How do you think it is going to work out for young Americans when they yell out that they need their safe space when Chinese troops have them surrounded. It is a scary time to have draft age kids. We have to act now on manufacturing weapons, chips and oil. We can worry about climate change later.
My family has done well in this country, and I believe in capitalism. There are not many places with this kind of opportunities. My wife's grandfather is still alive and WWII vet. He fought in France and Germany. He kept saying at Sunday dinner this week that it takes a unified nation to win a war.

You need to do everything you mentioned.

And forget about the climate.

We have ZERO effect on it.

Been changing since millions of years.

quote:

We can worry about climate change later.

quote:

And forget about the climate.

We have ZERO effect on it.

Been changing since millions of years.

This thinking is the ultimate trajectory of the climate science deniers. It's the bottom line. It's the undercurrent/undertow of all humanity.

Just imagine - in the scope of what MAY be considered one aspect of reality, the above two posts are related to human interactions with one another, fears, aggressions, desires, thought perspectives, all which vary by persons and cultures and nations.

Whereas, climate science, and science in general, for the most part at least, by design and intent, bypasses or goes beyond that. IOW, science (nature of things) is what it is.

Humans invent trouble despite nature.

And ultimately, the trajectory of that alt-reality will defeat the realities of nature and the scientific realities, such as those exposed in the climate science reports.

One thing that strikes me is that if humanity could somehow collectively embrace the realities of nature and our affect on climate change, then there is nothing that can't be solved, including wars, and the preparations thereof, even to the extent of getting rid of nukes.

But nooooo - we have deniers and warmongers to deal with and always will.

If the scientists are right, and I'm sure they are, then it's the climate, and nature itself, which will render the world as no safe place. All man's throws and fits and wars, as a consequence of the stress upon stress of it all WILL combine, and the deniers will ultimately get us all killed, and the children too.

The suffering, meanwhile, will exponentiate, no matter how many weapons, nukes, and opposing folks we kill off.

The OP premise is NOT the answer. It is the problem.

You can call me anything you wish.

As far as I am concerned, it is all just plain, money making bullshit!

Try to tell your green idea to China or India!

Where most of the pollution is coming from.

Greta only has balls dealing with you stupid lot!

Saeed is where he is because of oil.

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Saeed is where he is because of oil.

Most of us "productive members of society" in this country are where we are because of abundant energy!

Lawyers on the other hand......


.

Look at it this way.

If we are going to try and change the reality of the situation by some sort of artificial “equity” solution, you will cause some to ignore it.

If some ignore it, the AGW agenda will not succeed in doing what it is trying to officially accomplish.

All of their solutions are not aimed as solving the problem they purport to fix… they are about using that as a paradigm shift to fix a problem that most refuse to be willing to sacrifice for.

The solutions proposed all are about wealth transfers, not about actually cutting CO2 emissions.

If it was CO2, there would be a massive shift to nuclear power and spending on infrastructure, not starting with unsupported electric vehicles and end user bans of natural gas.

If you can use an electric stove and electric heat and transport for $10/month or continue to use fossil fuels for $250/month, what happens?

Put out drastically cheaper electricity (as opposed to artificially increasing gas prices) and use non CO2 sources for the electricity and the problem goes away… but it does cut these climate warriors out of a job and a bully pulpit.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

We can worry about climate change later.

quote:

And forget about the climate.

We have ZERO effect on it.

Been changing since millions of years.

This thinking is the ultimate trajectory of the climate science deniers. It's the bottom line. It's the undercurrent/undertow of all humanity.

Just imagine - in the scope of what MAY be considered one aspect of reality, the above two posts are related to human interactions with one another, fears, aggressions, desires, thought perspectives, all which vary by persons and cultures and nations.

Whereas, climate science, and science in general, for the most part at least, by design and intent, bypasses or goes beyond that. IOW, science (nature of things) is what it is.

Humans invent trouble despite nature.

And ultimately, the trajectory of that alt-reality will defeat the realities of nature and the scientific realities, such as those exposed in the climate science reports.

One thing that strikes me is that if humanity could somehow collectively embrace the realities of nature and our affect on climate change, then there is nothing that can't be solved, including wars, and the preparations thereof, even to the extent of getting rid of nukes.

But nooooo - we have deniers and warmongers to deal with and always will.

