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Martin,

Just wondering if you can make 416 bullets in 210gr and 170gr. This is for a handgun project. Also a 160gr. 375 bullet.

Thank you,

Dan
 
Posts: 62 | Location: Texas | Registered: 16 August 2003Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by bigboredan:
Martin,

Just wondering if you can make 416 bullets in 210gr and 170gr. This is for a handgun project. Also a 160gr. 375 bullet.

Thank you,

Dan



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Posts: 1557 | Location: Home of the original swage | Registered: 29 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Martin, it might be my browser (Firefox) but that sight looks all screwy. Are those prices for 50pc? And what would you recommend jacket-wise for a 300g .358" going about 2750-2800fps? .06"?
 
Posts: 2000 | Location: Beaverton OR | Registered: 19 December 2002Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Martin, it might be my browser (Firefox) but that sight looks all screwy. Are those prices for 50pc? And what would you recommend jacket-wise for a 300g .358" going about 2750-2800fps? .06"?


Try this one
Custom Brass and Bullets


And what would you recommend jacket-wise for a 300g .358" going about 2750-2800fps? .06"

What are you shooting at ? Cape Buffalo Or Elk
Rhino Or GemBok...

For Elk i would just go a 0.040 in a round nose bullet.

For Cape Buffalo i would go 0.065 and plain on hitting somthing hard on impact please.

For Rhino i would go a 0.080 jacket wall in a gilded jacket

For GemBok i would go a 0.020 or thinner .. its always nice to see small game "POP" like a tick when hit lol roflmao.

what type of point/nose/meplat/ogive does or will the bullet have ?. I take we are taking bonded of course.

Unbonded bullets for DG require the jacket to be part of the nose ..Rounded over..so as to not mushroom as much and hold the lead to the jacket.. also putting threads on the inside of the jacket will help hold a unbonded core to jacket..


Martin



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Posts: 1557 | Location: Home of the original swage | Registered: 29 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Sorry, I thought I'd edited the post before it sent.
Elk we're talking. Semi-spitzer, about a .750" nose, .1" front band, maybe .180" meplat. Partition would be ideal, but that's not so ea$y. Expand down to 2200 fps, but not turn inside out.
Sounds like .04" would do what I want?
 
Posts: 2000 | Location: Beaverton OR | Registered: 19 December 2002Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Sorry, I thought I'd edited the post before it sent.
Elk we're talking. Semi-spitzer, about a .750" nose, .1" front band, maybe .180" meplat. Partition would be ideal, but that's not so ea$y. Expand down to 2200 fps, but not turn inside out.
Sounds like .04" would do what I want?


Fine ..Next question ..
What type of a Partition were you looking for ..
by that i mean do you an idea on the lead mix you might want to go for on the bottom half of the partion ? 10-90 15-85 .. or would you rather stay with a pure lead bullet

and were did you want the Partition to start ...?
at half the jackets length or 3/4's of the jacket down ? closer to the top ..
Did you want a small hole in the Partition

Did you want small threads in the back half of the jacket or do you want them at all.

and a spitzer has an ogive not a meplet .that is unless you wanted one with a little flat nose on it ? is that want your talking about ?

quote:
The smooth ogive bullet does not have the step that defines the semi-wadcutter type of bullet. There are three basic ogive styles in the smooth ogive group. These are the secant ogive, the spire point, and the tangent ogive. The tangent ogive can be further broken down into sub-groups such as the round nose, spitzer, and variations of those two types.



quote:
Spitzer bullets have the radius of the ogive specified or called out in calibers of radius. The radius of the ogive would be the diameter of the bullet multiplied by the number of calibers. An example might be a .458 bullet with a four-caliber curve. The ogive would have a radius of four times .458 or 1.832 inches. Long spitzer ogives have proven advantages at long range but can be difficult to get to shoot well in lead bullets. The longer ogive also requires a heavier bullet be used in order to have the bearing and ogive length in balance. Two variations on the spitzer that are useful in lead bullets are the flat tip spitzer and the semi-spitzer. Both of these have some of the advantages of the true spitzer while the modified point keeps the ogive length within reason.


