She Tweeted:
"The Declaration of Independence was written by enslavers and didn’t recognize Black people as human.

Today is a great day to demand Reparations Now ✊"

If she cared to learn the facts she would know that Jefferson DID have the abolition of slavery (the slave trade anyway) in the original Declaration of Independence.

In the first draft, Jefferson included this against the King:

"he has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating it's most sacred rights of life & liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. this piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the CHRISTIAN king of Great Britain. determined to keep open a market where MEN should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this execrable commerce"

All of the grievances had to be unanimous but Georgia and South Carolina rejected the inclusion regarding the slave trade so it didn't make it into the final Declaration.

Of course, Cori Bush is an idiot, so perhaps I'm expecting too much...

Do you reckon ben and jerrys will give the land their stores are on back to the indians?

Send her back to where she came from!

Perfect solution!

With her size, she might make a good witch doctor's wife!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Send her back to where she came from!

Perfect solution!

With her size, she might make a good witch doctor's wife!

OMG.

Perfect for her here!

Might have to do some work to survive, instead of scrounging off white voters!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Send her back to where she came from!

Perfect solution!

With her size, she might make a good witch doctor's wife!

She is where she came from: Missouri, the "show me"state.
She is a registered nurse, something that isn't given out for a participation trophy.

Having said that, I won't be sending her campaign money...

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Send her back to where she came from!

Perfect solution!

With her size, she might make a good witch doctor's wife!

She is where she came from: Missouri, the "show me"state.
She is a registered nurse, something that isn't given out for a participation trophy.

Having said that, I won't be sending her campaign money...

She doesn’t agree with you.

Instead of being grateful that she lives in America, she is demanding to be paid to live there!

Stupid is as stupid does!

quote:

Instead of being grateful that she lives in America, she is demanding to be paid to live there!

Good grief Saeed, and I say this sincerely, you may have posted the most logical sentence that I have seen in this forum.

Reparations equals money paid by those who never owned slaves to those who were never slaves. Seems fair- NOT!

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Reparations equals money paid by those who never owned slaves to those who were never slaves. Seems fair- NOT!

But but but…

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Instead of being grateful that she lives in America, she is demanding to be paid to live there!

This is a question that I have tried to look at from different perspectives: is American citizenship reparations enough?

The transatlantic slave trade was horrific. I wonder how many African Americans would erase the transatlantic slave trade from history, knowing that doing so would mean that their family line never left Africa?

Who is in a more enviable position: the American whose ancestors who were brought here as slaves, or the African whose ancestors were not trafficked to the Americans?

A very good premise. It ignores one issue that being for decades tge States sought to deny citizenship from Free Man. That until the 1950s, the S. Ct., based on an Originalist interpretation of the Constitution from an 1835 case permitted this.

It also ignores the S. Ct. finding the State of Alabama controlled by the GOP is still using gerrymandering to deny African Americans one man one vote mandate.

There are other examples, but the above cannot be argued.

Again, I do not agree nor support monetary reparations. However, to ignore such as the above only strengthens the hand of those who do advocate monetary reparations.

I say celebrate the 4th, and know we can and must do better. We can argue about what the better is.

Why do we punish a generation who is innocent, to pay a generation who never suffered??

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Instead of being grateful that she lives in America, she is demanding to be paid to live there!

This is a question that I have tried to look at from different perspectives: is American citizenship reparations enough?

The transatlantic slave trade was horrific. I wonder how many African Americans would erase the transatlantic slave trade from history, knowing that doing so would mean that their family line never left Africa?

Who is in a more enviable position: the American whose ancestors who were brought here as slaves, or the African whose ancestors were not trafficked to the Americans?

Jason,
That question was answered 50 years, ago before 0bama scratched the scab off the wound, by the great African American boxer Muhammad Ali. In the early 1970s Muhammad Ali fought for the heavyweight title against George Foreman. The fight was held in the African nation of Zaire; it was insensitively called the “rumble in the jungle.” Ali won the fight, and upon returning to the United States, he was asked by a reporter, “Champ, what did you think of Africa?” Ali replied, “Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat!”

Ali recognized that for all the horror of slavery, it was the transmission belt that brought Africans into the orbit of Western freedom. The slaves were not better off—the boat Ali refers to brought the slaves through a horrific Middle Passage to a life of painful servitude—yet their descendants today, even if they won’t admit it, are better off.

[paraphrased but quoted from several articles on Ali and his statement]

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Instead of being grateful that she lives in America, she is demanding to be paid to live there!

