What does devolution mean in the Bible?
Devolution is defined as the “descent or degeneration to a lower or worse state.” Ever since the Garden of Eden, humankind has been constantly devolving.

I don't know when, historically, the Belief in Fiction became a thing, as contest or friction with or substitute for reality. It started a long time ago, long before the Bible or Koran. The beliefs have changed over the years, but the concept hasn't.

How can evolution and devolution coexist? How long can the paradox exist?

Will devolution lose the contest? With the emergence of Trumpism and its tether to Belief in Fiction, and all the Christian support, the prospects for further devolution (“descent or degeneration to a lower or worse state.”) looks probable.

https://youtube.com/shorts/cQE...?si=py07ptMHRUWOewnm

Christopher Hitchens on Christianity

=========================================================

OTOH, maybe Trumpism isn't degenerate after all. Maybe it's the pursuit of perfection in an art-form called Doublethink.

IOW, Trumpism is Doublethink run amuck.

https://cfa.gmu.edu/news/2019-...d%20just%20performed.

Doublethink: the act of simultaneously accepting two mutually contradictory beliefs as correct. According to Winston Smith, the protagonist of 1984, doublethink is “To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself—that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed.

==================================

Here's a more easily understood and common form of Doublethink:

https://youtube.com/shorts/fYr...?si=yzG_y6a1sNp7p8gK

Religious Scientists

Is any state of belief worse than believing men don’t have XY chromosomes, Joe Biden is cogent, Kamala and her lawn figure blow-up running mate had the sense to pour piss out of a boot, folks would gladly pay off someone else’s student loans for gender studies, Hamas is peaceful, giving Iran $150 billion to finance terrorism is a good idea, only Black Lives Matter, its racist to not be a racist, it’s okay to give the CCP the Philippines, the laptop from hell was a Russian trick, Joe isn’t the Big Guy, having a partisan Jan 6th investigation was smart, confirming a Supreme Court Justice who doesn’t know the difference in a man and a woman, no jury would convict Hillary, cow farts cause global warming but sun spots don’t, Adam Saffer is an honest man, California is solvent, Obamacare is affordable, meritocracy is taboo in the military, converting a paperwork misdemeanor into 34 felonies isn’t lawfare, pardoning Hunter is combating lawfare…. Ad nauseum.

Both political parties fully support belief in fictions, and contradictory beliefs. Of course, saying that is called false equivalency by the usual suspects around here.

While I generally find the right wing ones less problematic to me, that’s a position not a fact.

I left out the two most bizarre beliefs of the left:
A 12 year old is competent to decide whether or not he/she/them/it can be castrated, but not to drink out of a water hose and…
It’s racist to use voter ID to identify who your voters/citizens are, but it’s not racist to require ID to attend a Democrat convention.

Two of the more bizarre beliefs of the right:

Blacks shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Non-citizens shouldn't be granted civil rights.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I left out the two most bizarre beliefs of the left:
A 12 year old is competent to decide whether or not he/she/them/it can be castrated, but not to drink out of a water hose and…
It’s racist to use voter ID to identify who your voters/citizens are, but it’s not racist to require ID to attend a Democrat convention.

Now Ernest, don't expect a rational liberal response to this. The truth makes them crazy. Well, crazier than they already are.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Is any state of belief worse than believing men don’t have XY chromosomes, Joe Biden is cogent, Kamala and her lawn figure blow-up running mate had the sense to pour piss out of a boot, folks would gladly pay off someone else’s student loans for gender studies, Hamas is peaceful, giving Iran $150 billion to finance terrorism is a good idea, only Black Lives Matter, its racist to not be a racist, it’s okay to give the CCP the Philippines, the laptop from hell was a Russian trick, Joe isn’t the Big Guy, having a partisan Jan 6th investigation was smart, confirming a Supreme Court Justice who doesn’t know the difference in a man and a woman, no jury would convict Hillary, cow farts cause global warming but sun spots don’t, Adam Saffer is an honest man, California is solvent, Obamacare is affordable, meritocracy is taboo in the military, converting a paperwork misdemeanor into 34 felonies isn’t lawfare, pardoning Hunter is combating lawfare…. Ad nauseum.