Ogive its pronounced O-Jive

---------------------

Meplat = Width of the bullet's nose

Corbin's Standard Bullet Specs

Martin


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Posts: 1557 | Location: Home of the original swage | Registered: 29 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Martin, I'm with you. By "semi-spitzer, I mean a spitzer with a small flatnose, aka "ogival FN," if you like (or as I call it, "no-jive ogive!") If the jacket stops and leaves a flat around .180-.200" - that's what I mean. In Corbin's terms, S6 looks right.
[Although in review, I think I would go smaller, .150" or so.]
Not sure why anyone would "want" a small hole in the partition, but I understand it's the result of one easy way to make a partition. I figure on 1.35" bullet the partition could be around .65-ish, around the base-side of linear center, to good effect.
"Pure" lead seems best for OAL, and threads in the back seem a non-issue with a partition. In fact, would you even need to bond it at all?
 
Posts: 2000 | Location: Beaverton OR | Registered: 19 December 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Martin, I'm with you. By "semi-spitzer, I mean a spitzer with a small flatnose, aka "ogival FN," if you like (or as I call it, "no-jive ogive!") If the jacket stops and leaves a flat around .180-.200" - that's what I mean. In Corbin's terms, S6 looks right.
[Although in review, I think I would go smaller, .150" or so.]
Not sure why anyone would "want" a small hole in the partition, but I understand it's the result of one easy way to make a partition. I figure on 1.35" bullet the partition could be around .65-ish, around the base-side of linear center, to good effect.
"Pure" lead seems best for OAL, and threads in the back seem a non-issue with a partition. In fact, would you even need to bond it at all?


Flat pointed spitzer... ok got ya there Big Grin


quote:
If the jacket stops and leaves a flat around .180-.200" - that's what I mean


Are asking me to make a bullet that on impact only mushrooms out to .150 or .200 ?

Or are you saying you want the flat point to be something on that order when the bullet is made ? in a 210 grain .416 Diameter ?

quote:
threads in the back seem a non-issue with a partition. In fact, would you even need to bond it at all


Its up to you if you want this thing bonded but its just alot quicker to make unbonded bullet's
It just add's another step is all .and i hate Mad Unbonded bullet's . Thay spook me
as does using copper plumbing tubing for jackets

Thats not to say there really unsafe at all Hawks been making then for years and only 1159 have died form there bullet's..<--Just kidding .. Gotta roflmao.

And yes the making the hole in the middle is one way to make a partition .its by rolling the inner walls down over then bottom core and bonding a sec /core on top .

The other way is just make up the base's ahead of time and drop them in a jacket and bond them to the main corejacket..

Martin

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Posts: 1557 | Location: Home of the original swage | Registered: 29 February 2004Reply With Quote
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It's amazing how unclear I can be! (Don't let my wife see this; she'll hold it as evidence!)
Picture a bullet, with an exposed lead tip, flat, and about .180-.20" across the flat. Just make a spitzer and don't form the tip, more or less. That part isn't all that critical. More-or-less just an A-Frame but heavier than they offer.
I'm interested in the issue of bonding the base. Is there some way that could separate? Also, the second partition idea you had, you're saying make up little base plugs with a presumably thin jacket and then frop that into the bottom of the bullet, buonding the base's jacket to the outer, main jacket. That seems like a lot more work, no? Is there a structural issue with the hole-in-the-middle way? I still don't quite get how that's done. Do you jacket the base, with extra on top, then buckle it over itself? Thsi sounds hard to do and still leave a tube on top for the rest of the bullet. Or do I have the wrong idea.
Pretty cool stuff. I'd really love to get into swaging myself. But maybe after I've played with a few designs first, make sure what to buy.
 
Posts: 2000 | Location: Beaverton OR | Registered: 19 December 2002Reply With Quote
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So, the page doesn't really load well for me, but it looks like I could get a box of 50(?) 300g .358" spitzers, with a .40" jacket and BT for aaround $45 - is that right?
That is an excellent price for on-demand custom bullets.
 
