I have been letting a freind cut fire wood for free for about 5 years.

Last fall the both of us went and cut about 4 pick loads total in 4 foot sections and laided them along the road to be picked up this spring.

I went out cut them into 16 inch sections this spring and hauled them to my place.

Today I called him up and told him lets go cut some fire wood and haul it to your place. I told him we well cut that tree and that tree.

He said where is the wood we cut last fall I told him I cut it up and hauled it home.

He got all mad at me because I took the wood from last fall.

Was I in the wrong for finshing cutting it then offering to help him cut more for himself.

Do you feel like you were wrong? Your wood. And you offered to help him with some more, not in my book. Some people just don't know how to reciprocate when you do them favors. "Entitlement" comes to mind.

In additional to entitlement, which seems to be a good descriptor in this case, I would add ungrateful.

I own some woodland, and have given away undesirable for harvest trees (but good firewood) on occasion.

Each and every recipient has later offered free farm labor to help out here.

You are certainly within all reasonable rights on this one.

Well, I don't think it is quite as cut and dried (pun intended) as others seem to think. Certainly you were within your rights to do what you did, but being within your legal rights is not always the only answer.

The key word, IMO, is friend. If he is a good friend, then the least I think you should have done is inform him that you were going to finish cutting the firewood that both of you harvested together and, if he chose, he could have helped and split the cord wood with you, then there would be no issue. Were you obligated to do so? Not legally but ethically, he was a friend who provided what sounds like a fair amount of labor to help cut and move the initial wood lengths. Sounds to me like his response was not the best, but then again, I might have been unhappy too post facto.

Yeah, I know they are your trees (dead or otherwise) but I think you know that you more or less violated an unspoken "deal" you have/had with your buddy. Wrong, I wouldn't say that, but if you felt "Right" about it, you probably wouldn't be asking.

I'm not being critical, I wasn't there and certainly don't know all the circumstances, what was said then or in the past, I'm just giving you my objective opinion based on my reaction to your story. If he's a good friend, I'd suggest a cookout, fishing trip or similar with you buying the beer, after an apology for not really thinking about the implications might be in order. It's your call, there's probably not a really "right" answer.

OTOH, if he is making a major issue out of what is a fairly small issue IMO, I well might tell him to go piss up a rope and find another place to cut wood in the future. Both of you should realize that friends are harder to find than wood, but it takes two to be friendly.

I have done allot of wood cutting. As I see it the 2 of you cut and moved lenghts for cutting/hauling off later. It should be 50/50 unless it was agreed differently back when the first work was done. Even if it was your land and trees. Yes you really own all of it but I think you stepped over the line of fair/friendship/your word when you took it all. Unless he had said he did not want the wood I think you owe him an I am sorry and some wood.

Also if in the future if you want all the wood do not ask him to come and help cut wood.

My 2 Cents

I think the guy is out of line. Especially since you called him and invited him to come onto your land and the two of you cut some of your treea for his use.
This is one of those deals, however, where a clear understanding on the front end would have avoided the problem. When he starts paying for his wood, I'll bet he gets over his snit in a hurry.

The sour grapes from your "friend' might have more to do with a perception that the newly felled trees you offered would/might be less well dried when it was burnt.
I assume this is the intent in felling the trees in fall to collect them and further prepare them in the next spring.


You are well within your rights as a landowner
...........marginal as a friend with the original intent to share the felled timber.

No big deal & a storm in a teacup if the trees you intend to drop as replacements are dead.
........what you did is neither here nor there in the latter case.......you are both going to cut the timber he is going to use.......its just a different set of trees he will be burning.

the road of friendship always has bumpy sections , real friends put it behind them
......if one can't he's not a REAL friend.
Real friends don't worry if its a 50;50 split or a 70;30 split when one of them is getting something for nothing.........especially if their takehome share is sufficient for their needs

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Well, I don't think it is quite as cut and dried (pun intended) as others seem to think. Certainly you were within your rights to do what you did, but being within your legal rights is not always the only answer.

The key word, IMO, is friend. If he is a good friend, then the least I think you should have done is inform him that you were going to finish cutting the firewood that both of you harvested together and, if he chose, he could have helped and split the cord wood with you, then there would be no issue. Were you obligated to do so? Not legally but ethically, he was a friend who provided what sounds like a fair amount of labor to help cut and move the initial wood lengths. Sounds to me like his response was not the best, but then again, I might have been unhappy too post facto.

