I have a question for any automotive engineers on this board. When did any form of lubrication for fasteners fall out of fashion? I do some repairs on my vehicles when I have time and every repair I do I experience frozen hardware. Not to mention bolts that have been tighten to an inch away from snapping. How much would a little dry moly cost for a years worth of production? No wonder repair bills are so high. Most mechanics must spend most of the day fighting frozen bolts.

A little anti seize would go a long way. When ever I put back nuts and bolts I apply some.

Modern vehicles aren't built to be repaired. Just like everything else we own, it breaks, you buy a new one.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams:
Modern vehicles aren't built to be repaired. Just like everything else we own, it breaks, you buy a new one.

Grizz

Grizz,

This is a common misconception and is untrue. Don't feel bad as I had the same viewpoint for many years and I've even worked as a mechanic!

Anyway, next time you go to a dealership look at how much floor space is devoted to the sales floor, then go to the service bay and see how much square footage is given to service.

Service is where a dealership makes the real money, which explains a fair amount of why vehicles are designed the way they are.

I think they're designed so that the average joe can't repair them. Then they take and say "this job should take this long", have a guy specialize in it so he is 2-3 times faster, and still charge that rate because that is what it should take. Crazy. You can't fix half the things on the car for what you paid for it.

My 2003 trailblazer is paid off in 10 months, at that point I'm saving up and my next daily/local driver is going to be something old that I can work on myself and when things break I can find or make parts for it.

I think this crap all started in the late 70's early 80's. I have an 84 motorhome on an econoline chassis, to drop the power steering pump down one of the bolts you have to loosen takes about 20" worth of extension IIRC. My trailblazer I needed a new thermostat, my uncle did it for me but had to take the front wheel off and modify a wrench to get to the damn thing. I think the dealer wanted 250-300 to change it.

Red

The rule should be that no one can design cars until they have been mechanics for at least one year !

quote:

The rule should be that no one can design cars until they have been mechanics for at least one year !

The guy who designed the TJ jeep rear shock mount would have his mother slap him. Harden bolts snap from corrosion with no room to drill or EZ out them out.

I can offer some input to this. I work in a fastener company and do a lot of testing. I also do as much work on my vehicles as I can figure out. No doubt more money is made on a car in the dealer garage than the showroom. It's been that way for years and the cost of mfg a car in the US is never going to go down. Design things like ECM's that control windshield wipers and you're a genius.
As far as fasteners needing lubricant:
As long as you understand that by making a threaded joint more slippery, you are greatly increasing the tension even at the same torque as the dry assembly. Much more in fact. I've seen 30-35% increases in tension at the correct torque. Never seiz is really good at keeping things from rusting together, but use it carefully. A bolt should be in an elastic condition when tightened. Approaching or passing the actual yield point is dangerous. Everything will appear tight. However, the assembly has lost clamp force. If it would simply snap offat this point, you'd be lucky. But when this "loose" joint starts moving in application, you get a delayed fatigue failure. Wheels fall off - people get hurt.
Also most OEM fasteners are using coatings now rather than plating. Usually they hold up a while, but when you own cars as long as I do, there will be corrosion. Especially with our Cleveland winter salt! Kroil is the best penetrating rust buster that I have used. Even old bleeder screws!