Has anyone ever made bullets using once fired brass as the jacket? I am thinking about using a cast bullet pressed into a piece of 45 acp brass then pushed through a .458 sizer die. If it is accurate enough, then I will make a large batch. My biggest concern is the jacket falling off after it leaves the barrel and getting stuck inside the silencer on my 458 socom. The next round could destroy the silencer if it blocked the bore. Is this a good idea? Crazy? Here is a picture of the bullet and loaded cartridge.



Thanks.

Ranb

I think it would take a hell of a press the bases are thick.

What is the total weight? Could be a neat way to launch big boolits.

Don't know why it wouldn't work. I haven't done it, but a friend of mine makes bullets for his 470 Nitro by annealing 45 acp cases pushing them through a ring die and then inserting a .458 diameter cast bullet and crimps it in some how. Looks just like yours, the lead never touches the bore.

The ones shown in my pic were made with a Lyman mold cast with wheelweights. The .458 bullet was 535 grains before trimming down the part that seats into the brass to .440. .72" of the slug fits into the brass. The total weight is 590 grains and 1.53" long.

I used an RCBS 50 BMG press and Lee 458 bullet sizer to make the bullet the right diameter. The exposed lead merely rides the lands. It takes lots of lube and plently of force on the press handle to get the job down.

I have no means of crimping the bullet into the 45 acp case, so until the bullet is crimped into the 458 socom case with the collet crimp die, the lead core can be pulled out with my fingers.

Ranb

Take the silencer off when test firing may help in letting you know if there is a issue. I would place a large peace of card board close by and watch to see if there is more then one hole Or take some Knox gelatin and make up a huge batch, using something like a 5 gal pal as a mold. Line them up and see how they react.

Mr. Corbin, Dave has a book, "Rediscover Swaging #9, (I think) posted on his web site, corbins.com or swage.com, for review, download, study, sans pictures. He covers this at some length. His brother, Richard is in the same line of work at rceco.com and has parts of his book on his web site.

Real common. .22's from rimfire cases most common. .223 makes good .375 jackets. As said, you need a good press. If the jacket is "point formed" over the lead, less chance of separation. Bonding the lead to the case/jacket (solder with flux) also works. More effort.

Not real likely with the pressures under the bullet that it will come apart. You are right to be concerned... Experiment carefully. Luck.

I saw this same idea mentioned in the American Rifleman about 45 years ago. The guy was using .303 British berdan brass cut to a convenient length and poured full of molten lead. His intention was to swage the nose shape in the lead filled case and shoot them in a .458.
Many drawing show the .303 cartridge to be .460 on the base. The cases actually measure about .452. I suspect his article was largely a daydream.
If you use .45 ACP brass for this you might want to anneal the cases so they will be easier to swage. I had considered the same thing for .40 S&W for a smaller bore that I do not own.
I wish they were .410 on the base.

Just measured 30-30 cases at .412 ahead of the rime. They would be just right to cut off to length and remove the rim. Flux the inside and pour full of molten solder. Swage the bullet to the correct nose for use in a .40-65 or a .405 Win. A little work and nearly free jacketed bullets after the cost of a die or two.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Just measured 30-30 cases at .412 ahead of the rime. They would be just right to cut off to length and remove the rim. Flux the inside and pour full of molten solder. Swage the bullet to the correct nose for use in a .40-65 or a .405 Win. A little work and nearly free jacketed bullets after the cost of a die or two.

Ja - except that 45 ACP brass costs more than some bullets and solder is pretty toxic ...

Addendum:

To summarize Mr. Corbin... YOU MUST anneal THE BRASS. Unless you have the heaviest dies and presses--hydraulic presses, you will break your equipment on un-annealled brass. Light pink. Propane torch is fine. Drop in water. Soft! Soft! Soft!.

Then, however you plan to "nose form" again, unless you have the heaviest equipment, you probably want to use only pure lead. A cast bullet, "hard cast" will probably break anything else.

Well cleaned inside, the brass, which is largely copper, can be fluxed with about any solder flux and the lead should stick. Carbon from firing and or slag from heating will about guarantee no soldering/bonding. Must be removed.

In brief, this is a very valid option but it involves WORK. Pounding a buckshot into a case with a mallet and punch and resize by pounding thru some die... will get you groups about as accurate as your methods deserve... As a war time option to recycle berdan cases or the like, possible. For 10 or 20 shots... compare the work and those expensive bullets start to look cheap... Your sweat. Happy trails...

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Just measured 30-30 cases at .412 ahead of the rime. They would be just right to cut off to length and remove the rim. Flux the inside and pour full of molten solder. Swage the bullet to the correct nose for use in a .40-65 or a .405 Win. A little work and nearly free jacketed bullets after the cost of a die or two.

Ja - except that 45 ACP brass costs more than some bullets and solder is pretty toxic ...

Mac you need to brush up on solder a little.
Common solder is not very toxic or half the planet would be poisoned.
.45 ACP brass that is range pickup is free. So are 45 ACP cases that are used up.

I tried shooting the bullets I made with the cast lead and 45 auto case. They were more accurate than the cast (I am having keyholing problems), but had a higher stdev than anything else. I think it is due to the varying lengths of the bullets after I run them through the sizing die.

This experiment is going on the back burner for now. I will pick it back up if I can not get the cast bullets to work well on their own. Thanks for the tips.

Ranb

The bullet looks a little long for a SOCOM, assuming you have the normal 1-14" twist. Keyholing backs that up. I would be more worried about excessive yaw taking out the silencer.

There used to be a commercial kit you could buy to do this...guy out of Arizona.

I wrote to him just before he went out of business...never heard back.

I think you softened/annealed the 45 ACP brass, and then formed the jacked over a mandrel, after which it was filled with molten lead.

