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The Gun Writer ATF raids endangering the lives of innocent Americans, again ATF learned nothing from Waco, Ruby Ridge or Fast and Furious fiascos. Jul 19, 2023 by Lee Williams During the 30 years that have passed since ATF’s botched raid in Waco, Texas, which led to the deaths of 82 civilians — including 28 children — and four federal agents, the agency appears to have forgotten that when it picks fights for no reason and uses excessive force, law-abiding Americans pay with their lives. A story published last week — much to everyone’s horror — revealed that the ATF has started raiding again. It will only be a matter of time before another tragedy occurs and more innocent lives are lost. ATF agents wearing tactical gear and bearing AR-15s raided the Oklahoma home of Russell Fincher, a 52-year-old high school history teacher, “kitchen table” gun dealer and Baptist minister. Fincher, it should be noted, invited the ATF into his home when they called him prior to their raid. He offered no resistance, as you’d expect from a clergyman, but ATF agents hit his home like he was Southeast Oklahoma’s next bin Laden. Anyone who has ever taken doors that were defended by more than a cooperative pastor and his terrified 13-year-old boy realizes that this is serious business. Raids rely upon surprise, speed and violence of action — not exactly the tactics that were needed at Fincher’s modest Tuskahoma home. The ATF isn’t the only federal agency to cowboy up and start raiding. The Biden-Harris administration recently weaponized the IRS too, turning it into another well-armed paramilitary force, which like ATF answers only to the president. The two agencies have even started raiding together. Last month, a joint IRS/ATF tactical team raided Highwood Creek Outfitters in Great Falls, Montana. ATF agents were prohibited from seizing the gun shop’s 4473s, so the IRS agents took them. They seized thousands of the forms, which prompted Montana Attorney General Austin Knudsen to express concern over the seizure, asking “What the hell does the IRS need with 4473s?” By now he likely realizes they were all handed over to the ATF. Thankfully, no one was killed or wounded during the raid, but how long can that last? A history of violence ATF’s own history shows a complete disdain for the sanctity of human life. In addition to the scores of lives lost at Waco, a Deputy U.S. Marshal and Randy Weaver’s wife and son were killed during ATF’s Ruby Ridge fiasco. Their “Fast and Furious” scheme resulted in the death of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and hundreds of Mexican nationals, who were killed by the weapons ATF allowed to “walk” straight into the hands of the Mexican drug cartels. Sadly, the agency appears to have learned nothing from these deaths. Both David Koresh and Randy Weaver visited nearby towns frequently. A local deputy could have easily and safely arrested either man without incident, but when the ATF gears up and dons its tactical blinders, they lose sight of simpler and safer enforcement options. Suspects who are innocent until proven guilty become the “enemy,” and thus deserving of a tactical response. Many had hoped the Waco deaths taught the ATF a lesson and that we’d seen the last of their excessive uses of force, but last month’s raid of Fincher’s home proved nothing has changed. When they gear up, ATF sees law-abiding gun owners as the enemy, thus deserving of the same response they used with Koresh and Weaver. To be clear, Fincher invited the agents to come to his home. A single special agent and a couple of inspectors certainly would have sufficed. There was no need for a SWAT team to swarm Fincher’s home, take him down and handcuff him in front of his 13-year-old boy. The next Waco Raids are inherently dangerous for both law enforcement and civilians. One instance of poor trigger discipline and someone can be killed. That’s why for most professional law enforcement agencies they are the tactic of last resort. Not so at the ATF. To them, we’re all just criminals, so no amount of force is excessive. If the ATF is allowed to continue treating law-abiding gun owners and guns dealers like enemy combatants, it’s only a matter of time before more innocent American lives are lost. The Second Amendment Foundation’s Investigative Journalism Project wouldn’t be possible without you. Click here to make a tax-deductible donation to support pro-gun stories like this. Share The Gun Writer Share The Gun Writer is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. 22 Likes 14 Comments Lvikingr 9 hr ago Liked by Lee Williams Disagree that they learned nothing. They learned they can blatantly lie over and over without consequences. Like (13) Reply 1 reply by Lee Williams Roger J 8 hr ago Liked by Lee Williams At this point, I support a complete dismantling of most Federal LE agencies. We are learning many of them are nothing more than the paramilitary arm of the Democratic Party, just as the SS was the paramilitary arm of the NSDAP. Like (7) Reply 1 reply by Lee Williams 12 more comments… Top New Community BREAKING: UPS cancelling gun dealers’ accounts, destroying packages in transit The shipping giant cites "ghost guns" as the reason for terminations. Jul 1, 2022 • Lee Williams 18 36 Pro-gun sheriff refuses to meet with anti-gun group Sarasota County Sheriff's letter to local Brady Bunch chapter is an instant classic. Mar 12, 2021 • Lee Williams 43 58 Huh? Rob Pincus calls for expanded background checks, gun control and then says he didn't The longtime instructor, author and entrepreneur co-wrote a lengthy column with a former president of The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which… Mar 29, 2021 • Lee Williams 16 28 Ready for more? © 2023 Lee Williams Privacy ∙ Terms ∙ Collection notice Start Writing Get the app Substack is the home for great writing ~Ann   | ||
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Let the criminals go ?????? | |||
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Are they doing the raids in those silent black helicopters that are invisible to radar? Mike | |||
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Well, they certainly did in the fast and furious debacle. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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It’s seems odd to me that so many gun owners seem to relish the thought of licking the boot… Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Me too, Jason, me too.  ~Ann | |||
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Me three! To have an FFL means serious background checks and no criminal record????? These are some of our "cleanest" citizens????? The ATF is A rogue agency. | |||
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Trumpies think all federal agencies are rogue. They're coming for YOU! | |||
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Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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This story lacks context. My bet is that I have been through more ATF audits than any other of the posters on this thread. They do not bring the SWAT team typically, or the IRS. It makes me wonder what Mr. Fincher was engaged in besides the occasional gun show sale. Kitchen table dealers have been outlawed since the Clinton administration, in order to obtain an FFL you need to be engaged in business. Where is Paul Harvey when you need him with the rest of the story? | |||
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Seems like every alphabet agency in the US is turning themselves into a paramilitary outfit. | |||
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. . . only if you listen to the MAGAggots. Mike | |||
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Did you miss this part?
