Hmm... Maybe bullets are like operating systems, the only good ones are those you make yourself...

I think maybe I need to sink further down into the reloading quagmire . Therefore, I have a few questions about bullet swaging.

1) How good bullets can you make? Both from an accuracy and terminal ballistics performance.

2) What equipment do you need to get going? Cost?

3) Any good web references?

4) What time does one spend to make, say... 100... SP bullets in .30 with awesome accuracy, reliable big-game terminal ballistics, and world-class exterior ballistics ?

Regards,
/HerrBerg

HerrBerg
I swage pistol bullets occasionally, 45 acp. 45 Colt, 357. I use Corbin's basegard system since I found out knurling bullets is a real boar/bore.
I know several fellows who swage their own bullets for bench rest shooting, 6mm. They can put most all their bullets in the same hole all day long, everytime.
From what I've seen of these fellows as they make their bullets, hospital ORs are filthy by comparison, imagine a clinical anal retenitive on Ritlin. Focused does not describe these fellows.
Everything is done exactly the same everytime, including the time the core is in the die being swaged to size and weight, the same goes for the time the core is swaged into the jacket. The jackets are weighed, the bullets like wise.
The cores are washed after swaging to size, to remove the lube so that there's none left when the core is seated in the jacket.
Dave Corbin has written 5 or 6 books on the subject.
Jim

HerrBerg: I bet writing one's own operating system is not cost effective either, but it may be most satisfying. Sorry to say it is probably not cost effective to swage a 'world class' most accurate nor most terminally effective bullet either. A lot of technically savvy people, with capital to invest, make some pretty sophisticated commercial bullets. The point is, it is not a trivial effort or expense to do so. But this is not to say a dedicated person can not exceed their efforts and if they manage to do so, and they can, it is pretty technically satisfying too. How do you think the commercial folks got to where they are?
Good web resources are: RCE and Corbin , search the web for others.
I would not approach swaging with an eye to economy unless one is contemplating some exotic calibers where commercial swaggers charge multiple dollars per bullet, however I would say it is a most satisfying way to explore what is possible in ways that commercial folks can not justify. Justify this pastime with fun and one can produce what none others can. Don't get me wrong, one can produce cheep too, if one uses range pick up cartridge case for jackets and range scrap lead for the cores then bullets can be made cost free as far as material cost. It does depend on how one wants to amortize the cost of equipment and one's time.

Well, looking at the prices for the equipment, I'm fully aware that I could buy a lifetime's supply of premium bullets.

But the problem is that there is a "treehugger's party" in Sweden with some 5% votes and in a political... conspiracy... a lead ban was traded for political support in another area.

So, from 2006 we either swage our own bullets, or we smuggle them. Or we use Lapua or BX lead-free bullets. I thought the swaging issue should be considered somewhat.

But doesn't anyone have answers to question 2 and 4 above?

Regards,
/HerrBerg

HerrBerg please check out this link.
http://www.corbins.com/

There may be others but I have some familiarity with this one.

As you already know, making your own jacketed bullets is not the most cost effective way to go. But in your case with the ban on lead bullets this may not be true.

At any rate, it's a fun hobby in itself and not hard to do at all. Nor does it really take a lot of equipment. Corbin will try to sell a lot more than you need. All that is really required is a good strong press. An RCBS Rock Chucker, for example, should do nicely. In fact, the RCBS Jr. would probably work ok.

Then all you need are the forming dies and some jacket cups. I don't know if you can get lead wire or not. I used a lead core mould and cast all my bullet cores. This adds certain advantages for the bullet maker, but also adds some extra time and steps.

Still, as I say, it's fun and satisfying. I can't imagine that build excellent .30 cal bullets would be difficult for you. In fact you could probably sell your handiwork to other bullet starved citizens....and then whenever you get tired or making bullets, sell the equipment for about what you have in it.

You WON'T need the cannarule tool etc. Like I say, be careful of all the crap Corbin will try to peddle in the deal.

Ask more if I can help.

HerrBerg
Depending on the caliber you wish to swage bullets for..............
You may wish to come up with some bullet molds and cast your own. Start scrounging lead now and you may be able to lay in a lifetime supply.
Keep in mind that it's citizen's obligation and duty to ignor and subvert all unjust, stupid, silly, moronic laws.
Jim

Arkypete,
I had no intention of following that law. Coming to think of it, I cannot recall it even crossed my mind

Pecos45,
thanks! This is yet just at the elaboration stage, but it was actually your "rocket shape" thread that made me think of this... I'll keep you informed if, or rather when, I move forward in this. Living a life without ever killing a moose with a handcrafted bullet seems like such a waste....

