quote:

Is this proof of your own ignorance?

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

I had begun to question your reading comprehension when you repeatedly misunderstood my question, while others members were able to understand and answer it without issue …

Maybe now you can understand it? Maybe not? Didn’t seem too difficult…

Do you even read what you write? That one makes no sense.

I didn't miss your saying you asked your logical question to your fourteen-year-old daughter and someone who has "a bit" of Creole (who aren't blacks, but a mix of blacks, Native Americans, and French) blood.

How about a broader and more persuasive sampling? Why don't you ask black people who have known discrimination?

Because I already know that some would agree and others would disagree.

You keep trying to force me to answer your question yes or no. Some questions can't be answered yes or no.

And some are just disguised arguments, statements, and fantasies.

Yep, and the only reason that you would not be want to answer one of those questions is that you know that it will reveal the fault in you logic.

quote:

How about a broader and more persuasive sampling? Why don't you ask black people who have known discrimination?

Because I already know that some would agree and others would disagree.

quote:

You cried racism and acted like I had done something to hurt your feelings because you were so offended by my assertion that, for African Americans living today, slavery had a sliver lining. Like an idealistic youth who couldn’t accept the truth of my statement you acted like I should take it back. Which begs yhe question, why do snowflakes think that they have a right to live a life free from ever being offended by the truth?

quote:

How about a broader and more persuasive sampling? Why don't you ask black people who have known discrimination?

"Because I already know that some would agree and others would disagree.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
My point all along has been that it's racially insensitive, if not racist, to ask your question. But it keeps whiffing over your head. Now you're chasing imaginary straw men.

The literal answer to your question isn't as important as the fact that you can't ask the question of black people without giving offense. Or maybe, since some whites' ancestors brought them here as slaves, they should be grateful to modern whites for whatever crumbs we throw them.

If you can't ask the question of a black audience, why ask it on a forum of mostly white people?

Unlike some, I'll hazard a guess how black people might respond to your question:

"We'd rather our ancestors had come here as free people and been afforded all the rights and privileges of others."

quote:

who has most likely been raised culturally white

~Ann

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
To say or imply that modern black Americans ought to be grateful their ancestors were brought here as slaves is a racially insensitive, if not a racist thing to say.

would it be racist if a black person said it?

Many modern African Americans are thankful that their ancestors were brought here. You do realize that there are AA people who love America even more than you or I, right? You do realize that a lot of them voted for Trump, correct? You do realize that a lot of blacks are happy with their lives here in America and find it offensive that you would suggest that they are “victims”. They own businesses, employ their fellow Americans. Fight for our country when called. Only a fool would say that is untrue.

Others may find that offensive, but so what? Are the patriotic African Americans supped to hide so as not to offend you, the blue haired SJWs and the “victim” blacks? Feelings are hurt because someone thinks differently than you? Oh, I’m allowed to think it, I just can’t say it? Oh, someone might call me a racist. Yeah, we’re all racist. Even you Roland, even you.

There. If I hurt your feelings by calling a spade a spade, too bad. You've proved you don't care about others' feelings. Why should anyone care about yours?

Bingo! You’re right, YOU SHOULDN’T CARE ABOUT MY FEELINGS. I and yes, I am a spade, and a racist too, just like you. You shouldn’t need to worry about offending anyone, except the stereotypical white female SJW with blue hair. You know that those ones are violent!

But to use “you’re a racist!” or “that’s offensive!” in an attempt to steer an argument away from an uncomfortable point that the other person is trying to make? That is wrong because it is intellectually dishonest. What it the hell makes you believe that you or anyone else is the supreme and final judge of all that is to be deemed offensive?

And what does “offended” mean? That you disagree AND got your feelings hurt?! Yikes. Could it be that you are too sensitive? Does only the victim get to decide what is offensive? What if two victims get into an argument and both are offended, do the both have to be silent? Do they send each other to time out?

If you don't believe in racial insensitivity, why don't you go make that statement to a group of black people? Lane, are you there? What's that you say? You wouldn't do that?

Then you are either more racially sensitive or less brave than you pretend.

You just reinforced the stereotype that black peoples, especially in groups, are dangerous. Is that what you really believe? Because that is racist. Do you realize how offensive that it to many black people?

The last group of black people I was around was at a teaching conference in Portland. They were friendly even though we had just met. We chatted about our students and our own children. They were classy people, it didn’t require any bravery to approach them.

