Let the MAGA faithful explain how this is not the case. https://www.usatoday.com/story...lection/70430661007/

Just one of the many reasons to vote for anyone but Trump.

I have been absolutely blown away by the number of Americans Trump was able to gather around him to support his crazy agenda. Trump has exposed that sizable portion of our population that doesn’t give a flying fuck about democracy or American institutions, all the while, screaming about freedom and patriotism. It’s hard to wrap your brain around.

Do we not think there are already laws that would prevent the changes trump has in mind?

It seems to me the legislature is fairly opposed to trump, and it looks to me like the judiciary retains it's independence.

No?

Bone chilling

Trump Pledges Death Penalty For Human Traffickers—Here’s What Else He’s Promising If Elected In 2024

https://www.forbes.com/sites/b...024/?sh=3f6f90b41736

I post this article link especially for people like Scott King, who still think we and the guardrails can control Trump:

"Fifth-tier people": Ex-Trump official Miles Taylor on who would want to work for the next regime
Opinion by Chauncey DeVega • 3h ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...winp2fptaskbar&ei=21

Anti-Trumpers hit by 'brutal wake up call' as former President storming ahead
Story by Adam Chapman • 38m ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...77816f33ca8a01&ei=13

John M. Crisp: No Labels seeks a middle ground that doesn’t exist anymore
Story by John M. Crisp, Tribune News Service • 8h ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...89ee7d458b39db&ei=63


================================================

I predict that Trump will be the GOP nominee in 2024.

Here's a timeline:

The primaries are over March 12, 2024. Super Tuesday is March 5, 2024.

March 25, 2024: The trial in NY is set to begin

May 20, 2024: The trial for the documents theft case is set to begin

Probably the trial for the conspiracy culminating on 1/6 will begin in May or June of 2024.

Who knows when the Trial in Georgia will be set.

July 15 - 18, 2024, The Republican National Convention is scheduled.

So, the drama now is just a prologue.

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
I have been absolutely blown away by the number of Americans Trump was able to gather around him to support his crazy agenda. Trump has exposed that sizable portion of our population that doesn’t give a flying fuck about democracy or American institutions, all the while, screaming about freedom and patriotism. It’s hard to wrap your brain around.

I agree with you.

And I am absolutely blown by the number of people supporting deranged geriatrics like Biden, and such stupid idiots like Kamala who is bordering on being non human!

I think the extremes in both parties are largely a reaction to the excesses on the opposite side.

Trump would have never if Hillary had never if GW Bush had never if Al Gore had never…

People have been voting against something for way too long. I suspect JFK was the last one that most voted “for” as opposed to against.

And the election he won, neither side was all that different in its positions that they were running on. JFK and RMN were actually friends.

quote:

I think the extremes in both parties are largely a reaction to the excesses on the opposite side.

Doc, I have consistently pointed out how you do the both sides thing, like equivalence. I have also said many times that it's a false equivalence. But you never give up.

There is no equivalence on the left in comparison to Trumpism. Reactionary - yes. How can sanity NOT react to Trumpism?

Insofar as the Right reacting to the Left - there's a difference in reacting to made up shit, lies, fomented hate, compared to reacting to reality realization and explicit fascist plans.

Talking about extremes - that should be easily identified. Yet, the whole spectrum of Trumpism is not deemed extremist by most republicans, apparently you included.

I think republicans who don't consider Trumpism as extremist are in denial of reality. And furthermore, Trump has a very good probability of being the GOP nominee and our next POTUS. That should alarm everyone. Yet republicans continue to poo-poo; like Scott King says, in effect, that the guardrails will take care of the problem. As he, and you, say, so far - so good. The judiciary seems to remain independent. The DOJ and FBI too. But the attack is on already.

I remember specifically that the general thought on the Right was that DJT could be controlled. Even some of his appointees thought so, and failed. That's past thinking. It's proven to be not so.

Does it not alarm you that there are specific and well-developed and well-funded plans within the GOP "establishment" to change the independence of the judiciary, the DOJ, The FBI, and practically all the fundamental agencies of Govt, to loyalists?

Show me equivalence of that on the Left?

I guess we have to agree to disagree that Trumpism (which I agree is bad now) is so much worse than the extremist democrats.

No gas generators? No NG appliances? WTF?

Vs. Trump’s statements about getting even with everyone who slights him and his claims of taking over things that in no way could happen…

And now the leftists in academia are having a fringe say Biden should ignore SCOTUS and use his own interpretation of the constitution? And you don’t think both fringes are equally bad?

It’s your OPINION that it’s a false equivalency. I’m fine with that, but it isn’t a factual position, it’s opinion.

