I have been sent Facebook messages I cannot confirm that Isreal’s Cabinet has taken to the sky.
This is the first time Iran has attacked Isreal directly.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/live-blog/rcna147477

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/ne...ard-israel-idf-says/

Not good.

Jordan has opened its airspace to Israeli and American planes to shoot them down.

God I'm sooooo glad the adults are back in charge.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
God I'm sooooo glad the adults are back in charge.

Me too, Trump would surrender to Iran like he did the Taliban and Putin.

We have never given Isreal direct military support in what 5 wars.

Jordan given Isreal and the U.S. air access to shoot down these drones is comforting the ME as a whole is not lost to Isreal as a state.


I think this does not escalate.

It would take Iran mobilizing an army to strike Isreal or tactical nuclear strike to get the U.S. to commit boots on the ground. Such actions by Iran would cause other ME nations to mobilize against Iran.

I just pray the above does not happen. The above being Iran mobilizing to conquer Isreal or some kind of tactical nuke.

Bottom line is Israel and Iran are now in a state of war. And the US has now shot down dozens of missles and drones. We are involved at least in some small measure…..

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Bottom line is Israel and Iran are now in a state of war. And the US has now shot down dozens of missles and drones. We are involved at least in some small measure…..

Looks like the RAF flying out of Cyprus lent a hand as well.

A complete failure by the US to deter Iran. Neither Trump nor our current senile leader did anything but encourage Iran and anyone else to do as they will.

You can’t deter a madman. The Ayatollah is a madman . Ask Neville Chamberlain. We’re involved, the only thing to be determined is how deeply.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
Not good.

Occupying a country and kicking its inhabitants out to be replaced by illegal immigrants never is!

Occupied Palestine will NEVER be forgotten.

The Palestinians are paying for Europe's pogroms against the Jews.

America has been financing the elimination of the Palestinians, encouraging the non stop crimes against humanity!

You lot in America are never shown the atrocities NitanHitler and his goons have been committing ever since Balfour has given Palestine to them.

It will NEVER end until Palestinians have their own country back!

Blame madmen as much as you like.

Don't waste time remembering America's endless crimes against humanity because of their senseless invasions and destructions.

Getting their sorry arse handed to them no stop!

Sort yourselves out!

Trump or Biden?

Or Kamala!

Why doesn’t UAE take in the Palestinians? You have plenty of open desert where you can place them, then support them with welfare?? The obvious answer is NO Arab country wants the Palestinians. They are the bastards at an Arab family reunion. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, SA, UAE, NOBODY WANTS THE PALESTINIANS! Israel isn’t going anywhere and the sooner the Arab world realizes that, the sooner a solution will be put forward. A 2 state solution would be ideal but neither Israel or Hamas will ever accept it. A pox on both their houses.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
You can’t deter a madman. The Ayatollah is a madman . Ask Neville Chamberlain. We’re involved, the only thing to be determined is how deeply.

I would say Chamberlain gets the award for not reading the room.

Nobody in the Middle East wants the Palestinians. But American progressives, will meet them on top of any skyscraper to be willingly thrown off. Maybe we can reach a deal where everyone is happy?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
Not good.

Occupying a country and kicking its inhabitants out to be replaced by illegal immigrants never is!

Occupied Palestine will NEVER be forgotten.

The Palestinians are paying for Europe's pogroms against the Jews.

America has been financing the elimination of the Palestinians, encouraging the non stop crimes against humanity!

You lot in America are never shown the atrocities NitanHitler and his goons have been committing ever since Balfour has given Palestine to them.

It will NEVER end until Palestinians have their own country back!

Blame madmen as much as you like.

Don't waste time remembering America's endless crimes against humanity because of their senseless invasions and destructions.

Getting their sorry arse handed to them no stop!

Sort yourselves out!

Trump or Biden?

Or Kamala!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...by%20Iron%20Age%20II.

11th century BCE.

Huh.

And I see there's Gaza still in it's little strip all that time ago. From this map I'm looking forward to Israel reclaiming a bit more of its homeland from the invaders.

quote:

It will NEVER end until Palestinians have their own country back!

