I've got a three (3) acre pond that is leaking about 15,000 gallons a day. (It is not a riser issue.) My feel is that the leak is around the roots of three old dead hackberry trees that I've cut down in the last five (5) years. They were standing at the northeast end of the dam. I notice on line there are two products from Australia that are non-toxic. I had a pond management company quote me $35,000 to solve it, but their product will create a fish kill. So the answer to that is, hell no.

Do any of you have any first hand experience solving such a problem?

The leak appears to be on the face of the dam, rather than at the bottom, as the leak subsides as the water level drops. (About five years ago the leak stopped when the pond was about three-fourths full.)

Cant guarantee the absence of harming fish, but I cured retention pond leaks with grey cement worked into about 6 inches of the dam material. This was in NW Fl and the soil was about 90 % sand. The cement will leach into the sand for an indeterminate depth as well. FDEP was satisfied and the leaks were still gone after 3 years. Being as the depth on your dam is known you have most of the problem solved.

Mostly clay soil. The leak appears about 75' downstream of the dam after the subterranean flow goes under my outdoor living area foundation. No way of using the cement as a hole is not apparent at the dam. Thanks for the thought.

If it is the results of the tree on the dam . . .rotting tree roots then sooner rather than later might be a good idea.

Root holess may collapse and seal on their own, or grow due to erosion until there is catastrophic failure.

Not sure of toxicity, but heavy dose of bentonite applied only to area where the tree were may seal it.

Ken, I have a stock tank on the back of my property with the same issue. I'm working on it. One thing is if you know anyone in the construction business that has damaged sheetrock that they want to dispose of. The gypsum in the sheetrock is the same material used to line tanks. Also, ducks + pigs crapping in the water will seal it eventually. My son doesn't want ducks or pigs so I kinda understand, but I would rather have a watertight stock tank. If worse comes to worst you might contact the county extension agent for ideas.

Have had customers use bentonite on smaller leaks successfully

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
I've got a three (3) acre pond that is leaking about 15,000 gallons a day. (It is not a riser issue.) My feel is that the leak is around the roots of three old dead hackberry trees that I've cut down in the last five (5) years. They were standing at the northeast end of the dam. I notice on line there are two products from Australia that are non-toxic. I had a pond management company quote me $35,000 to solve it, but their product will create a fish kill. So the answer to that is, hell no.

Do any of you have any first hand experience solving such a problem?

The leak appears to be on the face of the dam, rather than at the bottom, as the leak subsides as the water level drops. (About five years ago the leak stopped when the pond was about three-fourths full.)

Dumbasses like you deserve to fork over the $35k. Realizing you've likely not done any honest work in years, the average guy with half a brain can get some bentonite and disc it in with a tractor themselves. If you have a friend maybe they can help.

I don't have a dog in this hunt but I will say that that is a very caustic comment on what I consider a reasonable question.

Grubbs, the reason your idea is worthless is that I can't drain the pond to disk in bentonite with a tractor. (I'm assuming you do know that tractors don't work under water.) What else you got?

delete

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
Grubbs, the reason your idea is worthless is that I can't drain the pond to disk in bentonite with a tractor. (I'm assuming you do know that tractors don't work under water.) What else you got?

Why can't you drain the pond? Don't know how to start a water pump?

I would have to convince the city, the HOA, raise the assessments, etc. Your idea is probably a $50,000 solution. It would never fly.

Why don't you stop carrying that chip around on your shoulder. Your beginning to look silly.

What would it cost to have a section of corrugated steel pilings driven through the dam to block off the flow? Like a coffer dam. If you could lower the level to where you say the leak is, perhaps you could use a dye to pinpoint the leak. Then run a section of the piling across it. You could also have hydraulic cement pumped in. Here is a link I found to other methods:

https://www.bigditch.com.au/dam-sealing/

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
I would have to convince the city, the HOA, raise the assessments, etc. Your idea is probably a $50,000 solution. It would never fly.

Why don't you stop carrying that chip around on your shoulder. Your beginning to look silly.

I've seen your posts in the political forums, and you're lecturing me on "silly" posts? That's asinine, but fitting.

Look around you. You're not on the political forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
Look around you. You're not on the political forum.

You're a proven hypocrite, liar, and coward no matter which board you're on.

Damn Grubbs, you have 16 posts and already proven yourself to be a DICK. There is a lot great information on this site if you can get along.

Kensco, Hope you get them stopped before they make themselves worse.
Not knowing anything about your soils there, but could it be unrelated to the tree root channels?
Any way to get clay out on the dam and worked down to where the trees were.

Is there any property downstream that can be damaged in the case of a catastrophic failure?

grubbs I know nothing about you other than your self introduction, but . . . BUT I do hope you find a forum to your liking somewhere.

Grubbs, your mom called and said your Spaghettio's
are getting cold. So put on some clothes and get out of the basement, OK? And clean your mess up too.

My house is downstream, although I believe only my outdoor living area is in what I consider the danger zone.

Just downstream from that is a second pond. That one overflows into a pretty good sized creek.

I can't come up with a better reason for the leak than old dead root systems. The city engineer was the first one to bring that idea up.

I can kick myself for one thing. When the old native hackberries started dying and being blown over in storms, I removed them and planted two fire maples on the dam face. I don't think they are going to create me problems, but when I'm gone the next owner is going to probably hate me.

