I hesitate to post this here, hopefully Saeed and other moderators will tolerate it, but the situation is this...

The wife of a colleague at my university showed up at our door beaten up last night and spent the night here with her three daughters being consoled by my wife. Being an academic, and at her request, I took her to the appropriate university office today to get her some "end of contract" departure tickets or "home leave" tickets home to Europe where she has a support mechanism. In typical "abused wife" fashion, she has little access to her own money as he controls it.

To my amazement, the university has told her "Sorry, we cant issue those tickets without the signature of the actual employee on the form (her abusive husband)". It is looking like they might stick to that position despite my voiced outrage and taking it up to the university president. Given that, she is therefore forced to interact with the husband today and tomorrow hoping to get his signature on the appropriate institutional forms. This, of course, means that she is much more likely to be convinced that staying with him is viable. I'd like to spare her that as it turns out she has been knocked around three or four times in the last six months according to another colleague here in the building so it's probably getting time for her to bolt.

Crux of the matter...at present, airline tickets for three daughters (one being an infant) and mom are looking at about $1800. I can throw in $300 right now. Anyone willing to help with the remainder? Figure 15 guys $100 at a time gets this woman safe.

Sorry to post this here, but it's where I know people and where people know me to be assured this isn't me scamming. Frankly, people willing to donate might even be able to pay the uni travel office directly via credit card as a way of knowing it's not just going into my pocket. I can facilitate that.

Anyone?

John

With due respect, why haven't you turned this over to the police?

The husband should be charged with Domestic Violence, the wife would get a restraining order, VAWA funding and quite likely sufficient legal assistance that the university would be "convinced" to pony up the tickets.

There is a system in place. Use it.

and what is she gonna do in europe without money???

quote:

Originally posted by WannabeBwana:
With due respect, why haven't you turned this over to the police?

Because we live in Egypt (working for an American institution).

Goldeneye,

Her family/friends are in Europe (and she is from the country of final destination).

Egypt, another country full of "tolerant" Muslims and another haven for wife beaters.

http://www.womenundersiegeproj...estic-abuse-in-egypt

http://www.prb.org/Publication...cviolence-egypt.aspx

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...lence_n_6517346.html

You say that you work for an American institution. If your colleague also works for the same institution she should contact them in the USA and put pressure on them that way. They would have nothing to loose or fear in Egypt but their reputation will mean a lot more to them in the USA. Who is this institute anyway?

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Egypt, another country full of "tolerant" Muslims and another haven for wife beaters.

Both participants are European citizens, not Egyptian. The particularly disturbing part of all this is that the US institution is requiring the signature from "the employee" for the spouse to leave (home leave is a benefit to the employee and "family") with full knowledge of what is going on. I can't imagine that doesn't make them somewhat liable if, after he refuses to sign off, she is beaten further or killed days or weeks later. Also, it's not like they are being asked to pony up money they would not otherwise be spending. This home leave benefit can be taken once a year and at any point in the year and the whole family is entitled to it.

I don't know, doesn't Egypt have an laws against domestic abuse or assault?

Second, does her family have any money? If not, how is she going to support herself and 3 kids when/if she returns home.

Third, if you contact a US news rep (AP, for example) you might be able to get him/her to run or even threaten to run and in the process contact the US head officials, a story on her plight, that would 100% get the US institution off of zero.

Surely her country of citizenship has an embassy or consulate in Cairo. She should contact them and discuss the issue, and any possible way forward using their support.

I am cynical and suspicious.

If what you have posted is true, she needs to get herself and her kids to the embassy of her home country and ask to be repatriated.

She can file charges with the embassy's help, as well.

No one should send money they aren't prepared to kiss goodbye.



George

Just hunt the bastard down and kill him?