This is a question that I have tried to look at from different perspectives: is American citizenship reparations enough?

The transatlantic slave trade was horrific. I wonder how many African Americans would erase the transatlantic slave trade from history, knowing that doing so would mean that their family line never left Africa?

Who is in a more enviable position: the American whose ancestors who were brought here as slaves, or the African whose ancestors were not trafficked to the Americans?

Do you have any idea how offensive this argument is to African-Americans? You're telling them that they should be grateful that their ancestors were enslaved. Ripped away from their loved ones, put in the holds of stinking ships for weeks on end. Sold like chattel at market upon arrival. Forced to work like dogs for no wages. Raped by their owners.

It's not a position that ought to be advocated.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Instead of being grateful that she lives in America, she is demanding to be paid to live there!

This is a question that I have tried to look at from different perspectives: is American citizenship reparations enough?

The transatlantic slave trade was horrific. I wonder how many African Americans would erase the transatlantic slave trade from history, knowing that doing so would mean that their family line never left Africa?

Who is in a more enviable position: the American whose ancestors who were brought here as slaves, or the African whose ancestors were not trafficked to the Americans?

Do you have any idea how offensive this argument is to African-Americans? You're telling them that they should be grateful that their ancestors were enslaved. Ripped away from their loved ones, put in the holds of stinking ships for weeks on end. Sold like chattel at market upon arrival. Forced to work like dogs for no wages. Raped by their owners.

It's not a position that ought to be advocated.

I didn’t write a word of that. It was all copied and pasted from articles with interviews with Ali. Most all his words.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Instead of being grateful that she lives in America, she is demanding to be paid to live there!

This is a question that I have tried to look at from different perspectives: is American citizenship reparations enough?

The transatlantic slave trade was horrific. I wonder how many African Americans would erase the transatlantic slave trade from history, knowing that doing so would mean that their family line never left Africa?

Who is in a more enviable position: the American whose ancestors who were brought here as slaves, or the African whose ancestors were not trafficked to the Americans?

Do you have any idea how offensive this argument is to African-Americans? You're telling them that they should be grateful that their ancestors were enslaved. Ripped away from their loved ones, put in the holds of stinking ships for weeks on end. Sold like chattel at market upon arrival. Forced to work like dogs for no wages. Raped by their owners.

It's not a position that ought to be advocated.

The truth can be offensive at times. I would say the average African American has more opportunity, a better standard of living and a longer life expectancy than the average sub-saharan African today.

Slavery was a horrible period of time in our history but that does not change the facts on the ground today. Where would you rather try to climb the ladder of life?

For the record…my ancestors who brought the Easter name to the USA…came the same way — as indentured servants…forced to ride and work in the hull of a ship…whipped regularly.

They (4 brothers) escaped once in the USA and hid in the West.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Instead of being grateful that she lives in America, she is demanding to be paid to live there!

This is a question that I have tried to look at from different perspectives: is American citizenship reparations enough?

The transatlantic slave trade was horrific. I wonder how many African Americans would erase the transatlantic slave trade from history, knowing that doing so would mean that their family line never left Africa?

Who is in a more enviable position: the American whose ancestors who were brought here as slaves, or the African whose ancestors were not trafficked to the Americans?

Do you have any idea how offensive this argument is to African-Americans? You're telling them that they should be grateful that their ancestors were enslaved. Ripped away from their loved ones, put in the holds of stinking ships for weeks on end. Sold like chattel at market upon arrival. Forced to work like dogs for no wages. Raped by their owners.

It's not a position that ought to be advocated.

The truth can be offensive at times. I would say the average African American has more opportunity, a better standard of living and a longer life expectancy than the average sub-saharan African today.

Slavery was a horrible period of time in our history but that does not change the facts on the ground today. Where would you rather try to climb the ladder of life?

So, should the Jews be told they ought to be grateful that Hitler killed 6,000,000 of them since it resulted in them getting a country?

I'm sure that fact has not been lost on many Israeli citizens. Not that the Holocaust should be celebrated, but I believe many fully understand they would not be citizens of Israel otherwise.

Speaking of those left behind, why are the blacks who hunted opposing tribes and sold them to slave traders not at least a culpable as the whites who purchased them?

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
I'm sure that fact has not been lost on many Israeli citizens. Not that the Holocaust should be celebrated, but I believe many fully understand they would not be citizens of Israel otherwise.

Speaking of those left behind, why are the blacks who hunted opposing tribes and sold them to slave traders not at least a culpable as the whites who purchased them?

