.


Let Ukraine kill all the Russians it wants. If the Russian Military and People get sick of it, they can get rid of this regime.

Ukraine doesn’t have any soldiers left. Zelenskyy confirmed that yesterday. The war now is a meat grinder of WWI tactics that is killing Ukrainians faster than they can replace trained combatants. Ukraine needs weapons AND soldiers, but regardless of the weapons supplied, without enough trained soldiers, the weapons are practically useless.

The time to have stopped the invasions instead of caving to a madman was before Biden and Obama allowed Putin’s aggressions. Anyone expecting and demanding that Trump unfuck the weakness of Joe and Barack is asking for a miracle.

I will pray for that miracle but it may be only available using third party surrogates… which means our military. God help us all if our folks are on the ground fighting Russians.

BTW, sanctions.. Europe is buying Russian fuels this day and Europe’ cash is used to kill Ukrainians this day and European hypocrites are railing against Trumps efforts for a cease fire this day.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I’m confused. What’s the “security” Zelenskyy is demanding before he accepts a ceasefire. Zelenskyy is adamant that there be a 100% withdrawal to pre 2014 boundaries, financial reparations and an armed NATO force in residence. He’s trying to draw three cards to an inside straight. Trump pointed to the futility of that, but Zelenskyy is doubling down. He’s fought a courageous holding action but Russia knows all about wars of attrition. Even as a Marine, I learned that discretion is the better part of valor.

Somebody tell me the Euro or Democrat’s plan and how they’re better than Trump’s .

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
Fuck you Jines, Trump is no saviour! I just want to know what we should give to them, is there a limit!

The U.S. is giving money away like there is no limit, with no and I mean NO monitoring.

I have answered that question on here many times as to a limit. This Administration is seeking to force Ukraine into all the concessions w no security agreement. That will only mean Russia will come eat the rest of Ukraine on 4-5 years, then more of Europe.

Russia has to withdraw from mainland Ukraine, period, not negotiable.

Otherwise. give Ukraine whatever it says it needs to kill Russians until the Christian Messiah comes back.

In exchange, Ukraine and the West recognize Crimea as Russian.


Ukraine is not permitted into NATI, but is permitted into the EU.

Western troops shall not be stationed in Ukraine.

The sanctions removed w assets reinstated.

Otherwise, no deal and the west removes Russia from the international community making them a nation the West does not do business with.

Not caving in to an imperialistic madman seems to be the plan that Trump does not understand. Send the Ukrainians what they need, weapons, money, keep up the pressure on Putin.


Trump acting like Neville Chamberlin is a god damn embarrassment.

The best I can tell, in exchange for territorial concessions Zelenskyy wants the and West to guarantee the new borders with a mutual defense agreement. Similar to France and Czechoslovak before WWII or England and Belgium before WWI.

At that point, we might as well have them join NATO. Russia will never agree. We do not want that level of commitment. That is why I take tts position Russia withdraw from mainland Ukraine die recognizing the reality of Crimea.

Peter Zeihan releases his videos delayed outside of Patreon. So this one dropped today from before the Oval Office shitshow.

Its interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV82poPUJO0

Including the part about how damaging Vance has been so far and to keep him away form any negotiations.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Ukraine doesn’t have any soldiers left. Zelenskyy confirmed that yesterday. The war now is a meat grinder of WWI tactics that is killing Ukrainians faster than they can replace trained combatants. Ukraine needs weapons AND soldiers, but regardless of the weapons supplied, without enough trained soldiers, the weapons are practically useless.

The time to have stopped the invasions instead of caving to a madman was before Biden and Obama allowed Putin’s aggressions. Anyone expecting and demanding that Trump unfuck the weakness of Joe and Barack is asking for a miracle.

I will pray for that miracle but it may be only available using third party surrogates… which means our military. God help us all if our folks are on the ground fighting Russians.