Situation is apparently resolved, but I have to say that the responses to this thread have been almost as enlightening as the reality of trying to get this woman and her kids out. Some of you clearly have no idea what the third world is like and no idea how, if you don't make it easy for them, abused women will sometimes find any reason to stay with the abuser. Embassies? The Police? You really think an abused woman with three kids is going to be able to navigate that in this place when three plane tickets are just quicker and don't allow her time to think about whether or not she really "needs to leave"? Frankly, the husband has clearly cultivated and capitalized on her apparent helplessness in this regard.

Many of us have more experience living and working overseas than you do. If she is unwilling to contact her own embassy or consulate, which requires nothing more than calling them, or going to their front gate, then she really isn't trying to get out of her current situation.

Foreign (Egyptian) police would be of no help, and would have no interest in her situation.

Personally, I'm not even convinced there is any such woman. This seems to be nothing more than a request for cash based on the limited amount of information you've provided. If there were about six zeros to the left of the decimal I would say we were talking about Nigeria rather than Egypt.

If everything is on the up-and-up, her first line of support is her family in Europe, not AR. (You might have better luck on Go Fund Me. I'm amazed what people can raise there.)

My personal experience in a similar case while working / living in South America involved a really great woman that was married to a POS that regularly fueled himself on drugs and alcohol which always led to the woman being cheated on, and physically and emotionally abused. It finally came to a head. Her friends and family rallied around her. The POS ran away and hid.

Everyone helped the woman return to the U.S. and re-start her life.

About three months later the POS was back in the house and all was forgiven. He was supposedly a "changed man". Then, about six months later, he apparently changed back.

The end of the story is that about six months later she apparently got hit hard enough to wake-up, and threw him out for good. She's now happy, remarried, and living the life she always hoped for.

I'm not sure there is a moral to this story. Women being abused seem to have a hard time breaking the cycle. The abuser has generally destroyed their feeling of self-worth. Family and friends need to help rebuild that. Money usually isn't the solution.

As I said....the situation is, at least when it comes to my involvement, resolved. She is "wheels up" in just over 8 hours.

In just the last couple of months, a woman cried for money to "bury her child". She took the money and bought a car. Michael Brown's family has collected over $50,000.00 to put a monument on his grave. Months have past and still no monument. But the family is living large. I'm sure these are just the tip of the "gimme" racket.
So you can understand our skepticism. So don't chide us. Your efforts do not afford you any sort of high road.

How about the details on how it was "resolved"?

He either signed or she forged his sig on the appropriate form. Either way, institution issued tickets home. Whether she stays away, that is another question of course.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:

So you can understand our skepticism. So don't chide us. Your efforts do not afford you any sort of high road.

Ya, you got me...I made 2400 posts over several years on a hunting forum as a means to scamming people out of $1500. LOL! Hell, if I were working at minimum wage for every bit of time spent posting on AR, I would earn a good bit more than that. In any case, situation resolved. Done deal.

FWIW I am 100% convinced the story is true based on reading tendram's posts over the years.

My only hesitation was because the recidivism rate is so high by abused women. They seem to either to accept the abuser back or find another one with amazing frequency. Not to mention we have thousands of people who need help closer to home.

I think that low life POS that would beat a woman because of some defect in their character or ego should have their nuts removed and that would help solve the problem. If not, try their head.

quote:

My only hesitation was because the recidivism rate is so high by abused women.

Absolutely. Especially true for women who have no education or many better options than the guy they are with. To give an example of how messed up the psychology is, this woman has multiple advanced degrees and a job that I would kill for waiting for her in Belgium. Still, I lost track of the number of times over the last three days that she asked me, "Do I need to leave?" or "Can I" or "Should I"?

Even so, and I am not slamming you or anyone in saying this, deciding not to help an abused woman because the odds are high she will just go back to him is a bit like saying "No, I don't brush my teeth because they will just get dirty again and need brushing again tomorrow". In any case, she is probably in France by now and hopefully she is smart enough to stay there.

multiple degree's and jobs just waiting on her......and no money for herself????

This is getting even more interesting.


------

wasen't there some gun builder here on AR who was gonna build some doubles for people but disapeard with the money???