I rest my case - on both points, the doublethink and the belief in fiction.

=============================================

Now if Doc Butler can rant a leftist equivalence to the example the Judge provided from the rightist POV, which are the factors/beliefs upon which his vote was decided.


Since he "knows" that both parties are equivalent in this regard, it should be an easy task to provide examples.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Both political parties fully support belief in fictions, and contradictory beliefs. Of course, saying that is called false equivalency by the usual suspects around here.

While I generally find the right wing ones less problematic to me, that’s a position not a fact.

Pretty easy.

That Donald Trump is the best president the US has ever had is equivalent to the Biden is cogent and not senile one.

Obama’s return of money to Iran was pretty much equivalent to the Reagan Iran-Contra money.

The Bengazi hearings were pretty much identically done to the 1/6/21 hearings.

The Republican continual diatribe against Obamacare but unwillingness to address it when they had both branches of congress and the presidency all while campaigning on the issue…

Is that enough?

Nice try Doc.

I can see how this is confusing.

The Judge did a good job of providing HIS beliefs about what the left believes. And stated his beliefs as facts. They are all fiction.

In that context your examples are still from rightist POV.

What I'm looking for are beliefs held by leftists that are fiction, stand alone, especially regarding what leftists believe about the right.

For example: The judge thinks/believes the left believes men don't have XY chromosomes. That's just BS fiction. The rest of his post is redundant.

Reading your attempt to make equivalences is just confusing to me. I think you are trying to give examples of what each side believes that is fiction and somehow equivalent.

I'll try to say it another way.

I'll pick another example from the Judge's post.

He says: "converting a paperwork misdemeanor into 34 felonies isn’t lawfare". The Judge believes the left thinks that's a fact, or just believes it. The linking of dots in the sentence is flawed and leaves out a lot. The left doesn't believe that taken as a whole. So, it's not the left in that example who believes in fiction. It's the Judge who believes the fiction, which he made up and projected.

Judge you pretty much nailed it!

Mangina enema can bloviate all she wants.....but you nailed it!



.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
Judge you pretty much nailed it!

Mangina enema can bloviate all she wants.....but you nailed it!



.

Why waste my time posting, when I have you two to tell me what I believe?

Typical Trumpie lies.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

Why waste my time posting, when I have you two to tell me what I believe?

Typical Trumpie lies.

I don't think your post is a waste of time, to the extent this forum matters.

When they project or tell what the left believes, it's coming from a closed feedback loop. Somewhere Faux News fits in there.

They are actually telling what they believe.

It's part of the crazy doublethink/belief stuff.

Orwell's 1984 was dystopian fiction. Little did we know that he missed the year by Forty years, for his fiction to morph into perverted reality.

They HAVE to believe that shit to justify Trump. This forum is so insufficient to explore the psychological aspects of the political indoctrination these rightists demonstrate.

But, it's better than in-person.

Two days ago I got into a political discussion with a far-right friend who I hadn't seen for a while. I was familiar with almost all his BS because of this forum. The "discussion" reminded me of how useless it is to try sorting facts from fiction in person.

He said several times that he was keen about facts. I knew that was BS, but difficult to pin down. He also "knew" so much about leftist beliefs, especially about men using women's restrooms with leftist approval. What finally ended the conversation was when I told him a fact - That Trump offered quid-pro-quo to some oil executives - for a $$ billion to his campaign he would promise "drill baby drill". He didn't believe me and said prove it. So, I showed him an article on my smart phone published by NYT. He said something like NYT is fake news, they lie. Then he said show me ten news sources. So, I did. Then he called them all liars.