Posts: 2000 | Location: Beaverton OR | Registered: 19 December 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bwana-be:
It's amazing how unclear I can be! (Don't let my wife see this; she'll hold it as evidence!)
Picture a bullet, with an exposed lead tip, flat, and about .180-.20" across the flat. Just make a spitzer and don't form the tip, more or less. That part isn't all that critical. More-or-less just an A-Frame but heavier than they offer.
I'm interested in the issue of bonding the base. Is there some way that could separate? Also, the second partition idea you had, you're saying make up little base plugs with a presumably thin jacket and then frop that into the bottom of the bullet, buonding the base's jacket to the outer, main jacket. That seems like a lot more work, no? Is there a structural issue with the hole-in-the-middle way? I still don't quite get how that's done. Do you jacket the base, with extra on top, then buckle it over itself? Thsi sounds hard to do and still leave a tube on top for the rest of the bullet. Or do I have the wrong idea.
Pretty cool stuff. I'd really love to get into swaging myself. But maybe after I've played with a few designs first, make sure what to buy.


Ok .. it works like this ..
Hold a 0.040 jacket in your hand . Its empty .
its let say 1.00 long/ In length and .416 in Diameter.. with me so far ? .

In your other hand you have a pre made bullet that just slips down inside the .416 jacket
Take alittle ruby red flux and drop a dab into the botton of the empty jacket then.
turn thatpre made bullet upside down with its jacketed Butt/Base facing up.
its got just a "we " bit of a lead nose but its flat and it will be facing the bottom of the
inside bottom of the .416 jacket base.
Next take a sec lead core and add it to the top for a compined weight of ?X then use a heat soroce and heat the bullet the flux will rise and bond the jacketed bullet to the inside of the .416 jacket.

The core seat the the partitioned bullet till the top of the core is flat and smooth .Next ..
thread in a point forming die to your press and
run it through the point former .to give the bullet its final shape .And you wind up with a partitioned bullet's. Big Grin

One of the other ways is to .
Take that same jacket thats empty . and add
hal;f the lead and a bit of flux then take it to your swage press and but a top punch in thats a bit larger in diameter then the jacket inside walls are thick and force some of the inside wall down over the top of the core ..covering it up and leaving a small vent hole then add fulx and the sec core and bond it together and then core seat that and then point form.


Now on to the bullet's

Bwana-be Wrote :

quote:
So, the page doesn't really load well for me, but it looks like I could get a box of 50(?) 300g .358" spitzers, with a .40" jacket and BT for aaround $45 - is that right?
That is an excellent price for on-demand custom bullets.


Ya it would be great if i had any jackets to make them in i still have not gotten my order
in .. and untill then i have to wait ... but once i do get them in i will be able to make
anything you guys want .. but right now ... Nope sorry .. i am doing Ed Hubles bullet's becouse those arethe jackets i have right now .. well those and some short .458's and some .510's and about 9 .423's and about 5 .366 jacket's ..

Sorry guy's untill them .. bawling


Martin


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Posts: 1557 | Location: Home of the original swage | Registered: 29 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Excellent explanation Martin. Thanks.
I have plenty to shoot, no hurry.
One more question for you, about the making of: can you buy one set for a caliber and style, then use it for a range of weights, or is the length of the bullet defined in the die set?


Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
 
Posts: 2000 | Location: Beaverton OR | Registered: 19 December 2002Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Excellent explanation Martin. Thanks.
I have plenty to shoot, no hurry.
One more question for you, about the making of: can you buy one set for a caliber and style, then use it for a range of weights, or is the length of the bullet defined in the die set?


Ok hers how that works .

When you buy a normal set of swage dies you get

One Core Forming die
That die is set for what ever jacket wall thickness your most often going to be using
So if your going to be making say .458 Diameter
bullets and you plain on using 0.040 jacket wall ..Jacket's.. then the Core Forming die will make Cores for just the size you need
the cores will also work quite well in
0.030 Jacket and 0.020 jackets and so on Down the line ..But.. the cores will be to big in diameter for jackets in 0.050 and up.
For a WallNut Swage Press thats about the max thickness anyway 0.050 jacket walls in soft copper.. or 0.030 Max in gilded Metal.
And the guilded metal jacket of 0.030 is as strong as any Copper jacket of 0.050 ..But guilded jacket tend to bust on impact unless anneled heavley before core bonding.

Now on to the Point Forming Die ..Its just that a point forming die Nuff said.