If the scientists are right, and I'm sure they are, then it's the climate, and nature itself, which will render the world as no safe place. All man's throws and fits and wars, as a consequence of the stress upon stress of it all WILL combine, and the deniers will ultimately get us all killed, and the children too.

The suffering, meanwhile, will exponentiate, no matter how many weapons, nukes, and opposing folks we kill off.

The OP premise is NOT the answer. It is the problem.

Mankind just needs to sit around a large campfire, hold hands, and sing “kumbaya”. Then we can live in harmony with Mother Nature and all will be right with the world. Oops, that’s right, a damn campfire produces CO2. Nevermind…….

quote:

Originally posted by Capt.Purvis:
How do you think it is going to work out for young Americans when they yell out that they need their safe space when Chinese troops have them surrounded. It is a scary time to have draft age kids. We have to act now on manufacturing weapons, chips and oil. We can worry about climate change later.
My family has done well in this country, and I believe in capitalism. There are not many places with this kind of opportunities. My wife's grandfather is still alive and WWII vet. He fought in France and Germany. He kept saying at Sunday dinner this week that it takes a unified nation to win a war.

I understand your concerns, but I believe everything is, "there"
Already in place.

As for manufacturing, technology and energy, it's done. We recently have been a net exporter of oil, the brains of the entire technology industry is in the USA, and America is the largest and best arms distributor. The AK does not stack up to the AR or new Sig, our planes are peerless, our ships the same. Nobody on this earth has a comparable war machine.

As for the soldiers and the Americans that make up them, we have and I believe will continue to unify when the need dictates. All our recent conflicts have been horribly executed to the point of foreseeable obvious failure. From Vietnam thru today, the sense of urgency, the sense of desperation hasn't been there for the Americans and parents of the Americans asked to pickup a gun.

As for worrying about climate change, we do need to protect the homeland. America needs to see to the preservation of it's water, soil, rangeland, seas, timber. If the water ain't clean we can't drink it. If the grass and forage ain't clean the livestock and deer can't eat it. America needs healthy fisheries, vibrant forests, fresh air. Ain't no corn or wheat growing in poisoned fields and farms. I say a hard no to crop failure due to drought, a famine due to a livestock failure caused by poisoned livestock forage. Ive mentioned before, we are so bass akwards that today instead of grazers paying to feed their herds and manage forests on public lands, we now let wildfires ravage and destroy public lands while occasionally paying grazers to bring their herds to forage.

I say it's all there, it's all just right there except for the attitude.

I recently read a book, written by one Martin Williams, titled, "When the Sahara Was Green". An easily understandable read, it looks at the history of the Sahara desert and the effects of climate fluctuations over the last few million years. An interesting book which also looks at the extent to which man affects the climate. He does acknowledge, at no time in the past have we seen the effect that 8 billion people, with the aid of technology, can have. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

I say it's all there, it's all just right there except for the attitude.

Exactly.

More bullets never solves the deeper problem. Sure, it solves the existential threat. The Japanese emperor cult threat was resolved by two nukes. The Nazis problem was resolved by total domination at enormous cost of lives.

What we have now is an attitude problem.

No problems are solved by creating alt-narratives, theories, scapegoats such as blacks, Mexicans, Islamicist, liberals, environmentalists, agnostics, etc.

But Nazis are still harassing us, and cults are still a threat. (the second coming?)

It's a never-ending contest.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
[
Mankind just needs to sit around a large campfire, hold hands, and sing “kumbaya”. Then we can live in harmony with Mother Nature and all will be right with the world. Oops, that’s right, a damn campfire produces CO2. Nevermind…….

I would sit around a campfire anytime with you, with the attitude that I would enjoy it, and the company, and that you are a decent person.

How could that go wrong?

I doubt that you would suggest that we hold hands and sing “kumbaya”, but if you did, I would just smile and make my own suggestions, nicely.

I agree with the Production of abundant cheap and clean electricity and then we can talk about cutting fossils
Without that, there is no solution, just rhetorics and politicization

The captain is correct. Doubt that China plans total global rule and you better get you kids and grandkids the mandarin version of Babbel for Christmas.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The captain is correct. Doubt that China plans total global rule and you better get you kids and grandkids the mandarin version of Babbel for Christmas.

Nothing new either.

https://www.newyorker.com/news...d-a-chinese-spy-ring


Grizz

The Taiwan thing is a concern.

