picked up some high tec, lead 148gr wadcutters.
Seated real easy so I measured a few and the diameter was .354"
checked some others and the were .356" to .357" What I though they should be.
Ill find out sunday how they group.
Dave

Which .38 Special? (You trying to start a fight?)

In the lore, the lead bullet should be "bore diameter to a couple thousandths over bore diameter. Ordinary .38 Special is usually considered .357 or .358. Colt had a rep for accuracy 'cause its barrels were actually .356, i.e "tight." Of course 9mm is considered .355 or .356...

At the same time, many bullets have been made of softer lead/lead alloy and hollow based with the intent that they "swell" under pressure to fill the bore. .45 Long Colt was .454, not standard is .452. Factory bullet is hollow based. .38 S&W. .38 Special Wadcutter, hollow base...

As long as you can get a crimp on them, see how your gun likes them and if it doesn't switch. luck.

iiranger, what the heck is the "45 Long Colt"? There never was such an animal. It is either the 45 Colt or 45 ACP, and nothing else...

I guess I am showing my age. Sorry. Hair is thinning too.

When I was young many years ago, the ammo catalogues listed the .45 Colt as .45 Long Colt. As a youth I assumed this to differintiate it from the .45 A.C.P. I was wrong. Many years later, reading old E. Keith, it all became clear to me. The ammo companys loaded a full power "long" case load for many calibers and also loaded a "short" load in a shorter case. .22 Rimfire survives this way. In fact, "short", "long" and "long rifle..." It is pretty much forgotten optherwise except in historical references.

The .45 Colt Single Action round was available in a shorter cased version, less power, and, no doubt, less expense. Someone was trying to please the customer. This was in addition to the .45 S&W and the .45 Schofield (related to the S&W) and a dozen other rounds that could interchange in a pinch. .44/40 will fire (or .38/40) in a .45 Colt. I did not say the power or accuracy would amount to much. I said it would fire. (Ruin the case in the process.)

Elmer told a story of a butcher who thought he was going to "put down" a full grown bull with a Colt .41. Shot the bull in the head. Made the bull mad. He very specifically states that he did not pick up the gun to see what cartridge was in it but he would bet the fool thought he was going to penetrate the skull of an animal that fights butting heads with a .41 Short Colt. Of course Elmer advocated long and hard for heavier bullets and heavier loads in handguns that could take the stresses and lead to the .357 and later .44 Magnums with his efforts. He ended the problem with the angry bull with a .45 Colt hand loaded with a 300 grain lead bullet (from a rifle mold) as I recall. That penetrated the skull.

So yes, today the catalogue only lists the .45 ACP and the .45 Colt. If you choose to ignore history and where we have come from, that is enough for you. I lived a very, very tiny part of "history" (and of no significance) and I recall other times when the catalogue listed a .45 Long Colt... Forgive me. I will spare you the story of the Herter .357, 401, and .44 Powermags... You can have your choice of .40 S&W, 10mm Mag, .41 Rem mag... and forget Mr. H.

I too read that it is improper to label it 45 'Long' Colt, as there never was a 45 'Short' Colt. I'm sure the "long" moniker continues as lawyerspeak, but in this day and age it is not needed to describe the cartridge, and to some, offensive. I know I cringe when I read 45 LONG Colt.

As for the 38 Smith & Wesson Special, .358" lead bullets are the norm. Any more and you start to bulge the case.

In a revolver? I size to give a push, interference, fit THROUGH THE CYLINDER. And then buy the appropriate sizing die. So that with a firm pressure I can push the bullet through by hand with a short dowel.


The only exception being for the S & W Model 12 and other "Airweight" revolvers where I size to "normal" specification so as to not have bullets jump the case under recoil.
What is the point of sizing to barrel throat when the bullet has to go through the cylinder first to get there?

The point is to open the cylinders up so as not to size the bullet smaller than the bore when the round is fired. A small bullet rattling down a large barrel doesn't do much for accuracy.

HiVel; this is the way I do it. First slug the barrel and determine groove dia, then slug the throats of the cylinder, all of them. Now if you are lucky the smallest throat will be groove dia or slightly over, size all your bullets to the largest throat dia and it will shoot and not lead. If your gun has throats that are smaller than groove dia you will have a tougher time getting it to shoot accurately and not lead, but still is possible with some knowledge and understanding of cast bullets, and some luck wouldn't hurt. If you have one with throats smaller than the groove dia, and at this time you don't want to open the throats up, then pick a soft bullet or a hollow based bullet and swat it in the ass with a fast burning powder to try and bump it up to groove after it enters the barrel. Cylinder throats can be reamed out and fire-lapped out until you get the diameter you want. Sometimes you get a revolver with a single throat that is undersized, like my ruger blackhawk, I marked that chamber and firelapped until it was the same as the other five, fire five clean and slug, repeat until desired effect is reached, worked for me , no more fliers and no more lead. Both my .357's have .358" grooves and throats are slightly larger, so I size .359.

45 Colt= 45 long Colt
45 Scholfield = 45 Short Colt
The S&W top break revolver cyclinder was not long enough to handle the 45 Colt so they made a shorter version to fit.

Jim

http://nationalbullet.com/index.php?name=Swaged_Bullets

HiVel......I'd give those bullets away to someone who casts bullets......here's a link to the best bullets I ever shot...a .358 148gr. HBWC from National...could be 'iffy' at times re. shipping time. With 6" scoped Smith M14, Wichita comp., Bullseye.......one smoking hole. Same load but with a different brand .357 sized produced acceptable groups, not superior as NBC did. FWIW if course. r in s.

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:
45 Colt= 45 long Colt
45 Scholfield = 45 Short Colt
The S&W top break revolver cyclinder was not long enough to handle the 45 Colt so they made a shorter version to fit.

Jim

Arkypete knows his stuff about this one.

There was a time when both the S&W AND the Colt revolvers were U.S. Army issue (mainly to the Cavalry units). The .45 S&W was chambered for a round a little shorter than the .45 Colt, but otherwise essentially the same. To keep from having logistics problems on the frontier, the Army ordered its arsenal(s) to load only the S&W length as the S&W cartridges worked just fine in the Colt revolvers. So, there was the .45 cartridge and the .45 long (Colt) cartridge. Hence the name for the longer one eventually came to be known as the .45 lONG COLT.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
iiranger, what the heck is the "45 Long Colt"? There never was such an animal. It is either the 45 Colt or 45 ACP, and nothing else...

You are technically correct that there is no such cartridge as the 45 Long Colt. However, I can tell you, as a long time shooter, that the term was commonly used and still is by some of the older guys, like me. The "Short Colt" was the 45 S&W Schofield even though, that too, is a misnomer.

As we die off you will find that the term "Long Colt" will be buried along with us. But there is a basis for using it. It is a legitimate part of cartridge and shooting lingo and should not be lost to history, like so many other things have been, simply because it is not technically correct. To me it's no different than '06 or Deuce or Short Magnum, or any of the other terms used to describe well known cartridges, which you will not find on any boxes either.

And just for the record, I recently saw a box of new ammunition that was labeled "45 LONG COLT". I believe it was some of the "Cowboy" ammunition but I can't recall now exactly where I saw it.

Ray

My Uberti 1873 Cattleman has "Cal 45 LC" stamped on the barrel. But what do those Italians know anyway?

Alan