Core Seat Die ..Its for Pressing the core tightly down to give the top of the bullet unaformaty after the jacket and core are bonded together before point forming.

One normal die set in .458 diameter will make a
buttlet as thin as a washer or about 750
to 900 grain in weight

Heres how you order a set of die's

First/ know what jacket you plain on using ..

Sec./ know about how small a bullet you want
weight wise
And 3rd plain ahead for other bullet sizes making sure you have covered most bases

4th know what you want for a point or meplat
and take time to study .. really study
the diffrent ogives on points ..Take the time to decide if you might be wanted to also go for a Boattail. ( that can be ordered later )as an add on.. Take time to study never just rush into it or you will burn yourself by not plaining ahead .

Corbins -- Making Specific Kinds of Bullets


Martin


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Posts: 1557 | Location: Home of the original swage | Registered: 29 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Martin, you're so helpful. I wish I could come watch you make bullets sometime.
Foolish as it may be, I'm thinking of getting som R dies for my reloading press. I just can't afford the real press at the moment. But the selection on Corbin's site is very limited. Is there something about the R dies that make it difficult to do spitzers, for instance? Or maybe I'm just not seeing it right.
As for studying, it seems easy enough to get an S-6 (he calls it?) in .04" jacket. Then later, BT if you like, or lead point form if you like. Looks like any component of the set can be fitted later, like a difference core seater, a different ogive die, etc., as long as you stay in the same caliber, right?
Looks like if I can get away with using a reloading press, I can pay off the dies in just 5-600 bullets or so.
How did you get into this? Did you spend $30k on an entire set, or start making them for yourself and built equipment stock later?
I'm not at all interested in commercial, just interested....
 
Posts: 2000 | Location: Beaverton OR | Registered: 19 December 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Martin, you're so helpful. I wish I could come watch you make bullets sometime.
Foolish as it may be, I'm thinking of getting som R dies for my reloading press. I just can't afford the real press at the moment. But the selection on Corbin's site is very limited. Is there something about the R dies that make it difficult to do spitzers, for instance? Or maybe I'm just not seeing it right.
As for studying, it seems easy enough to get an S-6 (he calls it?) in .04" jacket. Then later, BT if you like, or lead point form if you like. Looks like any component of the set can be fitted later, like a difference core seater, a different ogive die, etc., as long as you stay in the same caliber, right?
Looks like if I can get away with using a reloading press, I can pay off the dies in just 5-600 bullets or so.
How did you get into this? Did you spend $30k on an entire set, or start making them for yourself and built equipment stock later?
I'm not at all interested in commercial, just interested....


Richard Corbins web site address

RCE.Co

How did i get started ....Gezz guy your going to make a pot of coffee for this one.

It was Sept/1964 just before school started that i got my first swage dies for a man named Ted Smith..

My very first die set was a single stage die ment for the reloading press. I still have it .


You will also see a powder dribbler in the picture i got that from Ted Smith as well ..Small note : ted smith invented the powder dribble and sold the patten to RCBS........

Along with that die i bout anyother die set but that die set
for a diffrnet type of press thats long since gone as well as the press.

I made and sold my first bullets to friends and nabors in the area thay were .356 diameter and .358 diameter bullets .
most were gas checked with a Zink washer and some had thin wall jackets . most of the bullets i made were for those that owned 35 remintons and 38's and 357's .
In 1968 i bought two more dies .429 and .457 and i made more and more bullets for folks .
in the late 70's i moved to Alaska were i married and had kids and stopped making bullets ..
It wasn't till 1984 that i got back into it and started looking into doing it full time

It was 1998 on a forum board set up by Marlin that i meet/
started emailing others about the bullet types thay most liked . and thats when i bought my first Mulit swage hydral/ press for Richard ..and i knew Richard Corbin from the old days when i was swaging bullets ..Dave and Rich bought out Teds company and started making the tooling for swagers
in the mid 70's

So to answer your question

quote:
How did you get into this? Did you spend $30k on an entire set, or start making them for yourself and built equipment stock later?


No i started with a $10.00 swage die and an old reloading
press . and after 40 odd years i now have a few more press's

Martin


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