I'll look through some of my reloading stuff from the 70's and see what I can find.

Garrett

When I was a poor Army LT, I used to make .375 bullets from cut down .223 brass; swaged an ogive onto the brass in my Rock Chucker in a die I made with a reamer I made, and filled it with lead. Actually shot pretty well, and expanded a little, but I was using wheel weights for the core. Then I got promoted and was able to afford actual store bought bullets! But I am thinking of trying it again to make .410 400 grainers.

I have a friend up in Graham Texas that has been experimenting with this sort of thing for his 45-70. He has had some pretty good results.

I will get some information from him on his procedures and try to get some pictures also.

.30US carbine brass would make some wonderfull .333 cal bullets for .333Jeffery.

Hello,
If it was me, I would try 40S&W or 10mm brass.
Have you tried resizing .458 bullets down?
Lots of heavy sizes there.

Just a thought.

John

I finally decided to try swaging some bullets using a variety of reloading dies and molds I happen to have on hand.
Ultimately, I would like to make a .458" using 45ACP brass without trimming.
This is my first try at this, and I don't have my ejector dialed in yet so the tips are a little knarfed up.
The lead slug is 365gr from a paper patch mold, sized to .451", placed nose first into the annealed ACP case and pressed in using a 38spl die. Any smallbore die would work fine but I happened to have the 38 die in the press as I was first trying to press the core in base first. The die helps keep the core straight by riding on the ogive of the cast bullet/core but the square base of the core was blowing out the lower part of the brass. I figured that having the ogive at the bottom of the ACP brass not only eases the core insertion but doesn't enlarge the base either.

After pressing in the core, I pushed the brass up into an 8mm Mauser fls die as my first step in the squeeze down holding the 45 case in a shell holder.
Second step is to size it with a 243Win die also with the case in the shell hoder. The first two sizing steps were easy to do using my Spartan press with not much pressure. I think any press can do this.
My greatest worry was pulling off the rim but that did not happen.

Then I pressed the case up into the 243Win. fls die to form the shoulder on the lead tip using a .451" Lee push through ram in my Rockchucker and tapping the finished bullet out from the top with a pin and mallet.
I had annealed the brass with a propane torch to a nice orange glow so they are pretty soft but I used the Rockchucker just in case I needed the extra oomph, but the Spartan could have done it easily.
Using the 243 die, most of the case is sized under .458" but the rim is .458" and the base tapers from there.
I think lapping out the 243 die would be a good idea to make more of the final bullet .458" and then final sizing through a push through die. As it is, it would be something of a bore-riding bullet so who knows if it would work at all. At least the front half or so of the bullet won't engrave in the rifling, but the back half will and at least the exposed lead won't contact the barrel so leading shouldn't be an issue.
The core was 365gr and the final weight is 448gr but the ACP brass I had on hand was deprimed so a primed case may make it right at 450gr or so.






For giggles, I loaded one into a .458 Win Mag case as a dummy round.
The bullet ends up tapered so there is no worry about the core coming out.

Since quite a lot of time and work has to be done anyway, why not cut of the extractor rim from ACP-case?

Better looks, a nice bevel to guide it during seating and probably even more good things.

I don't have a lathe.
I do, however, use my case chamfer tool to take the square corner off if the rim as an effort to help the bullet get a good start in the case.

Here are the results.
I am just stuffed that the bullets didn't keyhole and my experiment seems to have some merit!
Here are the details as they are.
Ruger No.1 in 458 Lott
54grs IMR4198 with backer rod filler. Four shot group at 50yds open sights.
I am pretty pleased with these results and will mount a scope and try some longer ranges.
So far, these perform as good as any factory or cast bullets I have used in this rifle and bet would make short work of a deer or elk.

I just load 45 ACP cases as the projectile in my .475 Linebaugh, makes a hell of a hollow point.

Here is a step by step pictorial of how I do it.
fyi, I use case lube at each sizing step but I bet just about any lube would work.


Annealed case (tumbled after annealing) and the cast core


The core firmly pressed into the 45ACP case


Pressing all the way into the 8X57 die. See the brass is starting to get some taper.






Now, pressing up into the 243 die with a Lee push through ram.




Tap out of the 243 die with a pin and small hammer.



Now...drumroll please...
The finished bullet!

http://castboolits.gunloads.co...hread.php?183522-500

http://castboolits.gunloads.co...st-by-far-and-cheap!

I see you posted over there as well, so maybe you already know about this...

jpl, I do go over to CB quite a bit. By far the most information on this kind of stuff is on that forum.
Some day I may get a genuine swaging press and some of BTSniper's dies, but for now I am thrilled with what I can do using what I have on hand.
You can make beautiful bullets with the right equipment as you have done there.

Well done!

I love creativity.

Ok, so how do you make that skivving die??? That's pretty good! While reading this thread I just thought of a little touch of flux in a case, pour molten lead in to fill to the top, then re-heat with a torch to re-melt and ensure a good bond an run into a swage/pointing die to extrude excess lead out and point up. I've never made bullets though and that may not work??

Huvious, I like your style.

I load just the 45 ACP cases in my .475 Linebaugh as hollow point projectiles.

jpl

Those are some gorgeous looking bullets.

Steve......

I have an idea for some time to stretch up a part of .45 ACP case, fill it up with lead and some flux, heat it up to make the bond, cool down and size through die. Result could be bullet for .500 S&W. I am talking about something like this:



What do you think about that idea?

Jiri

I think you would be happier with bumping up the entire length of the 45 case.
There are a few easy ways to do this - if you have access to a lathe.
BTSniper over on castboolits make dies that make beautiful.500 bullets from 45ACP but they are a bit spendy.