I got a question for the experienced folk on AR.

I have been looking on the internet at some hunting properties in TX that are collectively owned. Big ranches/properties subdivided into smaller parcels. A lot of these are high fenced.

The game is managed collectively with the help of professionals.

Do these make any sense - financial, hunting wise, ease to maintain, game management, poaching control and investment.

I know they are marked up that just buying and developing a ranch. But some of us dont have the time or want to tie up the capital.

An example

http://www.landsofamerica.com/...-Texas-76849/2901965

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.

Mike

At least 30% overpriced. Not to mention, who pays and how much for the "professional management". Finally, what keeps the game from being overhunted?

Not for me, ever.

Too many better places for the same money.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
At least 30% overpriced. Not to mention, who pays and how much for the "professional management". Finally, what keeps the game from being overhunted?

Not for me, ever.

Too many better places for the same money.

Thanks Gato

I had the same issues with someone over hunting.

I have also seen friends with fenced hunting places in MS have a lot of issues with poaching. Poachers cutting the fence to get in and kill trophy bucks.

Mike

If each tract is just under 100 acres, there will be m/l 20 tracts on 1900 acres. Add in wives, kids, etc. that's a lot of hunters on what is a fairly small total ranch.

Poaching can happen, but I think it's less common in Texas on high fenced properties. Does happen, but fairly rare. We've got a fair amount of poaching up here in E Tx, but, in our area, they are mostly shooting does, young bucks, etc. Doesn't really hurt the hunting. Matter of fact, I'd like them to kill some more does.

You can buy some nice places in semi-West Texas area with plenty of free ranging exotics for substantially less than $2000/acre. I'd think on the order of a sq. mile or so (640 acres) at a minimum if it were me. If you buy right, you'll be good. Just like in most investments, the buying right is the key, selling is easy if you're in right.

I'm not a realtor, have no interest in selling any given area, but right now there are some real bargains on the Rio Grande because of the wets problems. That will not last IMO, however it is solved, and in years to come, these places will
catch up. One of 1800 acres on river for $400/acres comes to mind. If it wasn't for wets would be worth several times that price. Also Edwards county (Rocksprings, etc) area have a lot of exotics. Just some examples.

Don't buy just on price, buy for it's recreational value which can mean that less desirable properties for ranching are slightly cheaper. Usually the cheapest are that way for a reason, but difficult terrain may make them good for hunting but less desirable to others. Hard to find in that area at a reasonable price, but surface water, even if seasonal, is a big plus for game. Consider whether electricity is on or available. Getting it to any given place if it is any distance is damn expensive. Same goes for water, whether by a well, windmill, etc. There are some great places on the Pecos River for sale, but they're large and that translates into mucho dinero. Also, just in case you're interested, places on the Pecos should be carefully checked for river access. Many of them you can look DOWN on the river, but you can't get there without a parachute.

Finally many properties have agricultural tax ratings. Be damn sure one you're considering does and be extra damn sure to maintain it. Otherwise, in some places (Val Verde County is one for sure) they will kill you on ad val taxes.

This isn't as big as I was talking about and almost certainly doesn't have electricity, but has promise (just by looking, have done absolutely no research on property)....http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/214-acres-in-Edwards-County-Texas/1798732

Make offers that are cheap but not ridiculous. All they can do is say "no".

Also many of these smaller properties have been subdivided from larger ones, you need to carefully consider your relationship to neighbors, their size, etc.

Finally, if you win the lottery, you might consider a place on the Devil's River, which is absolutely beautiful, and, IMO, if chosen properly as good as it gets in remote Texas. You also can get a fair amount of your money back by giving Conservation easements, but it will both severely restrict your usage (but not hunting) and future value.

If you've got cojones the size of baseballs (at a minimum) and can afford to lose it all if worst comes to worst, there are some unbelievable places for sale in Mexico for pennies on the dollar for what they would cost in Texas. Very careful research is a necessity and a close airport is a big plus.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
At least 30% overpriced. Not to mention, who pays and how much for the "professional management". Finally, what keeps the game from being overhunted?

Not for me, ever.

Too many better places for the same money.

Gato is spot on regarding this. There are better options if you are looking for hunting land, as he mentioned in another post, the area new the Rio Grande is not overpriced...but it can have a totally different set of problems. An acquaintance bought a fair size place near Eagle Pass and now wishes he hadn't due to the number of illegals and drug activity. Around Rocksprings is another option, but I've seen a lot of the medium and larger sized places are being broken up into 100 - 200 ac pastures. Some areas in East Texas are still reasonably priced; I would say the same about the area 80 to 100 miles south of Dallas but land prices have been going up very fast recently (although hunting land can still be found priced between $1900 and $2500 per acre, and cheaper if you are a cash buyer). I saw last week where a 300 ac ranch/farm in SE Oklahoma sold for $508.00 per acre, fair deer and turkey hunting in that area as well as some black bear...wish I had seen the sales offer before it sold.
Poaching is a problem just about anywhere in Texas, especially in areas where larger places have been cut up into 15 - 30 acre "ranchettes". Property lines and fences mean little to the owners of many of these ranchettes.