Well, the good thing is that we both have our say re opinion.

I try as best I can to support my opinions.

I know practically nothing about the gas generators and NG appliances, Biden ignoring the SCOTUS issues. That's a distraction anyway.


Quote:
"Trump’s statements about getting even with everyone who slights him and his claims of taking over things that in no way could happen…"

That's the main thing I'm complaining about. I think it could happen, and if not the chaos it would cause trying, and trying to defeat it has got to lead to something no good. Lots of people on the Right support it happening.

I criticize those who don't recognize the significance. Who would have imagined the harm done by the ridiculous plans before the 1/6 events, which were just a part of it?

I think my view about the false equivalence is more than just opinion. I've given good support for the opinion.

===============================================

Here are some samples, from the media, which explains my position more:

First is a ridiculous article:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...2c05fb0d48e0bb&ei=21

The ‘Real Reason’ Donald Trump Wants the White House Back
Story by Harrison Kass • 1h ago

Then a real question:

What would the GOP have prosecutors do with evidence against Trump?
If prosecutors have evidence of Trump committing felonies, what do Republicans think they should do? It's a question the GOP doesn't know how to answer.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-m...ence-trump-rcna95900

===============================================

We all know the answer. Republicans would whitewash it. They would bury the evidence. They would not prosecute. It's very clear.

USA Today is a partisan rag.

If you want to talk about someone who is actually destroying liberty, talk about the idiots in power right now.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I guess we have to agree to disagree that Trumpism (which I agree is bad now) is so much worse than the extremist democrats.

No gas generators? No NG appliances? WTF?

Vs. Trump’s statements about getting even with everyone who slights him and his claims of taking over things that in no way could happen…

And now the leftists in academia are having a fringe say Biden should ignore SCOTUS and use his own interpretation of the constitution? And you don’t think both fringes are equally bad?

It’s your OPINION that it’s a false equivalency. I’m fine with that, but it isn’t a factual position, it’s opinion.

Remind me again about when the Democrats tried to overturn a general election for President of the United States by rioting and storming the US Capital.

It's an utterly false equivalency.

And trying to overturn the election was an unintended trial run. I think they thought it would actually work. Maybe they thought there was nothing to lose. I hope they were very wrong.

Since then they have developed plans which are far more extensive and far more likely to succeed. The goal is still the same - different strategy.

Still - nothing to lose? Same scenario. There's a lot to lose. The stakes are bigger this time.

Doc, talking about the chances of success are not probable is sorta not relevant today - right now. We know for a fact that the second tier plans exist, well developed, well funded.

What's next?

Change of ideoplgy? Not likely.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
And trying to overturn the election was an unintended trial run. I think they thought it would actually work. Maybe they thought there was nothing to lose. I hope they were very wrong.

Their goal was to overturn the election, so what do you believe stopped them from bringing in their weapons and opening fire?

Were they waiting for Trump to make the call? And if that was the case, why didn’t Trump make that call?

I think things started to fall apart for the insurrectionists / traitors when:

1. The Secret Service didn't allow Trump to go to the Capitol.
2. Pence didn't play ball.

Their momentum was lost. They did not have the support of the American people.

They didn't want any additional personal legal exposure. (The same reason Elmer Rhodes, of Oath Keeper fame, stayed outside and sent his people in. He wasn't risking his own skin.)

The bottom line was, and is, that Trump surrounds himself with people just like him, blustering cowards.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I guess we have to agree to disagree that Trumpism (which I agree is bad now) is so much worse than the extremist democrats.

No gas generators? No NG appliances? WTF?

Vs. Trump’s statements about getting even with everyone who slights him and his claims of taking over things that in no way could happen…

And now the leftists in academia are having a fringe say Biden should ignore SCOTUS and use his own interpretation of the constitution? And you don’t think both fringes are equally bad?

It’s your OPINION that it’s a false equivalency. I’m fine with that, but it isn’t a factual position, it’s opinion.

And it was MAGA Republicans in the House that blocked bills to stop those policy proposals. Same as a MAGA Senator from Alabama blocking senior military and civilian command.

Those are policy debates that Congress can regulate w enough votes. Insurrection and keeping a defeated president in power is not a policy debate. A defeated President calling for suspension of the Constitution, his immediate reinstatement, and stealing top secret documents refusing to return (and lying about it) is not a policy debate.

Yeah, gas stoves are equivalent.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I guess we have to agree to disagree that Trumpism (which I agree is bad now) is so much worse than the extremist democrats.

No gas generators? No NG appliances? WTF?

Vs. Trump’s statements about getting even with everyone who slights him and his claims of taking over things that in no way could happen…

And now the leftists in academia are having a fringe say Biden should ignore SCOTUS and use his own interpretation of the constitution? And you don’t think both fringes are equally bad?