When will Arabs get it through their skulls that the Israelis aren't going anywhere?

This "attack" was kabuki theater, Iran launched a bunch of stuff to save face but made sure practically all of it was knocked down with minimal damage so Israel wouldn't be forced to massively retaliate.

I wonder how many days were spent getting the choreography just right...

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Why doesn’t UAE take in the Palestinians? You have plenty of open desert where you can place them, then support them with welfare?? The obvious answer is NO Arab country wants the Palestinians. They are the bastards at an Arab family reunion. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, SA, UAE, NOBODY WANTS THE PALESTINIANS! Israel isn’t going anywhere and the sooner the Arab world realizes that, the sooner a solution will be put forward. A 2 state solution would be ideal but neither Israel or Hamas will ever accept it. A pox on both their houses.

Why don't you take all the refugees from South America?

What an utterly stupid question!

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

It will NEVER end until Palestinians have their own country back!

When will Arabs get it through their skulls that the Israelis aren't going anywhere?

When the New Nazis occupying Palestine will get it that the Palestinians are not going anywhere!

What does one expect from illegal immigrants who have ethnically cleansed America!

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Why doesn’t UAE take in the Palestinians? You have plenty of open desert where you can place them, then support them with welfare?? The obvious answer is NO Arab country wants the Palestinians. They are the bastards at an Arab family reunion. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, SA, UAE, NOBODY WANTS THE PALESTINIANS! Israel isn’t going anywhere and the sooner the Arab world realizes that, the sooner a solution will be put forward. A 2 state solution would be ideal but neither Israel or Hamas will ever accept it. A pox on both their houses.

Why should Palestinians be accommodated anywhere else other than their land? Why did not the US take in all the Jewish people and create a separate state for them? After all the US had/still has a lot of empty spaces? This kind of logic takes the problem nowhere.
Let them have their individual states and be done with them. As you said, they would not let it happen and so the strife goes on. We all pay for this one way or another.

Who has escalated this situation..? Israel.. Why attack the iranian consulate in Damacus..totally unneccesary and with little gain...foolish..

Bibi is trying to get the focus awaay from Gaza me thinks..

quote:

Originally posted by Pondoro:
Who has escalated this situation..? Israel.. Why attack the iranian consulate in Damacus..totally unneccesary and with little gain...foolish..

Bibi is trying to get the focus awaay from Gaza me thinks..

Here's why:

The New York Times reported that an anonymous source from the Revolutionary Guards said that the strike targeted a meeting between Iranian intelligence officials and Palestinian militants, including leaders of Palestinian Islamic Jihad, who were discussing the war in Gaza.

I have no issue w Isreal’s attack.

Iran has sent its receipt.

Let it end here.

That per the news here, Jordan, The UK, France, and the US all along with Israel managed to stop 99% of the missles and drones is telling.

I think Jeffive is right that it was Kabuki theater in the Iranians had to do something, and pretty much declared that they considered this their retaliation and they think things are even (at least publicly) shows that they felt they had been backed into a corner to do "something" and they did what minimally they felt they had to because on national pride.

They obviously telegraphed what they were doing, and forces were able to be on site from multiple international powers along with getting an agreement from Jordan regarding it.

I hope it calms down now, and I certainly know that we can remove any ability for Iran to affect other nations in relatively short order if we need to badly enough, so I feel no great need to prove it to them.

At least that's a few hundred less drones which Russia can send against Ukraine.

Very good sign that Jordan participated in the defence operation.

quote:

Originally posted by RobinOLocksley:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Why doesn’t UAE take in the Palestinians? You have plenty of open desert where you can place them, then support them with welfare?? The obvious answer is NO Arab country wants the Palestinians. They are the bastards at an Arab family reunion. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, SA, UAE, NOBODY WANTS THE PALESTINIANS! Israel isn’t going anywhere and the sooner the Arab world realizes that, the sooner a solution will be put forward. A 2 state solution would be ideal but neither Israel or Hamas will ever accept it. A pox on both their houses.