BTW, sanctions.. Europe is buying Russian fuels this day and Europe’ cash is used to kill Ukrainians this day and European hypocrites are railing against Trumps efforts for a cease fire this day.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I’m confused. What’s the “security” Zelenskyy is demanding before he accepts a ceasefire. Zelenskyy is adamant that there be a 100% withdrawal to pre 2014 boundaries, financial reparations and an armed NATO force in residence. He’s trying to draw three cards to an inside straight. Trump pointed to the futility of that, but Zelenskyy is doubling down. He’s fought a courageous holding action but Russia knows all about wars of attrition. Even as a Marine, I learned that discretion is the better part of valor.

Somebody tell me the Euro or Democrat’s plan and how they’re better than Trump’s .

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
Fuck you Jines, Trump is no saviour! I just want to know what we should give to them, is there a limit!

The U.S. is giving money away like there is no limit, with no and I mean NO monitoring.

I have answered that question on here many times as to a limit. This Administration is seeking to force Ukraine into all the concessions w no security agreement. That will only mean Russia will come eat the rest of Ukraine on 4-5 years, then more of Europe.

Russia has to withdraw from mainland Ukraine, period, not negotiable.

Otherwise. give Ukraine whatever it says it needs to kill Russians until the Christian Messiah comes back.

In exchange, Ukraine and the West recognize Crimea as Russian.


Ukraine is not permitted into NATI, but is permitted into the EU.

Western troops shall not be stationed in Ukraine.

The sanctions removed w assets reinstated.

Otherwise, no deal and the west removes Russia from the international community making them a nation the West does not do business with.

Not caving in to an imperialistic madman seems to be the plan that Trump does not understand. Send the Ukrainians what they need, weapons, money, keep up the pressure on Putin.


Trump acting like Neville Chamberlin is a god damn embarrassment.

BTW you are buying oil from us despite threatening with tariffs war ... do you think we will not retaliate ...

Why did Biden + Harris get along so well with Zelenskyy ?????
All slimy + corrupt to the core !!!
How many Billion $$$$$$$$ did Biden laundering through Zelenskyy ?

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Ukraine doesn’t have any soldiers left. Zelenskyy confirmed that yesterday. The war now is a meat grinder of WWI tactics that is killing Ukrainians faster than they can replace trained combatants. Ukraine needs weapons AND soldiers, but regardless of the weapons supplied, without enough trained soldiers, the weapons are practically useless.

The time to have stopped the invasions instead of caving to a madman was before Biden and Obama allowed Putin’s aggressions. Anyone expecting and demanding that Trump unfuck the weakness of Joe and Barack is asking for a miracle.

I will pray for that miracle but it may be only available using third party surrogates… which means our military. God help us all if our folks are on the ground fighting Russians.

BTW, sanctions.. Europe is buying Russian fuels this day and Europe’ cash is used to kill Ukrainians this day and European hypocrites are railing against Trumps efforts for a cease fire this day.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I’m confused. What’s the “security” Zelenskyy is demanding before he accepts a ceasefire. Zelenskyy is adamant that there be a 100% withdrawal to pre 2014 boundaries, financial reparations and an armed NATO force in residence. He’s trying to draw three cards to an inside straight. Trump pointed to the futility of that, but Zelenskyy is doubling down. He’s fought a courageous holding action but Russia knows all about wars of attrition. Even as a Marine, I learned that discretion is the better part of valor.

Somebody tell me the Euro or Democrat’s plan and how they’re better than Trump’s .

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
Fuck you Jines, Trump is no saviour! I just want to know what we should give to them, is there a limit!

The U.S. is giving money away like there is no limit, with no and I mean NO monitoring.

I have answered that question on here many times as to a limit. This Administration is seeking to force Ukraine into all the concessions w no security agreement. That will only mean Russia will come eat the rest of Ukraine on 4-5 years, then more of Europe.

Russia has to withdraw from mainland Ukraine, period, not negotiable.