Correct. It surprises you that an abusive husband controls his wife with money?

quote:

Even so, and I am not slamming you or anyone in saying this, deciding not to help an abused woman because the odds are high she will just go back to him is a bit like saying "No, I don't brush my teeth because they will just get dirty again and need brushing again tomorrow". In any case, she is probably in France by now and hopefully she is smart enough to stay there.

Well, let me speak in plain English, since my attempt at diplomatic phrasing didn't seem to get through. There are, at any given moment, many thousands of abused women in the US. It's not that I don't have any sympathy for them, it is simply that my resources are limited and abused women are fairly far down my scale of giving because I think hunger, cancer, heart disease, waterfowl, and other charitable causes are more important to me as a general group of charitable giving. Now, if, like you, I had a personal relationship with an abusee I would certainly act differently but, in your case, as it relates to my giving, it is like the old TV series line about NYC, "there are 8 million stories in the city" and I don't have any personal interest in yours. Call it cold, call it calculating, call it anything you want, but it's my money and my choices. You were asking 15 of us to give $100 for a foreign national who got herself, almost certainly knowingly, in a bad spot. I would reply that charity begins at home, specifically your home.

"I'm not slamming you or anyone in saying this, but deciding" to only contribute $300 out of $1800 is a little like saying "Well, I know all my teeth need brushing but I only have time to brush 2 of them today, so I hope someone will help me out and I can brush the others later." In short, if the woman was my friend, if I didn't have the money available, I'd have hocked the car/jewels/borrowed the money, etc. to get her out, not ask some group of relative strangers for help. I'm very glad she is apparently home and safe for the moment, but I would call your response somewhat muted given the circumstances. Perhaps if she had not been able to get transport your position would have change? Let's hope so.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
[QUOTE]I would call your response somewhat muted given the circumstances.

Well, not that you have any way of knowing this, but (in plain English) the woman is definitely more an acquaintance than a friend. Further, and again "I am not slamming you or anyone in saying this", you have absolutely positively no idea regarding the totality of my response. She is out though, so everything is done for now. No further comment is necessary as the point is moot.

I performed a rhinoplasty for free earlier this year on a gal whose ex-husband had broken her nose 6 times. A few other docs gave her a new mouthful of dental implants. She was vetted prior to our intervening and then demonstrated that our assistance was not in vain at a celebratory dinner with 200 attendees.

We each do what we can. You thought you were doing the right thing. None of us did. Hope things turn out well for her.

I agree with every word Gato wrote.

I did the right thing on multiple fronts. She's home. You may not have liked this front, but it turned out to be unnecessary anyway. I can't help but be reminded of an old Babe Ruth quote here...."The loudest boos always come from the cheapest seats".

quote:

She's home.

Does that mean she is back with her husband or back in her home country.

As a LEO I have been to most likely a couple thousand of domestics.

The dynamics can be interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

She's home.

The dynamics can be interesting.

She is in her home country now. Regarding interesting dynamics...ya, tell me about it. Imagine you lived in the same building as your partner (or someone you saw every day) and his wife just showed up on your doorstep one night, bruised up and asking for help. I had to go into the guys office the other day saying, "Look, I know I am the last person you want to talk to but I did exactly what I would want you to do if my wife showed up crying at your door". He was, perhaps surprisingly, more than a little philosophical about it.

quote:

He was, perhaps surprisingly, more than a little philosophical about it.

IF he was one of my "friends" he would have been looking for his teeth!


.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

He was, perhaps surprisingly, more than a little philosophical about it.

IF he was one of my "friends"....

Excuse me? Did I say that? I am at most acquaintances with both of them, work with the husband, and happen to live in the same building.

Since it's over, why not just drop it before there's a big bullshit arguement here?

George

I agree with George;if the issue is over...drop it! End of discussion.

If you want it to drop, stop commenting and bringing the discussion to the top of the page! LOL!