Oh wait! When you said that I should “walk up to a group of black people”, were you referring to a gang of thugs? Because if you mean thugs, you should say that. Assuming that person know that you mean a gang of thugs when you say group of black people, you might get yourself into hot water with a lot of people like me for instance. But would stop anyone who tried to attack you.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
To say or imply that modern black Americans ought to be grateful their ancestors were brought here as slaves is a racially insensitive, if not a racist thing to say.

would it be racist if a black person said it?

Many modern African Americans are thankful that their ancestors were brought here. You do realize that there are AA people who love America even more than you or I, right? You do realize that a lot of them voted for Trump, correct? You do realize that a lot of blacks are happy with their lives here in America and find it offensive that you would suggest that they are “victims”. They own businesses, employ their fellow Americans. Fight for our country when called. Only a fool would say that is untrue.

Others may find that offensive, but so what? Are the patriotic African Americans supped to hide so as not to offend you, the blue haired SJWs and the “victim” blacks? Feelings are hurt because someone thinks differently than you? Oh, I’m allowed to think it, I just can’t say it? Oh, someone might call me a racist. Yeah, we’re all racist. Even you Roland, even you.

There. If I hurt your feelings by calling a spade a spade, too bad. You've proved you don't care about others' feelings. Why should anyone care about yours?

Bingo! You’re right, YOU SHOULDN’T CARE ABOUT MY FEELINGS. I and yes, I am a spade, and a racist too, just like you. You shouldn’t need to worry about offending anyone, except the stereotypical white female SJW with blue hair. You know that those ones are violent!

But to use “you’re a racist!” or “that’s offensive!” in an attempt to steer an argument away from an uncomfortable point that the other person is trying to make? That is wrong because it is intellectually dishonest. What it the hell makes you believe that you or anyone else is the supreme and final judge of all that is to be deemed offensive?

And what does “offended” mean? That you disagree AND got your feelings hurt?! Yikes. Could it be that you are too sensitive? Does only the victim get to decide what is offensive? What if two victims get into an argument and both are offended, do the both have to be silent? Do they send each other to time out?

If you don't believe in racial insensitivity, why don't you go make that statement to a group of black people? Lane, are you there? What's that you say? You wouldn't do that?

Then you are either more racially sensitive or less brave than you pretend.

You just reinforced the stereotype that black peoples, especially in groups, are dangerous. Is that what you really believe? Because that is racist. Do you realize how offensive that it to many black people?

The last group of black people I was around was at a teaching conference in Portland. They were friendly even though we had just met. We chatted about our students and our own children. They were classy people, it didn’t require any bravery to approach them.

Oh wait! When you said that I should “walk up to a group of black people”, were you referring to a gang of thugs? Because if you mean thugs, you should say that. Assuming that person know that you mean a gang of thugs when you say group of black people, you might get yourself into hot water with a lot of people like me for instance. But would stop anyone who tried to attack you.

I find it very offensive that you would imply that my daughter isn’t black because she has been raised white. The truth it that she belongs to both groups. And the same can be said for the millions of other biracial kids.

Excluding my Creole friend is offensive, yet there you went, taking chances, telling your truth. I disagree with you because there are millions of people who identify Creole as being African American. Many of them are both Creole and African American so they should know…

Do you see how that worked, you said something that offended me, I disagree and expressed why. Isn’t that nice? I didn’t even have to warn you of the roving “groups” of “victims” who might assault you if you hurt their feelings.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
My ex wife stopped this afternoon and dropped off some food, we get along very well.
I asked her the Israel question. She thought it was important for the Jews to have their own country. But as she has no close ties to Israel, she would prefer there was no slaughter of jews.
But, she said, she knows plenty of even her relatives that think no cost to high to have a jewish state.
That all who died would be proud to be a martyr for the good of the people.
She said there was nothing offensive about the question, why would I think that?
As Andrew said, people are not as fragile as everyone in the media thinks.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
A wrong like slavery has effects that echo down through the generations, the same as physical, sexual, and emotional abuse tends to run in families. Older black people still remember blatant discrimination. Not everyone can rise above such treatment in a few generations.

Slavers used to split up black families for more efficient breeding. Thereby depriving boys of father role models.

What kind of work ethic would you expect a slave to develop?

What kind of respect for property rights?