He was so nice and concerned about me believing in lies/fiction that he kindly offered to pay for a subscription to Bill O'Reilly's podcast, so I could hear the truth and facts. I kindly declined. https://www.bing.com/search?q=...ghsh=0&ghacc=0&ghpl=

Two days ago I got into a political discussion with a far-right friend who I hadn't seen for a while. I was familiar with almost all his BS because of this forum. The "discussion" reminded me of how useless it is to try sorting facts from fiction in person.

He said several times that he was keen about facts. I knew that was BS, but difficult to pin down. He also "knew" so much about leftist beliefs, especially about men using women's restrooms with leftist approval. What finally ended the conversation was when I told him a fact - That Trump offered quid-pro-quo to some oil executives - for a $$ billion to his campaign he would promise "drill baby drill". He didn't believe me and said prove it. So, I showed him an article on my smart phone published by NYT. He said something like NYT is fake news, they lie. Then he said show me ten news sources. So, I did. Then he called them all liars.

He was so nice and concerned about me believing in lies/fiction that he kindly offered to pay for a subscription to Bill O'Reilly's podcast, so I could hear the truth and facts. I kindly declined. https://www.bing.com/search?q=...ghsh=0&ghacc=0&ghpl=[/QUOTE]

This is the root of the problem. Total unshakeable believe in your leader/cause that all logic and reasoning is gone. The base symptom of a cult. The thought process of stepping back and looking at an issue, evaluating the facts, researching it and finally making an informed option is very rare today. Even if you do all your homework and do make an informed decision you are not always correct. Part of being an intelligent informed adult is to be willing to listen to other options and reevaluate and modify your option if (Big IF) the facts support it. Too many people today spout social media post as facts when they are out and out lies and do not think for themselves. People need to step back and start stepping back and evaluating stuff they see with jaded glasses. ME is one of the few who does appear to think for himself and form his own opinion and IMHO has some credibility here.

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:
ME is one of the few who does appear to think for himself and form his own opinion,......

Weeeeeellllllllll,......
M.E. gets up in the morning With his pre conceived notions, preferences, prejudices and opinions firmly in place and then looks for confirmation. M.E. iirc has put a lot of pen to paper prophesying gloom and doom at Trump's command that we haven't seen yet. Sure, most here seem to go about their mornings in similar fashion.

As I've mentioned before, I've never seen the attraction to Trump and still don't. The only reason I've been given to vote for Trump that has traction with me is the, "never vote Democrat!" one, and there was a time twenty years ago I may have agreed, but having live thru the War on Terror and Corona, I'm having a hard time seeing how the Dems are substantially worse than the GOP.

Doc Lane recently labeled me a cynic, and I thought to myself, well yeah, right! I've been here 56 years and have paid attention some of the time. Case in point, in what world does a man from Texas or a man from rural Alaska think he'll get any kind of educated leadership from people that grew to fame, fortune and power from everyone to the East Coast or California? Since Reagan I haven't seen it.

I suspect everyone here at one time or another has noticed and commented on the increasing power grab by the Executive branch. Sure maybe they only noticed it when it was the party in office they opposed. In either case, that is un American.

I'm having a little difficulty figuring out the point of this thread. Liars will lie and those who want to will believe them. Is that about it? Lefties will lie about some things and righties will lie about others. Both sides will often lie when the truth would have suited better. I don't think this is a revelation. Regards, Bill.

quote:

I'm having a little difficulty figuring out the point of this thread.

That's okay.

First point is to stir thought and discussion.

That's working.

There IS revelation somewhere. I think things have changed. There's been a shift, maybe long in the making. I'm pondering it - that's all,

I'll try to clarify in a post later. I'm still re-reading Scott's post above.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:
ME is one of the few who does appear to think for himself and form his own opinion,......

Weeeeeellllllllll,......
M.E. gets up in the morning With his pre conceived notions, preferences, prejudices and opinions firmly in place and then looks for confirmation. M.E. iirc has put a lot of pen to paper prophesying gloom and doom at Trump's command that we haven't seen yet. Sure, most here seem to go about their mornings in similar fashion.