Amount of low orbiting satellites they have and continue to launch is also a concern. China is conducting a space launch every five days and plans on having 13,000 low orbit satellites in the next three years. I did not know that there are over 300,000 Chinese college students here in the US. Education needs to be available to everyone, but at some point we have to recognize them as a threat and limit how we share our technology. It can not be a coincidence that we have had such a increase in young Chinese males trying to cross the borders. Many expect that we will have to implement conscription in the next year.

quote:

Originally posted by Capt.Purvis:
I did not know that there are over 300,000 Chinese college students here in the US.

https://www.scmp.com/news/chin...ite-bilateral-unease

China sends more students to US universities than any other nation, survey finds, despite bilateral unease

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/1...hinese-students.html

America Should Open Its Arms to Chinese Students
Nov. 17, 2022

What's with this "safe space" bullshit. None of us ever had a "safe space" growing up. We went into the world and made our "space." My "space" wasn't safe by any stretch for a number of years. Pretty "safe" now, but not entirely. Boy, I'd like a totally "safe space."

But now, we have the armed forces saying they want a "safe space" for transgender recruits? People who join the Armed Forces reject any concept of a "safe place." It's in the job description.

And agree on China. It's not if we'll fight them, it's when. And I don't want troops wanting a "safe space" doing it.

quote:

People who join the Armed Forces reject any concept of a "safe place." It's in the job description.

Also within the concept of "Safe Space", or not safe:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...e914ab13947b40&ei=63

Politicians are right about the ‘decline of the west’ – but so wrong about the causes
Opinion by Owen Jones • Yesterday 1:00 AM

That article^^^is long on complaint and short on solution. It does make some valid points however.

Donald Trump had it right waging finnancial war on China.

Bring back American manufacturing, mining, etc etc.

IMO, DJT didn't get anything right.

There is no need to wage financial WAR especially on China.

Given incentives, all the stuff we buy made in China, or Mexico, etc. could be made here.

I don't fully understand why it is what it is, but price of labor has to be one factor, which ends up in the market price. But it's not lack of technical skills, technology, or want for jobs that's the problem.

It's gotten to where lots and lots of stuff is made in China. Most of it is good or at least adequate. China is a manufacturing monster. Try buying a lithium iron phosphate battery made anywhere but China, for example.

IMO, if we could and had a choice to buy nothing made in China, first we would have to just do without lots of stuff. Second it would cost at least 33% more, and likely not any better quality.

I too would rather all stuff we need and use be made here in the USA, knowing some fellow American was gainfully employed doing it. But all I can do is bitch about it.

One thing for certain, I will never advocate another Trump-like who claims he can fix it. Maybe such a bigly talking demagogue can, maybe (probably) not, but the collateral damage is so great it's not worth the price of putting up with him.

IMO, while the signs they talk about exist, the causes they are attributing them to are BS.

Historically economic insecurity is the norm. We have more economic security than ever before… but economic security doesn’t give purpose. Staying alive with responsibilities is a purpose.

Suicide increases can be caused by both lack of purpose and lack of possibility.

The whole modern concept of you can be anything if… is a large part of our problem there.

While I agree we need to bring more back home, how?

We tried protectionism and it didn’t work.

Funny enough, the left wants “good paying jobs” while ignoring basic supply and demand and continually allows more folks in, causing a depression of labor value, all the while telling the least productive how they deserve more.

OTOH, Trump’s “economic war” with the east was something fully Trumpian.

Something that obviously has some need but incited without logic, without a plan, without evaluation of effectiveness, without buy in, and totally ineffective.

If the Chicoms released Covid on us, wouldn’t this be a justification to do so in their minds?

To use the Putin example the right uses with Biden…

Trump was playing checkers to Xi’s chess.

Here's something:

https://www.google.com/search?...gAQE&sclient=gws-wiz

https://www.bloomberg.com/news...-in-russia#xj4y7vzkg

https://www.google.com/search?...sclient=gws-wiz-serp

quote:

OTOH, Trump’s “economic war” with the east was something fully Trumpian.

Something that obviously has some need but incited without logic, without a plan, without evaluation of effectiveness, without buy in, and totally ineffective.

I doubt corporate America will ever buy in…short a war with China unless…

…significantly financially incentivized by tax cuts — another Trump thing.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/mone...be3c49c97a8922&ei=70

The US is pushing China to a 'red line' and companies that do business in the country need to come up with a 'plan B,' Yale economist says
Story by jsor@insider.com (Jennifer Sor) • 7h ago