Who says they're not? Spreading the blame around doesn't absolve anybody.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
I'm sure that fact has not been lost on many Israeli citizens. Not that the Holocaust should be celebrated, but I believe many fully understand they would not be citizens of Israel otherwise.

Speaking of those left behind, why are the blacks who hunted opposing tribes and sold them to slave traders not at least a culpable as the whites who purchased them?

Who says they're not? Spreading the blame around doesn't absolve anybody.

True enough, but does blame really solve anything? Remember the past, do not repeat the same mistakes but blaming people who were not even born for the sins of their predecessors is not the right answer in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
I'm sure that fact has not been lost on many Israeli citizens. Not that the Holocaust should be celebrated, but I believe many fully understand they would not be citizens of Israel otherwise.

Speaking of those left behind, why are the blacks who hunted opposing tribes and sold them to slave traders not at least a culpable as the whites who purchased them?

Who says they're not? Spreading the blame around doesn't absolve anybody.

True enough, but does blame really solve anything? Remember the past, do not repeat the same mistakes but blaming people who were not even born for the sins of their predecessors is not the right answer in my opinion.

Yeah, just to circle back and so it's clear: as I have stated here many times, I don't support the idea of reparations. It's ridiculous and it is never going to happen. I don't understand why people keep talking about it.

That said, taking the position that reparations shouldn't be paid because African-Americans should be grateful that they were enslaved because they now get to live in America is offensive. The fact that some atrocity eventually resulted in some positive event, condition or occurrence doesn't excuse or validate the atrocity.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Reparations equals money paid by those who never owned slaves to those who were never slaves. Seems fair- NOT!

...and how many of them would go back to their point of ethnic origin if offered a free one way plane ticket.

It seems the only legitimate beef anyone can have is with their current location or nationality, none of them having personal been slaves.

Some may have lived through some pretty unpleasant times though, and there would be plenty to beef about there.

In essence then, the atrocity should simply be put to rest. It happened, it is over, none of the perpetrators are now living. The argument being made that descendants of slaves are better off is no less truthful for being offensive. This is said, not to validate slavery, but to invalidate the concept of reparations due.
Essentially, we, people of European or Celtic background, are being assigned blame, whether or not such blame is justified. None of my ancestors were slave owners; yet I am judged guilty, by the advocates of reparations, simply because of my racial background. This is offensive to me Regards, Bill

The whole point of bringing up past crimes of generations gone by is just plain silly.

Not a single one of us can trace his roots to pure life.

All this is doing is putting a wedge between people because of the color of their skins.

Reminds me of the silly notion of diversity!

Somehow, people seem to forget the Chinese and Indians.

Who together make about 30% of the world’s population!

So do we make sure that in any organization 30% should be Chines and Indians!

This is Greta’s logic!

A bloody blonde Bimbo!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
I'm sure that fact has not been lost on many Israeli citizens. Not that the Holocaust should be celebrated, but I believe many fully understand they would not be citizens of Israel otherwise.

Speaking of those left behind, why are the blacks who hunted opposing tribes and sold them to slave traders not at least a culpable as the whites who purchased them?

Who says they're not? Spreading the blame around doesn't absolve anybody.

True enough, but does blame really solve anything? Remember the past, do not repeat the same mistakes but blaming people who were not even born for the sins of their predecessors is not the right answer in my opinion.

Yeah, just to circle back and so it's clear: as I have stated here many times, I don't support the idea of reparations. It's ridiculous and it is never going to happen. I don't understand why people keep talking about it.

That said, taking the position that reparations shouldn't be paid because African-Americans should be grateful that they were enslaved because they now get to live in America is offensive. The fact that some atrocity eventually resulted in some positive event, condition or occurrence doesn't excuse or validate the atrocity.

You should have told that to the black man who stated it.

The Jews were once slaves of the Egyptians. Should we demand that Egypt pay reparations to Israel? The list goes on and on. It is in the past. Let it go.

I guess Israel should let go of the fact a handful of Islamic Nation States have safe harbor to Nazis, and engaged in 2 wars to eliminate them.

It is all in the past.

That is why people today vote for folks who tell them the Holocaust did not happen. Folks who should know better want to forget and ignore.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
For the record…my ancestors who brought the Easter name to the USA…came the same way — as indentured servants…forced to ride and work in the hull of a ship…whipped regularly.

They (4 brothers) escaped once in the USA and hid in the West.