Otherwise. give Ukraine whatever it says it needs to kill Russians until the Christian Messiah comes back.

In exchange, Ukraine and the West recognize Crimea as Russian.


Ukraine is not permitted into NATI, but is permitted into the EU.

Western troops shall not be stationed in Ukraine.

The sanctions removed w assets reinstated.

Otherwise, no deal and the west removes Russia from the international community making them a nation the West does not do business with.

Not caving in to an imperialistic madman seems to be the plan that Trump does not understand. Send the Ukrainians what they need, weapons, money, keep up the pressure on Putin.


Trump acting like Neville Chamberlin is a god damn embarrassment.

BTW you are buying oil from us despite threatening with tariffs war ... do you think we will not retaliate ...

I think a tariff war with canada is pretty dang stupid - but this is a thought experiment

this is a pretty cool tradesite https://oec.world/en/profile/c...deFlowSelector=flow1

well, you could flip that "knowing canada is facing a tariff, why not match on an unrelated product and raise price on oil" ...
well,
1: contracts
2: as some banana republic figured out, the trade is grossly lopsided -- and the product is freely available in other places.. if the trade war goes to TOTAL embargo, which side suffers worse?

roughly 25% of all of canada's exports are crude and cars -- with the US being 71% of the canada's world trading partner

conversely, canada is 14.5% precent of US exports - which, other than automotive products and selling refined petrol products, there is nothing "Critical"

the entire canadian to US import trade is ~0.4T -- with a basis of $3.2T total imports (that's 8:1)

that's 5:1 leverage --

generally not great odds - Perhaps the same as a slim Labrador vs an old black bear - there isn't a question on outcomes, just on the grace during the conflict

there is no case where Canada "wins" a trade war with the US -

but the entire scenario is frickin stupid - if we want to adjust things, nice-- get your people to talk to our people, and find a way --

quote:

the entire canadian to US import trade is ~0.4T -- with a basis of $3.2T total imports (that's 8:1)

that's 5:1 leverage --

With a population that’s 10% that of the U.S., how do you expect Canada to buy or consume dollar for dollar?

Of course there’s an imbalance; it’s impossible for there not to be.

Secondly, you might recall a trade agreement called the USMCA that Trump himself imposed to replace NAFTA. The only problem is that Trump is notorious for not honoring agreements (or marriage vows, for that matter.)

Trump has had plenty of exposure to the New York mafia, and the shit he’s pulling now is right out of their playbook.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Ukraine doesn’t have any soldiers left. Zelenskyy confirmed that yesterday. The war now is a meat grinder of WWI tactics that is killing Ukrainians faster than they can replace trained combatants. Ukraine needs weapons AND soldiers, but regardless of the weapons supplied, without enough trained soldiers, the weapons are practically useless.

The time to have stopped the invasions instead of caving to a madman was before Biden and Obama allowed Putin’s aggressions. Anyone expecting and demanding that Trump unfuck the weakness of Joe and Barack is asking for a miracle.

I will pray for that miracle but it may be only available using third party surrogates… which means our military. God help us all if our folks are on the ground fighting Russians.

BTW, sanctions.. Europe is buying Russian fuels this day and Europe’ cash is used to kill Ukrainians this day and European hypocrites are railing against Trumps efforts for a cease fire this day.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I’m confused. What’s the “security” Zelenskyy is demanding before he accepts a ceasefire. Zelenskyy is adamant that there be a 100% withdrawal to pre 2014 boundaries, financial reparations and an armed NATO force in residence. He’s trying to draw three cards to an inside straight. Trump pointed to the futility of that, but Zelenskyy is doubling down. He’s fought a courageous holding action but Russia knows all about wars of attrition. Even as a Marine, I learned that discretion is the better part of valor.

Somebody tell me the Euro or Democrat’s plan and how they’re better than Trump’s .