Yeah, I know they are your trees (dead or otherwise) but I think you know that you more or less violated an unspoken "deal" you have/had with your buddy. Wrong, I wouldn't say that, but if you felt "Right" about it, you probably wouldn't be asking.

I'm not being critical, I wasn't there and certainly don't know all the circumstances, what was said then or in the past, I'm just giving you my objective opinion based on my reaction to your story. If he's a good friend, I'd suggest a cookout, fishing trip or similar with you buying the beer, after an apology for not really thinking about the implications might be in order. It's your call, there's probably not a really "right" answer.

OTOH, if he is making a major issue out of what is a fairly small issue IMO, I well might tell him to go piss up a rope and find another place to cut wood in the future. Both of you should realize that friends are harder to find than wood, but it takes two to be friendly.

I couldn't have said it better. Stuff like this is why I no longer cut firewood with other people, it just never works out.

If you value the friendship, figure a way to make up, and get over it. In this case it doesn't matter who's right or wrong. Your conscience has spoken to you, or you wouldn't be worried about it.

IMO, the friendship is more valuable than the wood, egos, or who is right or wrong. Perhaps being humble would be a good start.

You could just say that at the time you didn't give it much thought, and appologize for that lapse, but now that you see it mattered to him, suggest again your offer to cut more wood.

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
Stuff like this is why I no longer cut firewood with other people, it just never works out.

I've cut firewood with friends many times, and it has always worked out. It ain't the firewood that's the problem. IMO, if you are too ornary to share firewood, then you deserve to have to cut it alone. Where's the fun in that?

KB

Actually I'm one of the least ornry people you'll ever meet. Also one of the most sharing.

quote:

Today I called him up and told him lets go cut some fire wood and haul it to your place.

I dont see the big deal. You called him and said lets go cut you some wood and get it to your house. he didnt show up to cut some of the previously cut stuff to find it gone, and waste a day or a plan, etc. he had a hair cross his arse for some reason, and should have cooled off and been reasonable later I'd think. It's to his benefit to get along with you.

Stop all the bullsh-- and get the wood cut, split, hauled, dumped, stacked and covered for drying.

Seems to me you know the answer to your question, or you wouldn't ask. You are getting your land cleared for a very cheap price. Is year old seasoned wood more desirable than fresh cut? I suspect so. If you have any of the seasoned wood left, offer him half of that and you each take half of this years fresh cut--then you are equal. If he doesn't accept that, then it's time to tell him what he can do with a rope. BTW what type chainsaw you use?

quote:

. Is year old seasoned wood more desirable than fresh cut

The wood was cut last fall he said, sat through the winter rain/snow so wouldnt be enough ahead of cut and split stuff this spring to worry about. Cut the trees, let them lay until the leaves wilt, they will suck out as much moisture as the wood can give up. Stack it after it gets to his house and he's good to go this fall/winter. He's making way to big a deal out of this!

Are you really talking about a friend, or are you talking about an an acquaintance? There is a sizeable difference, even if the acquaintanceship is long standing.

If he was concerned about his "sweat investment" in the wood, did he ever call to offer to help you buck it, split it, and get his perceived share out of the way, etc?

Doesn't sound as if he did. I suspect that rather than a friend, he may be a person who views your acquantanceship as an amicable direct route to free wood.

Also, if you guys were actually close friends, I'd think you'd be talking fairly regularly, and one of the subjects which might have come up would have been something like your saying "Hey, Ed, it's time to get that wood we cut last fall split, stacked, and drying for next fall. Things are looking good for me to do that next weekend, how about you?" Or he might have asked when you intended to finish your mutual wood harvest?

Anyway, I got 22 years of free wood from my neighbor's ranch, and we never had any such problems...in fact, he regularly sold wood to another mutual friend of both of us who was a "professional" firewood supplier., He charged him because it wasn't for that friend's own use. He didn't charge me because it was for winter heat for my wife and I.

BUT, I never lost sight of the fact that he COULD charge me the same $75 per cord (Madrone) and $65 per cord (Oak) he charged our professional woodcutter friend. So I constantly supplied him and his kids with ammo for hunting season, gun "consulting" (No longer had my FFL so I couldn't engage in licensed "gunsmithing".), and his eldest boy and I sometimes hunted deer together in an area we liked which was about 400 miles away. I did the driving in my rig and paid for the fuel.

My own view is that you don't owe him squat, and that if you guys were actually friends who "hung" together at all, neither of you would be in this situation.