As I've mentioned before, I've never seen the attraction to Trump and still don't. The only reason I've been given to vote for Trump that has traction with me is the, "never vote Democrat!" one, and there was a time twenty years ago I may have agreed, but having live thru the War on Terror and Corona, I'm having a hard time seeing how the Dems are substantially worse than the GOP.

Doc Lane recently labeled me a cynic, and I thought to myself, well yeah, right! I've been here 56 years and have paid attention some of the time. Case in point, in what world does a man from Texas or a man from rural Alaska think he'll get any kind of educated leadership from people that grew to fame, fortune and power from everyone to the East Coast or California? Since Reagan I haven't seen it.

I suspect everyone here at one time or another has noticed and commented on the increasing power grab by the Executive branch. Sure maybe they only noticed it when it was the party in office they opposed. In either case, that is un American.

I like you Scott. You make me think and work on being humble, and you don't try to humiliate me.

quote:

M.E. gets up in the morning With his pre conceived notions, preferences, prejudices and opinions firmly in place and then looks for confirmation.

That's a bingo. Don't we all? I'll challenge my pre-conceived notions and confirmation bias against yours or anyone herein and enjoy it. Oh wait - isn't that the point of this forum?

quote:

M.E. iirc has put a lot of pen to paper prophesying gloom and doom at Trump's command that we haven't seen yet.

It's not so much "prophesying" as it is predicting, if there's a difference, and it's based on what he's said and done and promised and the types of people he chooses in his close orbit. No embellishment needed. All one has to do is read the "conservative" manifesto called Project 2025, for starters.

quote:

The only reason I've been given to vote for Trump that has traction with me is the, "never vote Democrat!" I'm having a hard time seeing how the Dems are substantially worse than the GOP. Case in point, in what world does a man from Texas or a man from rural Alaska think he'll get any kind of educated leadership from people that grew to fame, fortune and power from everyone to the East Coast or California?

I like your various thoughts and the challenge of connecting them to something central.

As to your last sentence quoted above, include a man from rural Georgia. And, the expectation of educated (and a lot more, such as wise) leadership is reasonable no matter where from, east or west or central, borne into it or earned the fame, fortune and power. Take JFK for example.

It's like we live in a nation of destructive, petulant children and can't have nice things.

Yes we all do. Because of our diversity I think you and I and others are genuinely surprised and shocked at the differences of biases expressed here.

As for our federal leadership and JFK, I see a different and new hurdle for today's day and age, our diversity. JFK had it easy, we were a United States. Soviets Bad! Democracy Good! Pretty simple. Not a question of bombs to build but rather how many. The Civil Rights movement was going to succeed, it was just a matter of how much in which avenue. America was united in its opposition to the East and its progress as a society.

Today the States are not united. California as a voting block has no interest in anything Oklahoman, Idahoan, Floridian or Maine-ish. IMO neither Trump, nor Harris or Biden or Clinton give a fuck! about anything that goes on in Texas, Georgia or Alaska. I don't believe any of them are interested in secure borders, national defense nor domestic peace and prosperity they've all had adequate opportunity to secure those for America, but instead have used the Executive office for their personal, private and privileged agenda. It remains to be proven that a vote for any of the above last month was a vote for the peace, prosperity and happiness of Georgia/ Texas/ Alaska and as Doc Lane said, I am a cynic.

How can an Executive unite AOC and Jtex? How can the President rally Gavin Newsome and Rick DeSantis?

I'm not seeing it.

quote:

I see a different and new hurdle for today's day and age, our diversity. JFK had it easy, we were a United States. Soviets Bad! Democracy Good! Pretty simple. Not a question of bombs to build but rather how many. The Civil Rights movement was going to succeed, it was just a matter of how much in which avenue. America was united in its opposition to the East and its progress as a society.

Nailed it there.

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:
Two days ago I got into a political discussion with a far-right friend who I hadn't seen for a while. I was familiar with almost all his BS because of this forum. The "discussion" reminded me of how useless it is to try sorting facts from fiction in person.