Regards,
/HerrBerg

Herrberg - I predict great success for you. Do you have a source for lead? Luckily for swagged bullets the softer lead works the best and this is usually more available than harder alloys. Most any form of plumbing lead is very soft.

I think you'll have fun with this project.

Tire shops have to pay to get rid of their lead, so that'll be no problems.

But, Pecos, if you would assemble a kit for me, what would it look like? I have a RockChucker press today I use for reloading and tire weight lead in abundance. A good start, maybe? Calibre would be .30 and .224 to start with, but possibly 7mm also.

Regards,
/HerrBerg

Berg - I'll get back to you on this with a shopping list.

HerrBerg
The Rockchucker won't do the job. Get Corbin's CSP-1 press. This press will handle any swaging job you come up with aa be converted to ammo reloading.
Jim

Herrberg - Check your hotmail account for email.
jim

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HerrBerg:
[QB]Tire shops have to pay to get rid of their lead, so that'll be no problems.

Wheel weights are not suitable for cores, too hard.

Is it possible to fix them in some way? By adding tin or something?

Only way to soften 'em up is to add lots of pure lead. You can sometimes find stuff like lead X-ray shielding sheets, roofing lead, etc. at scrap metal dealers. That stuff's very soft.

Lay wheelweights in anyway. You can't swage them but you can cast them and you can swap them to casters for pure lead.

Any banned material goes drastically up in value. Hoard any lead alloy you can get your hands on and worry about how to use it later.

For pure scrap lead, your best shot is a marine salvage yard if you have one handy.

You can also reduce wheel weights to very close to pure lead in the furnace OR (perhaps somebody can jump in here) with electrical plating technology. Remember, anything is possible if you have the desire, time and money.

Pecos, you ever tried swaging WW for anything big?

I don't claim to know nothing 'bout this stuff, but it seems to me that you could get by with stuff on a .22 core that you could not on .30 cal and bigger. And .458s would be a whole 'nuther story.

�arkypete I swage pistol bullets occasionally, 45 acp. 45 Colt, 357. I use Corbin's basegard system since I found out knurling bullets is a real boar/bore.�

I bought a Corbin swedge press and the dies and core mold to make the 44cal base guard bullets Corbin said was so good. These were suppose to remove the lead as you shoot the gun. I have never shot any bullets that lead the gun so badly in my life. I finally bought another base punch that was flat. This way I can swedge a SWC or RN with a gas check for my muzzleloader. This fits a sabot and is a lot cheaper that buying soft lead bullets. I have learned the hard/expensive way not to believe every thing I read.
Swede44mag

I'm told you need a hefty press to make big or hard bullets. I wonder whether you could fire-form them.

What if you set up a barrel to fire a core of lead or copper into a die? You could start with light charges and work up the forming load until the die filled but did not break. If you wanted to, I guess you could keep going until you discovered the other edge of the safety margin.

H. C.

(I think )

Pecos, I admire your ingenuity and your methods are not that far off the way swaging started.

(Anyone else remember Kipling's "hammered slug from a thirty rupee jeshial"?)

But two things stick out in my memory. One is that when you double the diameter to which a force is to be applied you square the amount of force that must be applied to get the same pressure in psi.

Second is that Ned Roberts recounts a story that H.M. Pope told him about shattering a six inch diameter swaging die while trying to swage bullets from a lead tin alloy MUCH softer than WW.
It's in "The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle" if memory serves.

Herr berg
Would you like a photo of some pistol bullets swaged out of wheel weights?
Jim

I want pictures of ANY bullet swaged, including equipment etc etc etc !

/HerrBerg

LeftOver - I wish I could do some experimenting with the larger calibers but I don't have the equipment. One thing that is EXTREMELY critical with bullet swagging is the lube.

Corbin sells little bottles of "draw die lube" specially made for swagging. It was good but another very odd lubricant I used most often was anhydrous lanolin. Pure unadulterated anhydrous lanolin is the most incredible case and swagging lubricant I ever found. Sells like a goat's butt and works like a dream. Makes your fingers soft while you work with it too. The more I loaded, the softer my hands got.

