Tungsten has an atomic weight of 183.5 and lead has 207.2 .

Barnes states that their MR-X bullet has a denser than lead tungsten core.

How can that be?

Ok I think I got it. Lead is heavier but tungsten is harder.

Barnes is using the tungsten to add a little weight to shorten the bullet and the tungsten will maintain its shape.


I would have just as soon as seen a 200 TSX with some lead in the rear core to get around 225-240 grain bullet for a long range 300 ultra bullet. It would do good for big bears too IMO.
The 300 ultra I had would shoot a 220 at 3050 and a 240 at 2850.

No, tungsten is denser, and about 30%(IIRC) heavier by volume than lead. I got tripped up by the Periodic Tables too, and asked the same question awhile back. The only thing keeping tungsten from replacing lead is technology and cost. Requires great heat for melting and in powdered form it is difficult to achieve consistant axial balance due to different densities in the compressed matrix. If the technology ever allows it to be processed like lead in bullet production...well, lead will history for modern bullet construction.

ah HA gold and tungsten weigh the same. lead is actually much lighter than gold.

http://www.principalmetals.com/utilities/primecalculator.htm

In a nutshell...The atomic mass of an element is the mass of one mole of a particular element. The density is just the ratio of mass to volume. The density of an element (or any compound for that matter) has more to do with intermolecular forces that that draw and hold atoms together. The stonger the attractive forces, regardless of the atomic mass, the greater the density of a specific element or compound.

Tungsten IIRC is approximately 1.6 times as dense as lead. That gold and tungsten have near the same density is coincidence. Tungsten also has the highest melting point of all elements. Coupled with its high hardness (read difficulty to manufacture = expense)I don't think it will ever really replace lead for small arms components.

Back to the MRX I would also like to see a 200-210 gr. .308 offering as well as a 250 gr. .338. A buck a bullet is definitely a premium but not so much as the old Speer AGS... $4 per. OUCH!

Here is a good reference table for the elements.

Periodic Table

One thing that has yet to be mentioned is that tungsten is much more rare and much more expensive than lead. There are only a few places in the world that mine tungsten and if I recall correctly none of them are in the US. That means the supply could severely tighten with a single overseas incident, revolution, coup or whatever.
Not as easy to work with, more expensive, possibly hard to come by, I would think it will be a limited and expensive alternative. Especially with waterfowling being non-toxic and the shot industry gobbling up huge amounts of tungsten.
Just my 2 cents on the matter.
Joe

Good point Joe. There still is quite a bit of tungsten in Ward, Colorado. But it is cheaper to buy foreign tungsten and import it.

Thanks David, I couldn't remember if there was a tungsten mine in the US or not. No matter what tungsten is not nearly as common or easily obtained as lead and will probably never be as cheap.
Joe

Lead is MUCH easier too work with than tungsten. The price for a box of Speer's African Grand Slams give you an idea about the demand for tungsten and its difficulty to machine.

I don't think tungsten will ever replace lead. Its far too rare compared to lead and if I'm not mistaken much harder, which may not be a good thing in softpoints designed to take antelope, deer elk etc.

So when are we going to get the uranium bullets we are all waiting for? Now there's density. Since they are used on the Navy's anti-missile gatling guns they must be floating around in gun shows, right?

Tungsten has a specific gravity (density) of 19.24
And melts at 3422degC

Lead has a Specific Gravity of 11.34
and melts at a mere 327degC

So the difference in density is considerably greater
than 30%. Lead is 58% as dense as tungsten
Or Tungsten is 172% as dense as lead.
Though sintered tungsten can vary greatly.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
Tungsten has a specific gravity (density) of 19.24
And melts at 3422degC

Lead has a Specific Gravity of 11.34
and melts at a mere 327degC

So the difference in density is considerably greater
than 30%. Lead is 58% as dense as tungsten
Or Tungsten is 172% as dense as lead.
Though sintered tungsten can vary greatly.

AD

And this can be seen when trying to make a powdered tungsten core bullet. As it turns out, the density of the tungsten powder cored bullets I've made are considerably less than 30% greater than lead.

If one could get a core sintered properly, i.e., solid, the core weight could in fact be somewhere around 1.7 times as heavy as lead. Since the tungsten powder used in bullet making is wax coated and has to be "sintered" in the jacket, it comes out between 1.1 and 1.2 times as heavy as lead. Hardly being worth the effort or expense for my use, which is a heavier bullet for a given length.

David

Tungsten is a colossal waste of money for an expendable bullet. Tungsten wire was once used as the impact wire in dot matrix printers. I heated one of the wires to an incandescent white heat with an acetylene torch and it was still brittle when I tried to bend it....it broke though as hot as the torch could get it.
If you want density with limit on cost try osmium which is more dense than uranium or gold.

quote:

Originally posted by jcunclejoe:
Thanks David, I couldn't remember if there was a tungsten mine in the US or not. No matter what tungsten is not nearly as common or easily obtained as lead and will probably never be as cheap.
Joe

Don't know if this is correct or not, but seems I once read that the majority of the U.S. supply of tungsten comes from the PRC. If so, please God, don't let us switch to tungsten as a general material for bullets....

Anyone out there know for sure?

Tungsten is also used in carbide, such as end mills or some router bits. I am not sure if carbide is heavier than lead by volume, but it is extremly hard and already formed in a shaft. A trip to a local machine shop would probley net a few broken carbide tools of varous sizes for very little money.

quote:

So when are we going to get the uranium bullets we are all waiting for?

Ummm ... that would be plutonium? Much dirtier than uranium but no matter - we are trying to kill the beast!

quote:

Originally posted by loren miller:
Tungsten is also used in carbide, such as end mills or some router bits. I am not sure if carbide is heavier than lead by volume, but it is extremly hard and already formed in a shaft. A trip to a local machine shop would probley net a few broken carbide tools of varous sizes for very little money.

Technically Tungsten Carbide is an intermetalic ceramic and when used in cutting tools its bonded with Colbalt. 6% for super hard, fairly fragile tools and 15% or more for impact restisting tool like rock bits.

Plain metalic tungsten isn't all that hard, Ruger used to machine it daily for the 10/22 magnum bolts.

Thanks man, VERY nice sight by the way, and thank you for further info on metalic carbide.
Seems to me carbide end mills might be a bit too hard for what i was thinking of.

Loren,

You will also need a cylindrical grinder and a proper recovery system--ya really don't want to breath carbide dust. Also depending on the shop you go to-----if it is a tool/die/mold shop those guys keep most of their broken tooling to grind into split, half-round and tri edged cutters. Then there is the ever increasing price for scrap carbide$$$$.

Now a broken 1/4 shank ground flat at both ends and plated with Cu and then swaged into a jacket might be interesting.

quote:

...The atomic mass of an element is the mass of one mole of a particular element

David, How many of Avagadro's number of atoms in a mole of W? Wonder how many here understand all that chemistry mumbo-jumbo?