He sounds nefarious to you? ~Ann | |||
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It sounds like there is much more to the story. Did you miss my comment about kitchen table dealers being outlawed years ago? Where is the rest of the story? | |||
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You're certainly welcome to do further research otherwise we will all have to wait and see what trumped up charges they place on this man. Apparently you also missed this one:
~Ann | |||
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You like to make it like Hollywood! In practically most of these case, a couple of officers stopping the one they think is guilty at his work place or just knocking on his door during daytime would suffice. But, no, they have to glorify themselves. | |||
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How many ATF audits have you been through? I have had four. If you try to comply with the law and keep your books up to date, these things do not happen. I find it hilarious that an ex-LEO runs straight to the trumped up charges line. Is that from first hand experience? From my interactions with local, State and Federal authorities I have found that if I am following the law, I rarely have issues. Has your experience on either side of the badge been different than mine? | |||
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Except "these things" are happening.  ~Ann | |||
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Likely for a reason, which we will not know until the rest of the story comes out. Why do you assume trumped up charges are involved? Has that been your experience? It has not been mine. | |||
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I have to agree with skb. There is more going on than what we have for a story at this time. He may have even been "swatted" or in this case "ATFed" | |||
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I’ve been told by my friends who have FFL’s that the ATF has become more difficult to deal with lately, and the agents themselves are apologetic about it, but they are getting pressure from above. For instance, the law is if you wait 3 days and the background check isn’t back, you can release the gun… but if it comes back as do not proceed after that, some directive is saying that the dealer is responsible for getting the gun back. Thus, at least around here, it seems that dealers are not releasing guns after the 3 day period, but waiting regardless of what the law says. It used to be that minor paperwork errors were not treated as being a major problem (like a signature missing or in the wrong place) but now with Biden’s “zero tolerance” folks are losing their licenses over it (supposedly). As to the kitchen table dealers, what’s the issue… as long as they comply with all of the requirements (keeping the records and doing the instant check)? I don’t think the majority of ATF guys are a problem… but the political bosses can be, and frankly in government there is a lot of use it or lose it, and thus if they have a SWAT type unit, they try and keep it busy. One of the points the LE protests make that I agree with is the overuse of the high risk stuff. I don’t see the need for police with full auto weapons. I do agree we are militarizing law enforcement too much. I agree that cops have a very hard job, but the answer isn’t more us vs them and paramilitary behavior in the name of “officer safety.” | |||
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The issue is that the ATF has ruled you must be engaged in business to obtain an FFL other than a collector license. When you have an FFL you cannot pick and choose which rules apply to you. I am required to post a flyer on youth handgun safety and I do so. I do not even handle handguns, I do not work on or sell them, yet I am still required to post the flyer so I do. Plenty of the rules make zero sense, I want to keep my license so I walk the line. It is how the system works so I comply. Most of the people who run in to issues with the ATF see themselves as a Sinatra, wanting to go through life doing things their way. All fine and well but not so much if you want to keep your FFL. | |||
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The issue is the GCA created FFLs for the purpose of dealing/selling firearms. “Table Top” FFLs were using the FFL to amass private collections, and not conduct selling. The big issue is the law is clear, an FFL, minus curio and relic which is a type of FFL crested by the GCA, are not for collecting, but dealing. Here is a secret, “Table Top” or “ Home FFLs” are not per day banned. One does have to demonstrate sales. During President Obama’s term, the ATF began to scrutinize folks selling firearms (engaged in commerce” but did not have FFLs as s means to enforce background checks. When I say scrutinize, I mean prosecute as not complying with being an FFL under the GCA. There is no magic number of transactions that separates a hobbyist with someone who is “engaged in commerce” who must comply with the GCA. Compliance in this context being to have obtained an FFL, log, security requirements, and preform checks. The issue is based on totally of the circumstances, snd very fact specific. Here is another secret. Let us say you have a home FFL. Your residency is the place of business. You have to declare that in your application. You, just gave the ATF to conduct a warrantless entry into your home. | |||
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Don't y'all think your assumptions that the guy did something wrong are just that- assumptions? And, even if he didn't have something like a handgun safety poster displayed does that warrant being tackled, shackled and hauled away by ATF agents? Jeeze. ~Ann | |||