Telling the descendants of slaves to move on is very easy for a white man to say. Especially when his own ancestors may have been slavers and he wants to make excuses for them.

quote:

“The worst enemy that the Negro have is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth professing to love Negros and calling himself a liberal, and it is following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros have.
Malcolm X

quote:

I hope that I am just so damned stupid that I have completely misconstrued your meaning.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Rolland you are getting mad and twisting words too.
At no point has anyone but you talked about blacks being "grateful" for slavery.
that is certainly not how I put the question to Andrew.

quote:

As I said Andrew was not offended,

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
I said "suggesting." "Suggest" means "to express or say indirectly."

I didn't twist words. I still think the question suggests that blacks ought to be grateful for slavery.

quote:

[QUOTE]after his return to the United States, Ali reportedly said “Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat” after a reporter asked, “Champ, what did you think of Africa?” Mohammad Ali

quote:

“Man, the U.S.A. is the best country in the world, counting yours. I ain’t fighting off alligators and living in a mud hut.” Mohammad Ali, responding to a question from a foreign reporter.

quote:

The African American descendants of slaves would not exist if not for the trans Atlantic slave trade. They would not exist in America, Africa or anywhere else for that matter.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

As I said Andrew was not offended,

Andrew is your friend, right?

Try asking the question (either version) to black people who aren't your friends.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

My points can be summarized as follows:

- My mama taught me to not intentionally say things that are offensive to people. As a matter of good manners.

We have established that some blacks people agree with the suggestion, others disagree and are offended. How can I know which black people will be offended?

- Suggesting to black people they ought to be grateful for slavery because it allowed them to be born in the US is likely to offend many of them.

“many of them”… but not all. So some might be offended. Does that mean that the question is off limits?

- I never called anyone a racist. I said, and still say, that if you go around saying racist or racially offensive things, don't be surprised if people consider you a racist. That's logic for you.

Hell, you don’t even have to say racist things to be labeled a racist. Just ask a question, a question that black people discuss among themselves, and a white liberal will call you a racist.

- Phony attempt to claim victimhood among the offended don't fly if you are an offender yourself.

Mom! He said it first!

- Brown doesn't engage in good faith debate. He twists words, lies about his opponent's positions, and feigns emotional injury and offense. He claims offense on behalf of his daughter who's a poor victim of discrimination. Maybe he should ask the child's mother what she thinks of his question.

Those are your words not mine. I never said anything close to that.

Mocking the racism that a child of color is bound to face from time to time is offensive as hell. I guess you mama’s lesson didn’t stick?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The original quote that I know of was made by Muhammed Ali — whom we all know is a black man.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Incidentally, you might want to know that your use of Mohammed Ali's words is a logical fallacy known as appeal to authority. Look it up.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Again, why should anyone care about your sense of offense?

How many times do I have to tell you: NO ONE NEEDS TO CARE ABOUT OFFENDING ME, YOU OR ANYONE ELSE!

I pointed it out because, as the self anointed “emotional injury” czar, you seem to have trouble understanding what others might find offensive.

Damn if you aren’t slow on the uptake. Offense doesn’t matter in a discussion about a serious topic. If someone is offended by an argument made in good faith, they can: clutch their pearls, cry into their hanky, or head for a safe space. I couldn’t care less, and neither should you.

But they don’t get to cry “tHaT’s OfFeNcIvE” as though their feelings have any control over the arguments that the other side introduces.

If you don't get it, you don't get it. Please ask your question at every opportunity, and report back to us on the results. Why don't you start with your child's mother?

No point in asking my ex. She is African.

Regardless, my point wasn’t that I wanted an answer from any African American. My point was that the descendants of slaves owe their very existence to the slave trade. If not for the trade, not a single one would exist. Not here, not in Africa or anywhere else. My original post mentioned the fact that they did receive something of value: their ancestors were wronged in the most horrific and brutal way, but that is how they came to be citizens of the greatest country on earth.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The original quote that I know of was made by Muhammed Ali — whom we all know is a black man.

With your concern about logic, doesn't it bother you to resort to an appeal to authority?

quote:

How many times do I have to tell you: NO ONE NEEDS TO CARE ABOUT OFFENDING ME, YOU OR ANYONE ELSE!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The original quote that I know of was made by Muhammed Ali — whom we all know is a black man.

With your concern about logic, doesn't it bother you to resort to an appeal to authority?

Would you not consider Ali an expert on the Civil Rights Movement and more importantly an expert from a black man’s perspective?

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

How many times do I have to tell you: NO ONE NEEDS TO CARE ABOUT OFFENDING ME, YOU OR ANYONE ELSE!

Then why do you keep whining about how offended you are at my words?

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
You hit on one of the reasons that citing Ali is fallacious.