Tungsten: Where do you get it, how do you form it, can it be used in powder form - e.g., as a filler with a lead cap....
Anyone work with this stuff?

The WWII german 88 round had a tungsten core. There is now tungsten shot available. The only work I've done with it is as an alloying element in some tool steels.

Often thought the same thing since it is about 1.5 times heaver than lead you could really increase the weight of a bullet and reduce the overall lenght. Any good machine shop has sources for powdered form. RNS

It will need about 3400�C to melt it

Jiri

www.mcmaster-carr.com

They have it, but good luck actually working the stuff...

Time was Dave Corbin had it.
Is tungsten malleable enough to be swaged?
Jim

Tungsten powder can be pressed into gilding metal jackets for a very dense bullet. These are made commercially somewhere, I just don't know the maker's name.

Powell River Laboratories used to make bullets with a powdered tungsten core.

Based on results from a Google search, they apparently have had some financial difficulties.

I think you're chasing the wild goose here, my friends.

This fails the "WHY-test" big time.

Fails the why test??

I've got an article for you to read Pecos 45, say the word and email me, I'll send it to you. I'll let you know it's coming so you know it isn't a freakin virus. You'll definitely be amazed.

Look at the 30 cal PRL 253gr and the MV and trajectory. These were just their target versions, but I know of a guy who hunts with the hunting type, the ones he has left anyway.

PRL is now Brown Dog Ent. and does mostly government contract work now I'm told.

Their Number is:

(805)497-2318

Brown Dog Ent.
2200 Calle Camelia
1000 Oaks CA 91360

Corbin has the powdered tungsten and directions on how it's to be used in bullets.

Speer makes their 458 solids with a tungsten core (I can't remember if the .416 bullets are similarly constructed).

The bullets are about $5 each.

I still have a box somewhere.

Garrett

Hello All,

You might try looking at Graybeard talk forum at http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/index.php under �Bullet Swaging� the home of the original bullet swaging talk forum.

Bwana-be
You would use powder tungsten and not solid tungsten in the making of you bullet cores. You can go to Corbin�s site and read about its use.

RNS
Even though solid tungsten is almost 1.7 times the density of lead, powder tungsten is only about 1.25 times the density of lead. So the level of benefit is only marginal but is could be the margin that wins a match.

And the powder tungsten is pressed into the core about the same way that a lead core is, not melted. HAHA

Pecos45
Some of the most fun stuff and most worthwhile inventions have come out of what you call �chasing the wild goose�. If your only criteria is for your �WHY-test� for doing something then why do you do anything. You should go beyond your limited imagination and explore other potentials while not knocking others for asking �what if� and trying new things.

Donna

I have worked with tungsten and copper-tungsten for many years - make that 30 years. It is very abrasive material and quite expensive. It has good characteristics for the electrical industries and we as "Tool & Die Makers" use it quite often in producing tooling. It stinks to high heaven when machining it. I don't have a MSDT (material safety data sheet) on it but I know if not used in a highly ventelated area it can be harmfull to ones health.

If anybody is going to work with it, please be carefull.

Don

As far as that goes, lead is by far more toxic than tungsten or copper-tungsten ever thought of being. I am not down playing anything here but as in all things dealing with materials especially powdered materials and fumes that can be inhaled, absorbed by the skin, and/or ingested one should always look at the toxicity or threat to human life.

As a side not the dry lub molly and mica are highly toxic if inhaled. Now I know none of us are going to snort molly or mica on purpose. But its toxicity is not always known and it only takes a small accidental inhalation or your small child to get into it to do great harm.

So by all means know what you�re working with and take the proper precautions.

Donna

Hi Donna, thanks for blessing us with your info. Now be a dear and go play with yourself.

What about lathe turned sabbot inserts made from tungsten ? (Good carbide tools can do it) ? Some 80gr .22 bullet at 5000fps in .308 sabbot could be great armor pearcer/varmint bullet or simply "tungsten cylinders" for taking big game (.416/.458, .458/.505, .458/.510) sabbots ?

Jiri

There must be some history here,Dan is not normally like that.
If you want more weight in your rounds how about salvaging the gold out of computers and using that for a core? derf

Gold would make a good core, and platinum would be a good jacket material I think.

How about uranium? Works for the 30mm.

Hi Donna, thanks for blessing us with your info. Now be a dear and go play with yourself.

Uncalled for is an understatement!

Obviously Dan din't have anything intelligent to add, so zip your lip next time smart ass.

Welcome to AR Donna, Dan don't speak for no one but himself, and he speaks volumes about himself too.

What is the density when tungsten is compressed, not much more or what? Have you read the article on the PRL bullets, it was in PS magazine?

Well, I thought it appropriate. Guy expresses an opinion that it "fails the Why test" and the lady assails his mental capacity. What's up with that crap? Yeah, I know Pecos doesn't need my help.

Brent, your response was appropriate and to the point, offering a counter to the question, with factual info. That is the way it's supposed to work.

As far as I'm concerned, when you open that door, you are fair game for like treatment, and in this case richly deserved. I offer no apology.