He said several times that he was keen about facts. I knew that was BS, but difficult to pin down. He also "knew" so much about leftist beliefs, especially about men using women's restrooms with leftist approval. What finally ended the conversation was when I told him a fact - That Trump offered quid-pro-quo to some oil executives - for a $$ billion to his campaign he would promise "drill baby drill". He didn't believe me and said prove it. So, I showed him an article on my smart phone published by NYT. He said something like NYT is fake news, they lie. Then he said show me ten news sources. So, I did. Then he called them all liars.

He was so nice and concerned about me believing in lies/fiction that he kindly offered to pay for a subscription to Bill O'Reilly's podcast, so I could hear the truth and facts. I kindly declined. https://www.bing.com/search?q=...ghsh=0&ghacc=0&ghpl=[/QUOTE

This is the root of the problem. Total unshakeable believe in your leader/cause that all logic and reasoning is gone. The base symptom of a cult. The thought process of stepping back and looking at an issue, evaluating the facts, researching it and finally making an informed option is very rare today. Even if you do all your homework and do make an informed decision you are not always correct. Part of being an intelligent informed adult is to be willing to listen to other options and reevaluate and modify your option if (Big IF) the facts support it. Too many people today spout social media post as facts when they are out and out lies and do not think for themselves. People need to step back and start stepping back and evaluating stuff they see with jaded glasses. ME is one of the few who does appear to think for himself and form his own opinion and IMHO has some credibility here.

I trust ME’s credibility to catch a yellow cat.

But back to your point. You and your articles allege that the only reason Trump is pro oil exploration is due to donations to his campaign and had they not contributed he would be tough on exploration???

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Yes we all do. Because of our diversity I think you and I and others are genuinely surprised and shocked at the differences of biases expressed here.

As for our federal leadership and JFK, I see a different and new hurdle for today's day and age, our diversity. JFK had it easy, we were a United States. Soviets Bad! Democracy Good! Pretty simple. Not a question of bombs to build but rather how many. The Civil Rights movement was going to succeed, it was just a matter of how much in which avenue. America was united in its opposition to the East and its progress as a society.

Today the States are not united. California as a voting block has no interest in anything Oklahoman, Idahoan, Floridian or Maine-ish. IMO neither Trump, nor Harris or Biden or Clinton give a fuck! about anything that goes on in Texas, Georgia or Alaska. I don't believe any of them are interested in secure borders, national defense nor domestic peace and prosperity they've all had adequate opportunity to secure those for America, but instead have used the Executive office for their personal, private and privileged agenda. It remains to be proven that a vote for any of the above last month was a vote for the peace, prosperity and happiness of Georgia/ Texas/ Alaska and as Doc Lane said, I am a cynic.

How can an Executive unite AOC and Jtex? How can the President rally Gavin Newsome and Rick DeSantis?

I'm not seeing it.

Another excellent post Scott! Well thought out.

AOC and I can never be united......but we could each be allowed to live our lives they we we want to......

I would never mandate her drive a 2500HD......

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:



I would never mandate her drive a 2500HD......

Definitely giggling about that one.

I remain mind blown that two decades after 9/11 we have large and multiple Pro Hamas demonstrations in America.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
[QUOTE]

It's like we live in a nation of destructive, petulant children and can't have nice things.

I like you too M.E., you know that and you're right, we do live in a nation of destructive, petulant children, but I'd add, also speaking different languages that no other understands, ( Tower of Babel,).

The end of the story you have read before.

quote:

As for our federal leadership and JFK, I see a different and new hurdle for today's day and age, our diversity. JFK had it easy, we were a United States. Soviets Bad! Democracy Good! Pretty simple. Not a question of bombs to build but rather how many. The Civil Rights movement was going to succeed, it was just a matter of how much in which avenue. America was united in its opposition to the East and its progress as a society.

Not true. You say JFK had it easy...I disagree. The Bay of Pigs and Cuban Missile Crisis were easy? A miscall there would have ended our world. Yet, JFK had it easy?

The 1964 Civil Rights Act passed, over near unified southern opossition, because of Kennedy's assassination. The southern states wanted to continue lynching blacks--with the blessings of their representatives in Congress.