I'd suggest making the offer for wood cutting this year one more time, and then before weilding an axe or saw even one more stroke, lay out the arrrangment clearly. If he doesn't like what he hears, offer to cut it yourself and charge him $150 a cord for it which is about what the going retail price is these days in the Pacific NW where there is LOTS of wood available and prices aren't particularly high. It is about double that or more here in central Arizona where there isn't a lot of wood everywhere you look.

If he gets angry and walks away, I doubt you have lost much other than a smiling leech.

AC,
You would have been welcome here on my place anytime for wood or hunting with your attitude!

You took advantaged of his labor and time for your own greed.

quote:

You took advantaged of his labor and time for your own greed.

Do you have a beef with P dog shooter, not read the post or are you just an a$$?

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
You took advantaged of his labor and time for your own greed.

Damn right! He went to his house and drug him out of bed and held a pistol on him whilst he worked. And he charged him a dollar for the boloney sandwich he let him eat on his only break of the day.
I've had guys that didn't have a fireplace nor a wood burner go with me to cut wood just for the chance to get outdoors and do some "guy" stuff. I did give them a soda to drink with their single slice, baloney sandwich but only one and I charged them for it.


Norseman, I hope your post was tongue in cheek.

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
You took advantaged of his labor and time for your own greed.

That and the other 5 winters worth of wood he already had off the property.

send him a bill for the wood he cut in the passed I would have already told him to piss off find somewhere else to get free wood. but thats just me and i dont like people much

If I got to heat my home for 5 years on someone else's ticket, I would not be whining over some cut wood like a little liberal entitlement bitch and go cut some more on the offer. Has he come over to work off the free bees in other methods, or just looking for free shit. He is not much of a pal if he whines over such simple shit.

I helped a retired neighbor several years ago cut up a large Oak that was hit by lightning and had about half of the tree on the ground. We AGREED on splitting everything on the halves, gas, oil log splitter and the wood. Neither one of us had a splitter so we were going to rent one. Since he was quite a bit older than I, I worked at it twice as hard so he wouldn’t have to, did not want him to have a heart attack on me.

I brought two trailer loads of wood home and had two piles, one for splitting and another that would burn just fine without splitting. I came home from work one day and the entire pile of the small stuff was gone?????

After I had been home for about an hour, my neighbor called and told me he had come over with his trailer and loaded up “his half” of the wood and had taken it home.

Needlessly, I never asked him about splitting the other half or what we had agreed on. Several years went by and he finally asked me if I had a bur under my blanket about something and I said yep, the firewood and he replied that I was acting childish. I told him that if you give your word to someone on anything you should honor it unlike you had done sneaking over when I am not home and getting ALL the small stuff.

I found it is cheaper now just to hire some help when I cut fire wood. Cheaper in the long run and a whole lot less hassle, just give them a few Tacos and Mexican Strawberries everything is fine.

I agree with every word Gato wrote above.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Well, I don't think it is quite as cut and dried (pun intended) as others seem to think. Certainly you were within your rights to do what you did, but being within your legal rights is not always the only answer.

The key word, IMO, is friend. If he is a good friend, then the least I think you should have done is inform him that you were going to finish cutting the firewood that both of you harvested together and, if he chose, he could have helped and split the cord wood with you, then there would be no issue. Were you obligated to do so? Not legally but ethically, he was a friend who provided what sounds like a fair amount of labor to help cut and move the initial wood lengths. Sounds to me like his response was not the best, but then again, I might have been unhappy too post facto.

Yeah, I know they are your trees (dead or otherwise) but I think you know that you more or less violated an unspoken "deal" you have/had with your buddy. Wrong, I wouldn't say that, but if you felt "Right" about it, you probably wouldn't be asking.

I'm not being critical, I wasn't there and certainly don't know all the circumstances, what was said then or in the past, I'm just giving you my objective opinion based on my reaction to your story. If he's a good friend, I'd suggest a cookout, fishing trip or similar with you buying the beer, after an apology for not really thinking about the implications might be in order. It's your call, there's probably not a really "right" answer.

OTOH, if he is making a major issue out of what is a fairly small issue IMO, I well might tell him to go piss up a rope and find another place to cut wood in the future. Both of you should realize that friends are harder to find than wood, but it takes two to be friendly.

I agree with your interpretation of this

What has been resolved P Dog Shooter?

He said he not cutting fire with me any more.

We still talk weekly about other things.

That'd work for me.

Well that's good new's for you P dog shooter.

Wasbeeman,

just to let you know, it was NOT tongue in the cheek, I guess your culture is different on the east coast, we don't tolerate that here in Oregon.

