The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Bullet Making What Other Material Is Suitable For Making Bullets?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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This is true if performance is measured by only the ability to penetrate. | |||
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Thread resurrection. Quoting me on brass for FN solids instead of copper. OK, Gerard, you got me on that one. Your copper FN with flat-nose is shorter and more stable for weight, and the larger resulting FN after impact imparts more trauma, while penetrating more than enough. Brass only edges it out on one parameter: By a few inches of extra depth of penetration, to be expended on trees beyond, which the GSC FN will usually do anyway, with a wider wound channel in the trees beyond also. I have verified this using cape buffalo and umbrella thorn trees in Botswana. That was with .416/380gr GSC FN at +2500 fps MV in .416 Rigby.  Also compared in the IWBB: .395/340gr GSC FN at just under 2800 fps (copper) vs. .395/330gr S&H FN at just over 2800 fps (brass) both using same powder charge, about same momentum for each. 100" long IWBB with 10 compartments, each compartment 10" deep, containing 9" of water in thin, flat-sided plastic buckets, and two half-inch plywood boards. Gutted carcass of Iron WaterBoard Buffalo, used for bullet interrogation:  The necropsy details showing depth of penetration: GSC copper FN:  S&H brass FN:  Recovered solids, GSC copper FN and S&H brass FN:  | |||
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The first smokeless cartridge in the world, the 8x51MM Lebel in the second configuration, used a lathe turned bullet made of brass "Balle D". They made these by the millions and millions. Each bullet was marked by the maker on it's base. They shot very well. My test on 5/8" cold rolled steel plate at 500 meters was very impressive.Many went through the plate when fired out of the full length rifle. While we don't like the French as a people, they did and do make some very interesting and well thought out weapons. They have set many a first in the field of small arms. Gulf of Tonkin Yacht Club NRA Endowment Member President NM MILSURPS | |||
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Zinc is supposed to make nice cast bullets. I have seen several articles about casting Zinc bullets over the years. I won't use it because I do not want to contaminate the Lead supply. | |||
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Zinc is prone to cracking because it is so brittle and it corrodes quicker than most other metals. Speer, Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon have reliable reloading data. You won't find it on so and so's web page. | |||
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I'm having a bit of crs at the moment, but the gentleman from Denver shot a then cast bullet record group at 200yds that measured about .750" in the 1890's with a Pope breech-muzzleloading rifle. He had a cottonwood (iirc) chunk that was about 4 feet in diameter set up as a backstop with the target(s) attached and cast his bullets out of pure gold. Need;ess to say, they carefully sectioned and burnt that chunk at the conclusion of the shooting. | |||
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Zinc has to be very pure or it is subject to intergranular corrosion. When it corrodes internally it will literally crumble.
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The vanished photo returned to the post above: Iron WaterBoard Buffalo interrogations of a copper .395-cal/340-gr FN solid by GSC and a brass .395-cal/330-gr FN solid by S&H: Both entered torture with same momentum of +/- 2800 fps MV. | |||
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Lots of DU in Iraq, somebody just left it laying around everywhere. Just send Walter up with a couple of bushel baskets. Might want to wear a mask while machining it. Bullets would be very heavy for caliber. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Just a bit more thread necromancy to address a few points. As for silver, aside from it's expense, if you complain of "copper fouling" now wait until you try relatively pure silver, there are distinct reasons why Brazing alloys contain silver.... as for osmium, palladium and the other "platinum metals" (Iridium, palladium or rhodium) they are inconveniently hard...in addition to being as expensive, if not more expensive than gold... Gold would be ideal except for it's expense... I was once asked the ideal material to make a high temperature gasket in a reactant turbo-pump my instant answer was commercially pure (99.9%) gold as it as soft enough to be formable and had a high enough melting point, and no brittle temperature.. meaning it could tolerate cryogenic temps as well as 1800F Oh and BTW there is a scientific quibble: while Osmium is generally considered the densest element the difference in density between Osmium and Iridium is less than the margin of error for measurement. If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Whatever you have and whatever works ! I read an interesting article about searching a battle zone in Mexico .They found Copper cannon balls !! Spain went into Mexico for the silver. Silver is often found with copper .They removed the copper and looking for a use for copper , they made cannon balls !!  | |||
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Corinthian bronze contains Silver AND Gold
The Spanish actually had problem smelting silver ore from some mines because the silver source they were trying to exploit lacked copper, which their smelting technique requires. SO they had to actually had to import copper to extract the silver from some mines! If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Jubal Sackett mentioned using silver on occasion. The Lone Ranger used it all the time. | |||
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BUT, as I pointed out earlier If you think copper fouling is a problem Wait until you try to shoot and modest amount of Silver bullets. Silver is a more reactive metal and Sticks to nearly Everything, why do you think brazing alloys contain silver? If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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I don't think Jubal or the Ranger were too worried about it. | |||
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You seem knowledgeable. I have a question: When folks anneal cartridge cases they heat them up then quench them. Every other metal that I am aware of, even non-ferrous metals like lead, are HARDENED by quenching. Why does brass soften with quenching? | |||
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I heard it is difficult to fill out the mold. I've found fishing weights cast from zinc and they are always poorly filled-out. People make zinc weights for snagging spoonbills. I find them at low-water below the dam. | |||
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It doesn't. Brass softens when brought to just on the point of colour change to dull red. Quenching has no effect whatsoever on the annealing process, it is just used to stop transfer of heat further up the case towards the head. Some don't quench and just let the case naturally cool or stand the case in a stream of cool air. | |||
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What is wrong with bronze? I mean something like CuSn5Pb20? Why are not bullets made from this? Jiri | |||
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Lead is used in steel , brass and bronze to form a " free machining grade " and appears as small spheres which cause the metal to break easily when machining. These grades are used when maximum physical properties are not needed since the lead particles reduce those properties . | |||
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