Passage of the Civil Rights Act was not inevitable. If JFK hadn't been murdered, it would have taken at least another twenty years, maybe, for federal protection for civil rights violations.

I was born in South Georgia in 1946. I’ve never seen a pointy white hood or a burning cross. In 1964, without Federal pressure, the local school board voted to voluntarily integrate the segregated school system. I was the president of the student government, naive and dumber than a stump. There was no big newspaper announcement or a single protest. At my suggestion (because, I guess, I had seen images of Little Rock), the first 8 Black kids didn’t attend the first day and we (me speaking) had an assembly of white/brown and Asian kids to discuss the three year plan to total integration. I don’t remember a single student in the 1500 student high school giving a shit. Then, the next day the new students came. Other than the shortly experienced novelty which faded in a week, that was it but for one confrontation that school year (two students in a stairwell, no injuries). The irony was that the “white” student was Romani and later married a cousin of the Black student.
I joined the Marine Corps in 1966 and was commissioned in 1968. We all bled red. Even liberals from Idaho.
I don’t know what part of the United States you’re talking about where folks wanted to Lynch Black people but it sure as hell wasn’t a part that I spent any time in. In 1969 I had a Black roommate (a fellow fledgling Naval aviator, too) in Meridian, Mississippi. After a couple of fools confronted us at a theater, the Chamber of Commerce invited us to their Friday “after hours” cocktail gathering to, I guess, show the Navy that Meridian wasn’t “burning”. The Nay’s money was more important than skin color. Was then and always be.

You might be interested in studying a bit more about the voluntary transformations that killed Jim Crow. BTW, what state had the largest membership in the KKK? Indiana. Hardly Southern.

I was born in South Georgia in 1948. I have never seen a pointy white hood or a burning cross. But I knew members of the KKK. Some were relatives from Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. Ultra racists. Christofascists.

I graduated from high school in 1966. My class was the last segregated class at that school. They didn't de-segregate during a school year but started the first day of next school year. I don't know if the de-segregation was smooth or not, but my younger brother said it was rough.

Private schools became popular. One which I'm familiar with still thrives. Several teachers from the public school took jobs at the private school.

The fight is still on. That's why all the conservative push to fund private schools with TP money. I think it's called the voucher system. That's what Betsy DeVos was about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy_DeVos

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/19...ecretary-betsy-devos

=================================================================

https://www.nea.org/nea-today/...ate-public-education

How Project 2025 Would Devastate Public Education
The 900-page blueprint for a second Trump presidency would gut federal education funding, sanction discrimination against LGBTQ+ students, divert taxpayer funds to private schools, and codify book bans and classroom censorship on a national level. That's just the beginning.

This is kind of far off from the thread, but the public school system in the United States is an absolute failure. I think we’re somewhere like 40th in first world countries’ rankings in education (after spending more money than anyone else). If a voucher system allows choice, regardless of income, Doesn’t it seem reasonable to make some attempt to fix the broken system? Is competition somehow inherently bad. Are we doomed to failure because the NEA controls to many politicians?

quote:

The two Southern Democrats accused most strongly of die-hard segregation were Lester Maddox and George Wallace. You might be interested in studying a bit the transformation that they and their followers made towards a more color free society, something to which the current Democrat party seems to be opposed.

That's BS. Those two were ultra racist, along with David Duke

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...lace#Racial_attitude

Lester Maddox's legacy might be construed as some pivot away from racism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_Maddox#Legacy

That sure is some revisionist history Earnest.

It must be somewhere other than the South where I saw a bumper sticker that read "If I knew it was going to be this bad, I would have picked my own damn cotton"

Rose colored glasses it appears.

At one time, yes…. But when Wallace ran for president, check out his platform. Maddox appointed more folks of color to his administration than most governors in Northern states.