Pecos
I made my own swaging lube out of lanolin and I think, caster oil, 50/50. You are right the stuff smelled. A small amount lasts forever.
I wonder if the petro derivitives would diesel under the pressures generated by the swaging process.
Jim

[ 11-24-2003, 16:51: Message edited by: arkypete ]

Damn it Atrkypete, no go post them images of wheelweight buillets!!!

Herr Berg
I will get out to the loading shed this evening. I've got to open my business for a short day then come home and bake bread for the local volunteer fireman's Thanksgiving dinner, this evening.
Jim

OK, I'll give you the day off...

HerrBerg
[IMG]http://[url= http://"http://www.hunt101.com/?p=74039&c=556&z=1"] [/url][/IMG]


This particular die is for 45 acp SWC, the stem with the small dimple in the center is for making the Basegard bullet, a copper washer rivited to the base. the loaded ammo is the base gard, tje cast bullet is from the same pot of wheel weight alloy.
Jim

[ 11-25-2003, 16:17: Message edited by: arkypete ]

Pecos, I got what looks to be a lifetime supply of destinked lanolin off Felix from the remains of the big melt. You might check with him to see if he has any more he wants to sell.

"arkypete" I tried the baseguard with pure lead like corbin said it leaded up my 44mag terrible. I didn't know you could do it with wheel-weights doesn't this strain the die a lot? This might be worth checking into since I already have the corbin dies and press.

Swede44mag

Swede44mag
I took Corbin at his word, that I could swage bullets out of wheel weights. I have diluted the wheel weights with pure lead to find out just how much that eased the swaging. It makes the job a good bit easier and when I get going again I'll dilute the wheel weights with 30% pure lead and a bit of tin.
Another thing that's different, my dies are a bit larger in diameter then normal .4525 for the 45acp. I get zero leading in the Colt Gold Cup nor in the S&W mod 25.

If you take a look at the loaded round, to the right of the press, you'll see a bit of a ridge near the center of the case. The bullets in the loaded rounds are the Basegard bullets. With the reduced diameter of the case expander and the increased diameter of the bullet I get line where the bottom of the bullet is.
Jim

[ 11-27-2003, 02:58: Message edited by: arkypete ]

"arkypete" Did you knurl your bullets and then use lube like liquid alox? This is what it looks like from the picture. I bought a base punch that was flat this way I can make bullets with gas-checks on them. I shoot these in my muzzleloader with sabot. I never thought about trying them in my 44mag. My favorite 44mag load is 1000fps with a 240gr Keith style wheel-weight cast bullet. Any pointers you have will be appreciated.

Swede44mag

Swede44mag
When I first got the Corbin press and dies I did the plain base bullets and knurled the bullets using Lee dip lube. They did great but were a pain in the butt to make, knurling is a real bore.
So I got the Basegard setup for my dies which is a quick change of base stem for the original die and have enjoyed the Basegard ever since. Using the plain base dies I've used annealed gas checks with Lee and Corbin dip lube to good effect. I've used the gas checks and knurled the bullets, again they worked great but were a pain in the butt to do.
I used these Basegard bullets in my two 45 acp handguns. I have another set of dies for the various 45 Colts that inhabit my gunsafe. I load those to 900 or 1,000 fps and they do fine. No leading, the accuracy improves over the factory swaged bullets and are more consistantly accurate then my home made cast bullets.
I've not played with 44 swaged bullets as I only have one 44 Special S&W mod 24. This handgun hates me and I've considered taking it to the local priest and having an exorcism done. That's another story.
I do use the Corbin for making 357 bullets. The 130 grain Basegard wadcutters are a accurate. Then I'll switch the nose punch and make SWCs.

Jim

Arky - I'm honestly not trying to rain on your parade, my friend, but the results you are achieving with these pistol bullets are EASILY duplicated by good cast pistol bullets. The cost to go this route would be a small fraction of the cost to do the baseguard thing.

I've shot a few 1,000 .41, 44 & .45 cast bullets in each of these calibers with superb results and accuracy.

But whatever's fun for you. Not everyone gets the casting bug.

Pecos
I agree. The biggest benefit that I found was the uniformity of the swaged bullets, over cast
There's plenty of people who could notice the difference between the uniformity of cast verses swaged, I happen to not be one.
I would not have come to this enlightenment with out having done the experimenting.
Jim