In the FWIW Dept. the tungsten core thing is interesting and has great POTENTIAL for certain applications; too, it has problems that may preclude its successful application in long range scenarios, a circumstance where it might realize its best advantage. Compacting or compressing powdered tungsten in a fashion that insures reasonalble balance on the longitudinal axis on a consistant basis is one of those issues, and I believe PRL had difficulties in that area. JMO

DigitalDan, Dan,

Forgive me my lord if I spoke harshly to a man. Pray tail my lord, but I fail to see how, a person telling another person that he is chasing the wild goose and what he thinks is a neat thing to do is failing the �WHY-test�, is an opinion. Is this not saying that if I don�t think it is worthwhile to do then, it is a foolish adventure? In my experience this shows of the tall tail signs of a lack of an imagination on the part of a person that knocks other person�s curiosity. My lord, is it your position that it is an acceptable practice for a man to put another person down and unacceptable for a woman to rebuke a man for doing some thing wrong?

To say to someone, �go play with yourself� is it not the same thing as saying to that person to �go f**k yourself? In either case, if the situation were reversed I would have never been as crass as that towards you, my lord. Seeing that only one person truly came to a lady�s aid with a proper rebuke, thank you Sir Brent Moffitt � chivalry is not dead, I will give my farewells and keep over on Graybeard�s talk forum where the people have a more friendly appeal to them.

Again, thank you Sir Brent Moffitt for your gallantry.

You�re most humble servant,
Donna

Brent,
Brown Dog Enterprises used to be a PRL Distributor way back when. They no longer have anything to do with PRL, which last year sold off their equipment and closed their doors. I know former employees of PRL and I know "Brown Dog" as well. P.S. If you're offering the PS article, there's some follow up's by some of the cited principles that are far less encouraging.

A bit of history for the gang here; PRL or Powell River Laboratories worked on Powdered Tungsten Cored bullets with the intent of giving the Gov't, Law Enforcement and others a bullet that did not carry the inherent dangers of lead bullets indoors. As a side-line, they developed a line of target and hunting bullets with theorized outstanding BC's. Initial tests were positive and the major barrier to widespread use was their incredible costs (at 2.00 and up per bullet who could afford to practice?!) Apparently, the accuracy was never consistently satisfactory and for reasons unknown to me, the "green bullet" concept didn't pan out.

I have used the tungsten powder from Corbin to make a few 14 bullets. They shot better than any lead core bullet I have ever made. It is 1.7 times as dense as lead. The powder is extremely fine though, and if any of it were to get into the dies, they would be toast. It is not easy to work with, but they do make a funnel kit for making cores with it. I used wax to hold the tungsten together in core form before using the pointing die.

Performance was unreal. I have two 14's, one with a 7 twist and one with an 8 1/2 twist. They shoot from a 10 to a 17.5 grain (lead) bullet at near 4500. Figure the RPM's of that with the 7 twist....it's near a half million. I shot at three coke cans lined up with water in them with these bullets. The first one dissapeared. The second one was tore up pretty bad and the top was separated from the rest of the can. The third can was still there. There was all kinds of schrapnel punctures in the sides of the first can from the bullet spinning apart.

Corbin sells the powder for $20 a pound.

russ@smallcaliberbullets.com

The real potential for tungsten is with non expanding solids. From what I was able to gather on corbin's website the compressed tungsten is frangible but if it is sintered or heated to a certain temperature I believe around 1000 degrees it becomes solid again. This is the process by which many tungsten tools are made as it is way too hard to machine.

A tungsten cored solid would give a heavy bullet which is very tough. A second possibility would be to do the rear core of a partition type bullet with tungsten. Again the purpose is to make heavy for caliber bullets for close in work on dangerous animals.

Just some food for thought.
Jeff

Our company has machined radiation collimating devices out of one of the machinable grades of tungsten. We were all surprised at how well it machined.

We bought it as a round bar and had no problem band sawing it or lathe turning with carbide tools. The surface finish was even nice.

It gave me the same ideas for use as a solid bullet material (a guy can at least dream about hunting elephants for nothing). My thoughts were to make a saboted bullet or to plate a jacket on the rod and then turn bullets out of it.

From my one time experience, I would think it could be turned on a small CNC lathe without problems.

I don't remember the specific grade. It could probably be found by searching on tungsten/machinable/radiation shielding.

I believe you can also get powdered Tungsten from Brownell's; sometimes the powder is used to mix in with bedding epoxys. Check in their catalog.
As for solid Tungsten I played with some over a decade ago. I had a source for free Tungsten, and I guess some of the same ideas about its density occured to me. Try a welding shop, TIG welders usually use either Tungsten or a High Tungsten alloy. They come in diferent sizes, about 6 inchs long from what I remember. I knew a welder who had held on to a pile of the left over end bits, and I used them to goof around with. I could not get a sabot that fit the sizes I had at the time, they were all smaller than 22. But I suppose with the know-how out there now on how to make your own sabots it would be much easier. One thing to remember is that the solid is actually somewhat brittle, something like carbide. I used to make my make-shift inserts about 1/3 of an inch long, and grind the tips into a point. I had plans to use aluminum as a sabot, or as a jacket, to carry the Tungsten down range, but never persued it any further. It was pointless fun for a long winter, namely making Tungsten penetrators, for no reason other than curiosity.

Lady, Gents and other wise
Could you mix, notice said mix rather then alloy, tungsten in lead to make a heavier core then lead alone? Use the lead as the cement and the tungsten as the aggregate.
Jim

PMed bartsche

Bartsche,
PM sent.