Maddox as Governor
Rumors that Maddox would return Georgia to a state of massive resistance against segregation proved unfounded. In fact, Maddox proved reasonably progressive on many racial matters. As governor he backed significant prison reform, an issue popular with many of the state’s African Americans. He appointed more African Americans to government positions than all previous Georgia governors combined, including the first Black officer in the Georgia State Patrol and the first Black official to the state Board of Corrections. Though he never finished high school, Maddox greatly increased funding for the University System of Georgia.
Maddox’s term was not without controversy, however. Fearing riots during the funeral procession of Martin Luther King Jr. in 1968, Maddox overreacted with a heavy-handed police presence. He also refused to order flags at state facilities to be lowered to half-mast for the funeral. As the leader of the state’s delegation to the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago, Illinois, Maddox fought against the civil rights aims of the party.
Despite such conflict, Maddox remained a popular governor with many of Georgia’s citizens, paradoxically including many African Americans. He instituted such populist ideas as “Little People’s Day,” when average citizens could line up to meet with the governor twice a month at the Governor’s Mansion on West Paces Ferry Drive in Buckhead.

https://www.georgiaencyclopedi...d%20of%20Corrections.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
This is kind of far off from the thread, but the public school system in the United States is an absolute failure. I think we’re somewhere like 40th in first world countries’ rankings in education (after spending more money than anyone else). If a voucher system allows choice, regardless of income, Doesn’t it seem reasonable to make some attempt to fix the broken system? Is competition somehow inherently bad. Are we doomed to failure because the NEA controls to many politicians?

You may be right.

I don't know enough about it to make a good argument either way.

But I do know enough to be skeptical of any "conservative" plan. They can talk a good line, and claim whatever plan they have is not based in racism, but they have skills in spin.

It's like destroy the public school system then say "see, it's no good, let's fix it". Same thing with Obamacare. Same thing with deep state and practically all Govt. functions.

Anything from Trump or project 2025 is not about fixing. It's about destroying something.

It's like Musk's daydream of inhabiting Mars. If we have the ability and tech to live on Mars, then why not use that ability and tech to fix Earth?

I’m sorry, but I had deleted a portion of my earlier post about George Wallace and Lester Maddox. I’ve added something back above you with a statement about Lester appointing more Black people to his administration than all the prior governors of Georgia combined. It’s not that Lester wasn’t a racist, that would be impossible to deny, but I knew him relatively well and he sometimes made sense. Just enough to be dangerous, I guess.

At the end of Lester’s life, you could go to
Underground Atlanta and Lester would sell you an ax handle like he used to wield at his restaurant.

https://www.gilderlehrman.org/...klan-membership-1915

Elsewhere on this thread is a conversation about failed public education. I guess I was correct.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
That sure is some revisionist history Earnest.

It must be somewhere other than the South where I saw a bumper sticker that read "If I knew it was going to be this bad, I would have picked my own damn cotton"

Rose colored glasses it appears.

quote:

It's like Musk's daydream of inhabiting Mars. If we have the ability and tech to live on Mars, then why not use that ability and tech to fix Earth?

Too many regulations preventing such.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

It's like Musk's daydream of inhabiting Mars. If we have the ability and tech to live on Mars, then why not use that ability and tech to fix Earth?

Too many regulations preventing such.

Too much denial.

How come you all forgot the most important one?

Your own beliefs that you are living in a free society?

And no country in the world comes even close?

Failure to pay: taxes or register for conscription, grow more than your crop allotment, buy health insurance, violate zoning or EPA regulations on your own property, get vaccinated, send your children to school, serve jury duty, use “hate” speech…. All loses of freedom, but the worse is that General Washington quashed the Whiskey Rebellion.
Allegedly, Daniel Boone said he knew it was time to move further west when he could see smoke from his neighbor's chimney. Unfortunately, there are nowhere to still go and homestead anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
How come you all forgot the most important one?

Your own beliefs that you are living in a free society?

And no country in the world comes even close?

It's interesting that Judge brought up George Wallace and Lester Maddox, and I mentioned David Duke.

I'm surprised that someone hasn't mentioned that the southern Democrats in general were very racist, and remind us that Lincoln was a Republican.