There are lots of websites with real estate listings, Landsoftexas is one that is searchable by county, but shows mostly properties listed by realtors. Zillow is another that is fairly easy to work through and it does show some places for sale by owner.

quote:

bought a fair size place near Eagle Pass and now wishes he hadn't due to the number of illegals and drug activity.

How big and how bad does he want out?

Gato: It's 2.5 sections (1600 ac), not sure he wants to get out, he just said he wished he hadn't bought it. But, I bet he would sell it if someone made a large enough offer

I'm not looking for someone who is not sure, I want someone who is desperate to sell......

After a few up close and personal run ins with dopers, he might have a more serious urge.

Lots of good info from Gato and Karl.

Thanks for your very experienced advice.

I really like Rocksprings and Edwards County. I hunted Axis deer there last summer.

Mike

quote:

Gatogordo: At least 30% overpriced.

I think far more than 30%. With a little looking you should should be able to buy around Junction for about $2500/ac, less for larger tracts.

What is cost of high fencing - rough guess is fine.

Thanks,

Mike

Like everything it depends, but if you figure $25K/mile you will be in the ballpark.

quote:

Beretta682E: What is cost of high fencing

I would not high fence a small tract.

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:

quote:

Beretta682E: What is cost of high fencing

I would not high fence a small tract.

What is considered a small tract?

Thanks

Mike

Depends on the area, but unless you're going to be in the deer raising business, I'd certainly think anything less that a sq. mile (640 acres) would be considered small for a high fence. Not that I'm going to high fence anything, but personally, I wouldn't do it on any less than 1000 acres minimum and probably wouldn't do it unless it was 2000 or more.

What is your reason for a high fence?

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
What is your reason for a high fence?

I am not a high fence guy - i like free range axis, blackbuck, pigs and can tolerate white tails.

I was asking because I wanted to get a feel for how much capital people had invested in the hunting ranches when they high fenced it working under the assumption that they would want to recoup capital invested.

Mike

Don't want to but in but there are some nice smaller ranches with lotsa game in the Brownwood Hamilton, Lampasas area. Plenty of cover, water Etc.

quote:

Originally posted by cooksey:
Don't want to but in but there are some nice smaller ranches with lotsa game in the Brownwood Hamilton, Lampasas area. Plenty of cover, water Etc.

Not butting in but it is providing me with information - I greatly appreciate that. Will keep an eye on those counties.

Mike

I don't know, but FWIW, I am not sure there are many, if any, axis free ranging in that area.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
I don't know, but FWIW, I am not sure there are many, if any, axis free ranging in that area.

I need axis. I will shoot the whitetails as vermin to have more axis.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
I don't know, but FWIW, I am not sure there are many, if any, axis free ranging in that area.

I need axis. I will shoot the whitetails as vermin to have more axis.

Mike

First of all, you'd be seriously breaking Tx game laws. Second, I don't really understand your fascination with axis, they are just another deer and good whitetails are much harder to come by. Third, if all you want is a source of axis meat, then buy a small fenced in property and raise them for harvest.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
I don't know, but FWIW, I am not sure there are many, if any, axis free ranging in that area.

I need axis. I will shoot the whitetails as vermin to have more axis.

Mike

First of all, you'd be seriously breaking Tx game laws. Second, I don't really understand your fascination with axis, they are just another deer and good whitetails are much harder to come by. Third, if all you want is a source of axis meat, then buy a small fenced in property and raise them for harvest.

Shooting the whitetails was a joke.

I have buddy who runs a exotic animal business in florida - non hunting - he deals it all the african stuff and some rare stuff Bongos and indian rhinos ect. Tied to zoos.

The amount of work he has to do to keep land clear in florida is crazy - cutting grass every day in summer. Another buddy moved from Zim to a cattle ranch in North Florida - he was shocked with how evasive nature is in florida.

I like the western hill country set up - the exotics are free roaming.

One axis would last me 2 years if I did not give the meat away to friends.

May be cheaper just to hunt in texas. I am hunting whitetails at xmas in TX - good excuse to get away from family stuff.

I just dont get crazy excited to hunt whitetails - I like too and I am unlucky as hell with whitetails. But I dont get buck fever. I wish i was hunting whitetails in SC instead of driving all over the gulf coast for work stuff.

Mike