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I think the ATF is tasked with the investigation into wrong doing. The response maybe appropriate. I do not know. We do not have enough facts. I know the FFL work for has never been so raided. We keep good logs. The rules get followed. He even desks w explosives. Why are you assuming the ATF has acted inappropriately? | |||
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How do you know it was about something as trivial as not displaying a handgun safety poster? It is you that has been doing the assuming since the start of this thread. Myself and several others have pointed out that all the facts are yet to be seen by the public and when they are released we will then have enough information to decide if the force used was warranted or not. Stop taking everything you read on far right websites as fact and try a bit of critical thinking. Tough for a sheep but give it a go, you might like it. | |||
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Using your own reasoning, how do you know he did something so wrong, he needed to be treated like a barricaded gunman? ~Ann | |||
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Difference is, unlike you, he is prepared to give law enforcement the benefit of the doubt. You on the other hand view anything law enforcement does as being suspect and ripe material for conspiracy theories. Mike | |||
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I have asked Ann several times what experiences she has had on either side of the badge that would maker her assume law enforcement was in the wrong but she refuses to answer my question. One would think a former LEO would back the blue, apparently not. I would like to see all the facts before deciding who may have been in the wrong on this one. | |||
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I think you should all recognize that the ATF agents you meet at your place of business or those conducting audits, IOIs - Industry Operations Inspectors - are an entirely different arm and perform entirely different functions than the enforcement agents in the ATF. One must work for three years in the ATF before eligibility to join the SRTs - Special Response Team, which is the enforcement arm of the ATF. Here's what their training consists of: "...they learn specialized skills such as marksmanship, manipulation of numerous weapon systems, individual and team tactical movement, tactical medicine, chemical agent deployment, use of less-lethal weapon systems, armored vehicle operations, surveillance, helicopter operations and operational planning. SRTs also participate in rigorous activities such as defensive tactics, breaching, rappelling, fast-roping, rural patrolling and operations." "They work an average of 200 missions per year to bring violent offenders to justice." The ATF has an annual budget of $1.2 Billion The ATF has 2500 Special Agents but just 816 I.O.I.s Now, where do you think their focus as an organization is going to lie? Not so much in the helping Ma and Pop gun dealer stay in compliance I think. I agree, there is likely more to this story and maybe we will find out in the end or maybe not. | |||
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The SWAT team and the IRS are not part of a typical audit, anyone who has an FFL and has had an audit knows this. We simply do not have all the information on this story. Maybe the ATF over reacted, maybe not. | |||
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Excellent post! | |||
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I have no interest in backing federal agencies after seeing how they operated in my time as a LEO. They are just like every life long politician out there. You would know this if you have been engaged with any ops that included them but you haven't so your comments are nothing more than speculation. ~Ann | |||
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Similarly, since you have not been through an ATF audit, your comments on the matter are nothing more than speculation. | |||
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I do not know why you keep wanting to argue with me about this? YOU brought up my experience of being a LEO and I told you of my perception in dealing with FEDS. No thanks! All I dealt with were unprofessional. No, I am not a gun dealer so WHY would I have gone through an audit? WTF is wrong with you? I have done nothing to attack you or your business yet you can't seem to help but being a prick over things that are in fact happening because I post them. You don't like anything I say no matter what. I post articles I did not write but they show what people are experiencing out there and you get your panties in a twist over me? Pretty sick. ~Ann | |||
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Always the victim Ann. Using your "logic" if you can call it that, I'm not a LEO so WHY would I be involved with OP's with the FEDS? You post articles that show only one side of the story, when called out on it you whine like a toddler. That is pretty sick. WTF is wrong with you? | |||
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If you find another side to the article, post it. How hard is that? ~Ann | |||
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I am waiting for all the information to be released before passing judgement. It is called making an informed decision. Try it sometime, you might like it. | |||
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My original post was simply the article. I passed no judgement. That was you. ~Ann | |||
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Are you really that delusional? You have been saying since the start of this thread that the conduct of the ATF was outrageous, now you are withholding judgement? Alternative facts I suppose..... | |||
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