I am probably going to watch the situation through the end of the year, then spend some money on the problem. I will need to get HOA and homeowner (6) permission. I'm inclined to get the company involved in pond management to spread a flocculant of some kind on the northeast corner of the pond (near where the hackberries were) and see if that works. I'm leaning towards https://www.bobluskoutdoors.co...eatment-2018-04-4254

I appreciate your ideas.

Grubbs,

Grow up or sober up. But mostly, just go away.

Ken, keep us posted. I'm still after a permanent cure for my 2-acre tank.

That is for sure an expensive problem to fix. Much as I would love some shade around the perimeter of my pond I won't allow trees along the dam portion.

You are probably going to have to drain/divert the water and have machinery come in and add bentonite to seal it back up.

A wise decision.

"You are probably going to have to drain/divert the water and have machinery come in and add bentonite to seal it back up." - That is the cruelest thing you've ever said to me..........but probably true.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
A wise decision.

"You are probably going to have to drain/divert the water and have machinery come in and add bentonite to seal it back up." - That is the cruelest thing you've ever said to me..........but probably true.

It was wise a week ago as well when you were informed of that.

Mr. Grubbs, what is the weather like right now in St. Petersburg? Some little piss ant comes along that joined here a few days ago and lectures the old timers, with profanity?
Go suck Putin's dick some more you fucker.

Are you drunk again?

Hi Ken.

First locate the area where it is leaking. A geophysicist can help you using either a self potential survey, a resistivity survey, or a electromagnetic survey. If the area is limited, there is a bentonite impregnated fabric that you lay on the bottom in the leak source area that will plug the leak. If it is s larger area, bentonite pellets spread across the bottom in that area may work to stop or greatly reduce the leak.

quote:

Originally posted by Grubbs:
Are you drunk again?

Sir, you are closer to the truth than you might imagine. I had a long day in the sun -- over 100 here, came home and drained five tall boys before seeing this. I'll put it right out there that I was out of line and inconsistent with the values I strive for, and I apologize.
Geez, here I am in the Miscellaneous Forum acting as though it was the PF ...

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
A wise decision.

"You are probably going to have to drain/divert the water and have machinery come in and add bentonite to seal it back up." - That is the cruelest thing you've ever said to me..........but probably true.

I wasn't intending to be cruel. It is the only way I have ever heard of that was effective to stop such a leak. I bet you have a very nice pond. Tree roots take a long time to rot. Seriously. Fix it right. No more trees on the dam!

Kensco, I had a similar situation that I remedied with bentonite, not by discing in, but by spreading on top of the water in the areas I suspected were leaking. The old timers (I guess I would qualify for that status now) around here used this method when I was a kid. I used 10-15 bags (if memory serves) and it stopped the leaks. It's been about 6 years and no more leaks. Pretty cheap to try.

quote:

Originally posted by NormanConquest:
I don't have a dog in this hunt but I will say that that is a very caustic comment on what I consider a reasonable question.

Exactly!

And whoever made the totally unnecessary comment is showing himself to be an idiot!

Nice way to join a forum!

All good ideas, thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by loud-n-boomer:
Hi Ken.

First locate the area where it is leaking. A geophysicist can help you using either a self potential survey, a resistivity survey, or a electromagnetic survey. If the area is limited, there is a bentonite impregnated fabric that you lay on the bottom in the leak source area that will plug the leak. If it is s larger area, bentonite pellets spread across the bottom in that area may work to stop or greatly reduce the leak.

Yep. At least the bentonite pellets if you can get an idea of the source of the leak. Not agricultural bentonite but pellets used in drilling etc.

Kensco, I should have added that I used Sodium Bentonite and not calcium bentonite, apparently a difference in how they work. I looked and I bought mine from a company in Cleburne (Texas Sodium Bentonite, at the time the product and shipping (only about 50 miles) costs was really reasonable for the results achieved. Wont hurt fish either, at least didn't hurt mine.

Sounds like what I'm looking for.

Blend the bentonite in with a augar drilled into the dam?

K Evans

I've got a new wrinkle. We added Aquashade https://www.appliedbiochemists.com/aquashade.html to the pond to dye it. We then waited for the dyed water to surface at my little aquifer about 100' downstream from the dam. Six days later no dye. The water is still running clear. It's not coming from the city, not through my water meter, nor through the dam. Hard to believe I have a spring or some subsurface tributary. The topography says that's not possible. Still scratching our head.

Hard to say without some pictures of the situation, but what I would consider is this.

If you have a source of clay on the property, Id get in a trencher and dig through the back quarter of the dam walls down to the solid base or a bit lower, then build up a compacted wall of clay through the trench.
You could start with the area of the tree roots and see if that fixes the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
K Evans

I've got a new wrinkle. We added Aquashade https://www.appliedbiochemists.com/aquashade.html to the pond to dye it. We then waited for the dyed water to surface at my little aquifer about 100' downstream from the dam. Six days later no dye. The water is still running clear. It's not coming from the city, not through my water meter, nor through the dam. Hard to believe I have a spring or some subsurface tributary. The topography says that's not possible. Still scratching our head.

That is a new wrinkle, the dye was a good idea. I thought I had a spring or seep between one of my ponds (tanks in Texas for those out-of-stater's), and a Farm to Market Road...always green grass even in August, I weed eater'ed the grass and water was slowly coming out of the ground. Checked for several days and it was still seeping. Turned out to be coming from an old community water line along the road that had been abandoned and apparently not shut off.