Why should Palestinians be accommodated anywhere else other than their land? Why did not the US take in all the Jewish people and create a separate state for them? After all the US had/still has a lot of empty spaces? This kind of logic takes the problem nowhere.
Let them have their individual states and be done with them. As you said, they would not let it happen and so the strife goes on. We all pay for this one way or another.

The US is open to any Jewish immigrant, visitor, refugee. Not an issue, yes we do have some anti semitism and it's horrible, but Jews are welcome in our homes and neighborhood, welcome to build schools and places of worship. So American hospitality isn't an issue. You know of course Jews have made Israel their home for centuries before The Balfour thing, so what is this reason you have for ejecting them this time?

The Palestinians can still have their historical homeland of Gaza.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
That per the news here, Jordan, The UK, France, and the US all along with Israel managed to stop 99% of the missles and drones is telling.

I think Jeffive is right that it was Kabuki theater in the Iranians had to do something, and pretty much declared that they considered this their retaliation and they think things are even (at least publicly) shows that they felt they had been backed into a corner to do "something" and they did what minimally they felt they had to because on national pride.

They obviously telegraphed what they were doing, and forces were able to be on site from multiple international powers along with getting an agreement from Jordan regarding it.

I hope it calms down now, and I certainly know that we can remove any ability for Iran to affect other nations in relatively short order if we need to badly enough, so I feel no great need to prove it to them.

And that coalition (add Saudi Arabia), and the opening of Jordanian airspace, was put together by Joe Biden.

50 years of experience and knowing ALL the players goes a long way.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
That per the news here, Jordan, The UK, France, and the US all along with Israel managed to stop 99% of the missles and drones is telling.

I think Jeffive is right that it was Kabuki theater in the Iranians had to do something, and pretty much declared that they considered this their retaliation and they think things are even (at least publicly) shows that they felt they had been backed into a corner to do "something" and they did what minimally they felt they had to because on national pride.

They obviously telegraphed what they were doing, and forces were able to be on site from multiple international powers along with getting an agreement from Jordan regarding it.

I hope it calms down now, and I certainly know that we can remove any ability for Iran to affect other nations in relatively short order if we need to badly enough, so I feel no great need to prove it to them.

I agree. The problem is that Netanyahu is going to respond in some way and that is going to escalate things.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
That per the news here, Jordan, The UK, France, and the US all along with Israel managed to stop 99% of the missles and drones is telling.

I think Jeffive is right that it was Kabuki theater in the Iranians had to do something, and pretty much declared that they considered this their retaliation and they think things are even (at least publicly) shows that they felt they had been backed into a corner to do "something" and they did what minimally they felt they had to because on national pride.

They obviously telegraphed what they were doing, and forces were able to be on site from multiple international powers along with getting an agreement from Jordan regarding it.

I hope it calms down now, and I certainly know that we can remove any ability for Iran to affect other nations in relatively short order if we need to badly enough, so I feel no great need to prove it to them.

I agree. The problem is that Netanyahu is going to respond in some way and that is going to escalate things.

Biden reportedly told him "Take the win."

If he escalates there will be a price, especially with a military aid package about to hit the House floor.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
That per the news here, Jordan, The UK, France, and the US all along with Israel managed to stop 99% of the missles and drones is telling.

I think Jeffive is right that it was Kabuki theater in the Iranians had to do something, and pretty much declared that they considered this their retaliation and they think things are even (at least publicly) shows that they felt they had been backed into a corner to do "something" and they did what minimally they felt they had to because on national pride.

They obviously telegraphed what they were doing, and forces were able to be on site from multiple international powers along with getting an agreement from Jordan regarding it.

I hope it calms down now, and I certainly know that we can remove any ability for Iran to affect other nations in relatively short order if we need to badly enough, so I feel no great need to prove it to them.

I agree. The problem is that Netanyahu is going to respond in some way and that is going to escalate things.

Biden reportedly told him "Take the win."

If he escalates there will be a price, especially with a military aid package about to hit the House floor.