It’s your OPINION that it’s a false equivalency. I’m fine with that, but it isn’t a factual position, it’s opinion.

If you're going to maintain your equivalencies, and don't want them labeled false, you ought to bring something to back them up. Anything?

Opinions may be opinions, but some have more weight than others. I'd give considerable weight to your medical opinions, for instance. But your political opinions, not so much. You gave some examples, but no specifics. True there are leftwing extremists, but none have the following Trump has. So they don't raise the same level of threat to our nation.

How about naming the leftwing equivalent of Trump? Then we'll talk about equivalencies.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...70dd54fcc03fb7&ei=16

A New Kind of Fascism

1h ago

In his first term, Trump shamelessly abased himself before Russian President Vladimir Putin, exchanged “love letters” with North Korea’s Kim Jong Un, signed the Doha Agreement with the Taliban committing the U.S. to withdrawal from Afghanistan, and petulantly sought to downgrade U.S. treaty obligations to NATO and South Korean allies that he deemed to be “delinquent” and getting a “free ride.”

Trump has continued in the same isolationist vein in recent interviews and speeches. He has railed against “globalists.” He has promised to settle the Russian-Ukrainian conflict in 24 hours by cutting off aid to Kyiv if President Volodymyr Zelensky does not reach an immediate settlement with Moscow—that is, capitulate to Putin. He has disparaged Taiwan as a predator nation that stole microchip manufacturing from the U.S. (That Chinese President Xi Jinping would construe the simultaneous abandonment of Ukraine and dismissal of Taiwan as anything other than a green light to invade the latter seems improbable.)

No question, Trump inflicted grave damage on our country’s political culture, stoking toxic polarization and reveling in dishonesty. And Trumpism did exhibit distinct elements of the fascist style of politics: the inflammatory rallies; the incessant mongering of fear, grievance, and victimization; the casual endorsement of violence; the pervasive embrace of conspiracy theories; the performative cruelty; the feral instinct for targeting marginalized and vulnerable minorities; and the cult of personality. But the Trump presidency lacked any warlike, expansionist interest, and that made it decisively unlike 20th-century fascism.

Thankfully, also, Trump himself was too lazy, inexperienced, and unprepared to set about systematically constructing a true dictatorship. The main focus of the Trump presidency was less plans and programs and more the theatrics of satisfying his constant, insatiable need for attention and adulation. Everything—whether the state of the economy or the chocolate cake served to China’s Xi Jinping at Mar-a-Lago—had to be extolled as “the greatest ever.”

Until the final weeks of Trump’s term, the guardrails of American democracy seemed to hold firm. The institutions of the federal government remained relatively intact, and civil servants largely secure and uncorrupted. The United States experienced democratic backsliding but not democratic collapse.

In a second term, however, a newly emboldened Trump could well attack democracy itself. The MAGA Republican Party of his making has openly explored ways to transform states where they control all branches of government. States that were once pluralistic democracies with at least some chance of a transfer of power are coming to resemble one-party regimes directed by a minority of the population. (Anne Applebaum’s report from Tennessee is a case history in point.)

In Florida, Governor Ron DeSantis, Trump’s putative rival for the 2024 Republican nomination, has turned his state into a laboratory for testing how a determined, calculating, uninhibited authoritarian can maximize executive power. In many respects, he has already accomplished at the state level what Trump did not have the discipline and focus to do at the federal level. And DeSantis has created a blueprint for other Republican state leaders to follow.

Just as state Republicans have become more ruthlessly autocratic in their methods, a new Trump presidency would be much more efficiently goal-oriented at the federal level. A huge transformation of the administrative state is being deliberately planned. The government agencies and civil service he has decried as the “deep state” would be purged or politicized, and the “retribution” he has promised against his enemies would also be carried out. The “unitary executive” theory long promoted by some Republicans would become the reality of an unabashed authoritarianism.

The very last months of the Trump presidency foreshadowed what a second term would entail. When formerly loyal vassals such as Attorney General William Barr and Defense Secretary Mark Esper demonstrated that they would not cross the line into unconstitutional insurgency, Trump sought sycophants for whom no such line existed. In a new Trump administration, total devotion to the leader would be the sole qualification for appointment.

Unlike previous fascist leaders with their cult of war, Trump still offers appeasement to dictators abroad, but he now promises something much closer to dictatorship at home. For me, what Trump is offering for his second presidency will meet the threshold, and the label I’d choose to describe it would be “isolationist fascism.” Until now, such a concept would have been an oxymoron, a historical phenomenon without precedent. Trump continues to break every mold.