Wallace and Maddox were among the old-school democrat racists.

Did you know that David Duke had to change party affiliation to Republican in order to win an election?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...esidential_candidate

In December 1988, Duke changed his political affiliation from the Democratic Party to the Republican Party.[49]

He served in the House from 1989 until 1992.[54]

Those southern states, Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and Louisiana are all still racist states but most of the politicians winning elections are Republican.

The major shift was Nixon's Southern Strategy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

the Southern strategy was a Republican Party electoral strategy to increase political support among white voters in the South by appealing to racism against African Americans.[1][2][3] As the civil rights movement and dismantling of Jim Crow laws in the 1950s and 1960s visibly deepened existing racial tensions in much of the Southern United States, Republican politicians such as presidential candidates Richard Nixon and Barry Goldwater developed strategies that successfully contributed to the political realignment of many white, conservative voters in the South who had traditionally supported the Democratic Party so consistently that the voting pattern was named the Solid South. The strategy also helped to push the Republican Party much more to the right.[4] By winning all of the South, a presidential candidate could obtain the presidency with minimal support elsewhere.[5][6

The phrase "Southern strategy" refers primarily to "top down" narratives of the political realignment of the South which suggest that Republican leaders consciously appealed to many white Southerners' racial grievances to gain their support.[7] This top-down narrative of the Southern Strategy is generally believed to be the primary force that transformed Southern politics following the civil rights era. The scholarly consensus is that racial conservatism was critical in the post-Civil Rights Act realignment of the Republican and Democratic parties.

Note:

The way I understand it, Trumpism is a Top-Down Narrative.

ME…
And LBJ said that if we can pass the various civil rights acts, “We’ll have those n——— voting for us for a hundred years.” Now that’s been a successful strategy for the still racist Democrat race pimps, hasn’t it?

I suggest that if you tell both sides of the story and become intellectually honest with yourself, you’ll set you free from trying to support the cruel plantation/victim scheme of the left, while still allowing the making whatever arguments you feel justified by the right’s actions. And there are plenty.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Yes we all do. Because of our diversity I think you and I and others are genuinely surprised and shocked at the differences of biases expressed here.

As for our federal leadership and JFK, I see a different and new hurdle for today's day and age, our diversity. JFK had it easy, we were a United States. Soviets Bad! Democracy Good! Pretty simple. Not a question of bombs to build but rather how many. The Civil Rights movement was going to succeed, it was just a matter of how much in which avenue. America was united in its opposition to the East and its progress as a society.

Today the States are not united. California as a voting block has no interest in anything Oklahoman, Idahoan, Floridian or Maine-ish. IMO neither Trump, nor Harris or Biden or Clinton give a fuck! about anything that goes on in Texas, Georgia or Alaska. I don't believe any of them are interested in secure borders, national defense nor domestic peace and prosperity they've all had adequate opportunity to secure those for America, but instead have used the Executive office for their personal, private and privileged agenda. It remains to be proven that a vote for any of the above last month was a vote for the peace, prosperity and happiness of Georgia/ Texas/ Alaska and as Doc Lane said, I am a cynic.

How can an Executive unite AOC and Jtex? How can the President rally Gavin Newsome and Rick DeSantis?

I'm not seeing it.

I'll respond to your first and next to last paragraphs.

IMO, anyone who claims they are not bias in some way and don't engage in bias confirmations are lying to themselves and others. IMO, the only way to mitigate it is to acknowledge it, recognize it in self and others, and work through or around it. Many don't do any of that, instead embrace it, tethered to ID.

It would be difficult to unite anything or anyone with JTEX who didn't conform with his bias. I don't look at the Executive as having the job of uniting the disparities as broad as between AOC and JTEX types of Americans. OTOH, I do expect the Executive to not engage in narratives and other actions designed to worsen division intentionally, for political exploitation. The healing has to be from bottom up, like grass-roots, not top down.

Trump's American Carnage narratives are not healing. Instead, they are divisive by design.