Biden has also been telling him a whole bunch of things about Gaza which he has completely ignored.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
That per the news here, Jordan, The UK, France, and the US all along with Israel managed to stop 99% of the missles and drones is telling.

I think Jeffive is right that it was Kabuki theater in the Iranians had to do something, and pretty much declared that they considered this their retaliation and they think things are even (at least publicly) shows that they felt they had been backed into a corner to do "something" and they did what minimally they felt they had to because on national pride.

They obviously telegraphed what they were doing, and forces were able to be on site from multiple international powers along with getting an agreement from Jordan regarding it.

I hope it calms down now, and I certainly know that we can remove any ability for Iran to affect other nations in relatively short order if we need to badly enough, so I feel no great need to prove it to them.

I agree. The problem is that Netanyahu is going to respond in some way and that is going to escalate things.

Biden reportedly told him "Take the win."

If he escalates there will be a price, especially with a military aid package about to hit the House floor.

Biden has also been telling him a whole bunch of things about Gaza which he has completely ignored.

Link

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
At least that's a few hundred less drones which Russia can send against Ukraine.

Very good sign that Jordan participated in the defence operation.

I'm guessing that Iran learned some operational details about Israeli missile defense that might be useful another time. Bibi can wear the big namba awhile longer, and maybe stay out of jail indefinitely. Too bad about the Iranian generals, they violated a gentleman's agreement and paid the price.

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
At least that's a few hundred less drones which Russia can send against Ukraine.

Very good sign that Jordan participated in the defence operation.

I'm guessing that Iran learned some operational details about Israeli missile defense that might be useful another time. Bibi can wear the big namba awhile longer, and maybe stay out of jail indefinitely. Too bad about the Irania generals, they violated a gentleman's agreement and paid the price.

They mainly learned that 5th gen fighters can fuck up all their shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by RobinOLocksley:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Why doesn’t UAE take in the Palestinians? You have plenty of open desert where you can place them, then support them with welfare?? The obvious answer is NO Arab country wants the Palestinians. They are the bastards at an Arab family reunion. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, SA, UAE, NOBODY WANTS THE PALESTINIANS! Israel isn’t going anywhere and the sooner the Arab world realizes that, the sooner a solution will be put forward. A 2 state solution would be ideal but neither Israel or Hamas will ever accept it. A pox on both their houses.

Why should Palestinians be accommodated anywhere else other than their land? Why did not the US take in all the Jewish people and create a separate state for them? After all the US had/still has a lot of empty spaces? This kind of logic takes the problem nowhere.
Let them have their individual states and be done with them. As you said, they would not let it happen and so the strife goes on. We all pay for this one way or another.

The US is open to any Jewish immigrant, visitor, refugee. Not an issue, yes we do have some anti semitism and it's horrible, but Jews are welcome in our homes and neighborhood, welcome to build schools and places of worship. So American hospitality isn't an issue. You know of course Jews have made Israel their home for centuries before The Balfour thing, so what is this reason you have for ejecting them this time?

The Palestinians can still have their historical homeland of Gaza.

Would you let the creation of an independent state within the US because you extended your 'hospitality' resulting in the expulsion of those who lived before them? Or reducing them to second class inhabitants? Did anyone say anything about the Jews who historically lived along with the Palestinians not having the right to live there? Did I say eject Jews from Palestine or what is now Israel? Did I say anything about the right of Isarel to exist? I very clearly said that the Two-State solution is the ideal path to peace in that place. The fanatics on both the sides would not let that happen. Netanyahu openly advocated funding Hamas as a tool to prevent the formation of the Palestinian state. If you do not believe me, all you need to do is Google that. You can read that from major Israeli news outlets. He, and his fundamentalist coalition partners, still drags that place into further conflict with his ever-expanding appetite for strife and the desire to cling onto power. Your elected President tells him publicly not to escalate this conflict and he promptly ignores every single public and private request. This is even after the US sends its navy and armaments to protect Israel. He would come to the US Congress and thumbs his nose at your President and the Republican congressmen jump up and down applauding him. Christian fundamentalists think that it is okay because they believe it is all part of the plan. National pride and security be damned. Do you ever think that you are getting played in a war that is not yours? There are excellent books written by reputed inter national relations experts. The book by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt is one. Do get hold of a copy.