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
You took advantaged of his labor and time for your own greed.

Hang on a second, how is it greedy when you have been supplying someone for years with your own wood??

Apologize, and if he is any kind of a real friend, he will get over it. JMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
Well that's good new's for you P dog shooter.

Wasbeeman,

just to let you know, it was NOT tongue in the cheek, I guess your culture is different on the east coast, we don't tolerate that here in Oregon.

It seems that our culture is quite a bit different from yours. I don't presume to speak for everyone on the east coast but since you speak for everyone on the west coast, why don't you tell us a little bit about the west coast culture and what you wouldn't tolerate.
What would you suggest? That the poor, put-upon receiver of free wood should kick the owner's ass? And then cut wood when and if he wanted? I don't know about your culture on the west coast but in my culture, that might get a healthy load of #4s right up your ass.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
Well that's good new's for you P dog shooter.

Wasbeeman,

just to let you know, it was NOT tongue in the cheek, I guess your culture is different on the east coast, we don't tolerate that here in Oregon.

It seems that our culture is quite a bit different from yours. I don't presume to speak for everyone on the east coast but since you speak for everyone on the west coast, why don't you tell us a little bit about the west coast culture and what you wouldn't tolerate.
What would you suggest? That the poor, put-upon receiver of free wood should kick the owner's ass? And then cut wood when and if he wanted? I don't know about your culture on the west coast but in my culture, that might get a healthy load of #4s right up your ass.

Amen to that, wasbeeman, the wood isn't an entitlement.

It's simple,

mean what you say when you say it, no if's, but, maybe or perhap's! Might as well be a politician.

We call those flake's or wishy washy.

I cut and split at least 10 cords a year for primary heat source in my home and shop, it's takes a good year or 2 for split firewood to seasoned.

Bottom line,
character is what count along with honesty.

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
It's simple,

mean what you say when you say it, no if's, but, maybe or perhap's!

ROFLMAO!!!! You aren't serious are you?? That may be your culture but from everything I've seen and read about the left coast, its "culture" ain't even remotely like that.
BTW, I find that wood cut in the winter, stacked and seasoned over summer works very well in a stove and, depending on the wood, in a fire place. But then, I always lived where the sun shines once in a while.

quote:

I find that wood cut in the winter, stacked and seasoned over summer works very well in a stove and, depending on the wood, in a fire place.

Wasbeeman,
I live where the sun only shines once in awhile it seems, but that still works here.
I cut over 100 cord a year for my use and for sale, I think I have the hang of it by now.

wasbeeman,

I doubt you've been to Oregon or Idaho,
we wpuldn't tolerate your attitude or selfish thinking.
Come on out to Oregon and visit Danner, Rome or Homedale. We got alot of sand dogs.

quote:

I doubt you've been to Oregon or Idaho,

Norseman,
I lived in Idaho for a stretch, still have many friends there I visit. I called two of them last night and read parts of this thread to them. They dont agree with your take on things, or how you would come up with such.
Makes me wonder if your reading into what happened differant then everyone else? happens that way on-line it seems.

I've never been to OR except as a summer tourist. There and SEa. But I've been to a lots of other places and what I've found is people are people. No place has a lock on good nor bad. And as a rule, the ones that profess to be the most righteous are the ones that will stab you in the back the quickest.
If you're trying to tell me that where you live there aren't some folks that would steal the pennies off of a dead man's eyes if they thought they could get away with it, you are indeed living somewhere I have never lived nor visited.

BTW, "would not tolerate your attitude or selfishness..." come on guy, it was his wood, and the other fellow had been getting FREE wood for years. IMO, it would not have been out of line to tell the the free loader, "you cut it and split it and we'll divide it". I think the idea of "entitlements" has clouded people's minds as to what is actually charity.

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
You took advantaged of his labor and time for your own greed.

How do you feel after voting for Obama?

Another question would be how much is the wood worth and how much is the labor worth.

Thats is easy to figure wood is 85 dollars a cord here for good fire wood.

If ones hourly wage is 10 dollars a hr then it takes 8.5 hrs of work to come out even per cord.

If one makes 20 dollars and hour then its 4.025 hrs to break even.

It took us 3.5 hrs to cut the wood I supplied half the labor,tractor to skid it,Truck to haul it and the wood.

My freind makes less then 10 dollars a hr so even at 10 an hr at 1.75 hrs thats thats 17.5 dollars. Thats about 20 percent of a cord.

I can assure you he recived a lot more value in wood over the years then in labor given even at twice the wage he makes.