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
Fuck you Jines, Trump is no saviour! I just want to know what we should give to them, is there a limit!

The U.S. is giving money away like there is no limit, with no and I mean NO monitoring.

I have answered that question on here many times as to a limit. This Administration is seeking to force Ukraine into all the concessions w no security agreement. That will only mean Russia will come eat the rest of Ukraine on 4-5 years, then more of Europe.

Russia has to withdraw from mainland Ukraine, period, not negotiable.

Otherwise. give Ukraine whatever it says it needs to kill Russians until the Christian Messiah comes back.

In exchange, Ukraine and the West recognize Crimea as Russian.


Ukraine is not permitted into NATI, but is permitted into the EU.

Western troops shall not be stationed in Ukraine.

The sanctions removed w assets reinstated.

Otherwise, no deal and the west removes Russia from the international community making them a nation the West does not do business with.

Not caving in to an imperialistic madman seems to be the plan that Trump does not understand. Send the Ukrainians what they need, weapons, money, keep up the pressure on Putin.


Trump acting like Neville Chamberlin is a god damn embarrassment.

BTW you are buying oil from us despite threatening with tariffs war ... do you think we will not retaliate ...

I think a tariff war with canada is pretty dang stupid - but this is a thought experiment

this is a pretty cool tradesite https://oec.world/en/profile/c...deFlowSelector=flow1

well, you could flip that "knowing canada is facing a tariff, why not match on an unrelated product and raise price on oil" ...
well,
1: contracts
2: as some banana republic figured out, the trade is grossly lopsided -- and the product is freely available in other places.. if the trade war goes to TOTAL embargo, which side suffers worse?

roughly 25% of all of canada's exports are crude and cars -- with the US being 71% of the canada's world trading partner

conversely, canada is 14.5% precent of US exports - which, other than automotive products and selling refined petrol products, there is nothing "Critical"

the entire canadian to US import trade is ~0.4T -- with a basis of $3.2T total imports (that's 8:1)

that's 5:1 leverage --

generally not great odds - Perhaps the same as a slim Labrador vs an old black bear - there isn't a question on outcomes, just on the grace during the conflict

there is no case where Canada "wins" a trade war with the US -

but the entire scenario is frickin stupid - if we want to adjust things, nice-- get your people to talk to our people, and find a way --

once you are removing the oil and electricity i stand my ground will see how it goes ...

dont you have an egg crisis? you are importing 20% of them from us and the second country is UK remember who pee in the corn flakes ... unfortunately you the people of your country willpay for it ...

if only 10% less of travel from canada to your canada are happening here are the consequences ...

A 10% reduction in Canadian travel could mean 2.0 million fewer visits, $2.1 billion in lost spending and 14,000 job losses

https://www.ustravel.org/press...travel-united-states

and we re nothing lol ....

I want to be REALLY honest with you --
the loses from tourism, outside a very FEW "destination" cities, is meaningless -- less than the burden for supporting say, 130k illegals (NYC has the data) and the self-deportation already done (generally headed south) will save the US more than the tourist loss.

I think the trade war with canada is madness, but the BEST outcome of a protected trade war between us is that canada gets in a few good shots, and destroys their economy -- meanwhile, a couple extra ULCC pull up in the gulf, and there's next to zero impacts to the gas prices .. and if we wanna fight about cars, the us has more than a few mothballed plants that would take the jobs --

Sorry, canada can't win this, but they can contain it

"we'll sell to china" -- yep, for exactly the same price, THEN eat the shipping - accomplishing two things -1 willing to deal with china, 2 the EPA would then free up a couple permits, and we go to burn WTI --

All you really need to appreciate about the meeting is how do think Putin reacted to the meeting. Was he anxious and concerned? Was he encouraged and exuberant? Who would have imagined that the US would ever be conducting its foreign policy in such a way as to have Putin sleeping soundly at night. Trump is just such a reprehensible person on so many levels.