Fur the record, indentured servants were not by law Chattel.

Indentured Servants were not bred and their children sold on farms once the Cross Atlantic Slave Trade.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
For the record…my ancestors who brought the Easter name to the USA…came the same way — as indentured servants…forced to ride and work in the hull of a ship…whipped regularly.

They (4 brothers) escaped once in the USA and hid in the West.

Fur the record, indentured servants were not by law Chattel.

Indentured Servants were not bred and their children sold on farms once the Cross Atlantic Slave Trade.

Indentures were sold, traded, starved, beaten, and raped without legal recourse.

As the story goes, my ancestors were traded with an indenture contract by the estate owner where their parents worked against the parents (mother anyway…father was thought to have owed the estate owner) will to a ship captain for goods.

They were to work the ship as slaves for 6 years.

The brothers were ~12-15 in age. They ran from an eastern seaboard port 2-3 years in and headed west. Two made it to north central Texas and went on to thrive. Two were were killed along the way.

The two killed were hung by law enforcement in Spanish Fort, TX right on the TX/OK border.

They were hung for stealing horses.

When they went across the Indian Territory (OK now), they made a trade for some horses with indian traders. Apparently 2 of the horses had been stolen off a ranch in Texas (Comanches were still raiding commonly at the time). The boys had no way of knowing and had no bills-of-sale and thus were tried and hung unjustly.

Lots of injustices in history.

No matter what you say, you cannot make servitude into Chattel Slavery.

You know it.

Again, indentured servants were not forced to breed with their children becoming property.

The people here with common sense get the point.

I aim no posts towards you. You are a lost cause.

You are lost.

The people w common sense understand that indentured servitude is not the same footing as being a Chattel Slave.

You know who else was beaten labor before Progressives, whose champion was President Theodore Roosevelt, started to put an end to it through government.

You did not refute my basic example as to why the institution la are not the same. This is because you can’t do it.

Also, you know how indentured servitude was different than chattel slavery? One ended. The other you weee born in it and died in it. One being freed at the Grace of from Chattel Slavery did not allow one citizenship.

Hi, and let us not forget we ended Indentured Servitude wo a region fighting to preserve it.

Indentured Servitude was not dependent upon race or culture. There were Scottish, Irish, and English indentured.

Indentured Serenity were permitted to obtain property independently which was the qualification to exercise voting rights upon end of the term. Chattel sleeves could not.

I will not allow you to come here and lie.

Your cause was lost in 1864; really 1862. I am glad it was.

Go support another insurrection.

Gay people are not abominations. You are.

Your secondary cause to permit the mistreatment and differential treatment of those different than you, and limit their political influence is on going.

^ What a childish idiot.....



.

Tell me anything I wrote about Chattel Slavery v Indentured Servitude was wrong.

What racists, homophobic bigots.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
For the record…my ancestors who brought the Easter name to the USA…came the same way — as indentured servants…forced to ride and work in the hull of a ship…whipped regularly.

They (4 brothers) escaped once in the USA and hid in the West.

Fur the record, indentured servants were not by law Chattel.

Indentured Servants were not bred and their children sold on farms once the Cross Atlantic Slave Trade.

Indentures were sold, traded, starved, beaten, and raped without legal recourse.

As the story goes, my ancestors were traded with an indenture contract by the estate owner where their parents worked against the parents (mother anyway…father was thought to have owed the estate owner) will to a ship captain for goods.

They were to work the ship as slaves for 6 years.

The brothers were ~12-15 in age. They ran from an eastern seaboard port 2-3 years in and headed west. Two made it to north central Texas and went on to thrive. Two were were killed along the way.

The two killed were hung by law enforcement in Spanish Fort, TX right on the TX/OK border.

They were hung for stealing horses.

When they went across the Indian Territory (OK now), they made a trade for some horses with indian traders. Apparently 2 of the horses had been stolen off a ranch in Texas (Comanches were still raiding commonly at the time). The boys had no way of knowing and had no bills-of-sale and thus were tried and hung unjustly.

Lots of injustices in history.

Every once in a while, you just go completely off the tracks and land out in the weeds.

Comparing your family history to slavery is nonsensical. The two things are different.

quote:

The two things are different.

So
When the transferee has absolutely no say in the matter-
being "sold" (indentured) by your family or feudal lord or overlord
rather than being captured by another "tribe" or entity?

The result IS somehow remarkably different to you?

Truly a convoluted situational "ethics" manner of "thinking"--
then again, we should expect such from a barrister.