The Mullahs in Iran on their part keep funding the Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists to perpetrate their atrocities against innocent civilians and keep the conflict festering. They do not want peace. They want the total destruction of Israel even if that results in the destruction of Palestinians and their own people.

Anyone who takes the side of either parties unquestioningly is a pawn of propaganda.

quote:

Originally posted by RobinOLocksley:
Anyone who takes the side of either parties unquestioningly is a pawn of propaganda.

No shit...one outstanding hell-of-a-mess among godawful hell-of-a-messes...

The "two state" solution worked well enough for Native Americans and Quakers but the model was flawed and did not scale well.

While I must say that generally speaking I tend to lean in the direction of supporting Israel in matters involving foreign affairs, I think we (the US) sometimes allow our predilection to support Israel cloud our judgment. It seems that in so many matters, Americans want to see everything as "black" or "white". Nuances are lost on us. Then when faced with facts or information that call our initial assessment into question, we just double down on that assessment to make us feel better about our initial judgment. The situation in Gaza has gone on far too long, retribution has been extracted exponentially and sadly the efforts have simply created a whole new generation of Palestinians dedicated to the destruction of Israel. It is a self-defeating proposition at this point.

quote:

The situation in Gaza has gone on far too long, retribution has been extracted exponentially and sadly the efforts have simply created a whole new generation of Palestinians dedicated to the destruction of Israel. It is a self-defeating proposition at this point.

That^^^is exactly what is wrong with our foreign policy. We never finish what we start because Americans don't really have the stomach of conflict.

"...retribution has been extracted..."

Really!? That^^^is what the Gaza Conflict is about to you???

The Israelis should and I hope will stay in Gaza until every Hamas fighter is dead. And if they are smart...they should NEVER leave it out of their control where such can reconstitute.

There never was and never will be ANY hope of a 2 state solution. Only one side can prevail.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
That per the news here, Jordan, The UK, France, and the US all along with Israel managed to stop 99% of the missles and drones is telling.

I think Jeffive is right that it was Kabuki theater in the Iranians had to do something, and pretty much declared that they considered this their retaliation and they think things are even (at least publicly) shows that they felt they had been backed into a corner to do "something" and they did what minimally they felt they had to because on national pride.

They obviously telegraphed what they were doing, and forces were able to be on site from multiple international powers along with getting an agreement from Jordan regarding it.

I hope it calms down now, and I certainly know that we can remove any ability for Iran to affect other nations in relatively short order if we need to badly enough, so I feel no great need to prove it to them.

I agree. The problem is that Netanyahu is going to respond in some way and that is going to escalate things.

Biden reportedly told him "Take the win."

If he escalates there will be a price, especially with a military aid package about to hit the House floor.

Biden has also been telling him a whole bunch of things about Gaza which he has completely ignored.

Link

Yeah, I saw that reporting but...

https://abcnews.go.com/Politic...n/story?id=108683738

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

The situation in Gaza has gone on far too long, retribution has been extracted exponentially and sadly the efforts have simply created a whole new generation of Palestinians dedicated to the destruction of Israel. It is a self-defeating proposition at this point.

That^^^is exactly what is wrong with our foreign policy. We never finish what we start because Americans don't really have the stomach of conflict.

"...retribution has been extracted..."

Really!? That^^^is what the Gaza Conflict is about to you???

The Israelis should and I hope will stay in Gaza until every Hamas fighter is dead. And if they are smart...they should NEVER leave it out of their control where such can reconstitute.

There never was and never will be ANY hope of a 2 state solution. Only one side can prevail.

. . . he has one conversation with an Israeli kid and he is now an expert on the Middle East. Typical horseshit.

Isreal would not have defended from this strike as well had they alienated Middle East Partners who allowed the use of airspace.

Your whole premise would destroy these relationships, and doom the long term security of Isreal.