I went to an orthopedic surgeon last week. My left knee has been killing me periodically for a month or so. I thought I had torn my meniscus during a workout at a gym, then aggravated it by continuing to play golf, bowling, etc. The surgeon said it was arthritis. He told me to tolerate the pain as long as I can, and then come back in for gel injections when the pain starts seriously affecting my lifestyle.

I've spoken to a few people who have had gel injections, surgeries, replacements, and for the most part they say the gel injections don't work. In theory, I should have the injections every six months, and if I can't make it six months, have a cortisone injection to bridge the gap since gel injections are covered by insurance only at six month intervals.

That's my story. What has been your experience?

...and the part about my meniscus? He said, "of course your meniscus is torn. At your age everyone has a torn or partially torn meniscus. If you were a 24 year old pro athlete, we would fix that". Thanks a lot.

I am 46 and mine have started to hurt when I run and when I jump down from anything over 18 inches.

I need to lose 30 pounds.

I took my dad to his orthopedic surgeon and he asked me to lose weight and come back and gets checked up in 6 months.

Between 42 and 46 I have seen a massive drop of in my ability to run.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
I went to an orthopedic surgeon last week. My left knee has been killing me periodically for a month or so. I thought I had torn my meniscus during a workout at a gym, then aggravated it by continuing to play golf, bowling, etc. The surgeon said it was arthritis. He told me to tolerate the pain as long as I can, and then come back in for gel injections when the pain starts seriously affecting my lifestyle.

I've spoken to a few people who have had gel injections, surgeries, replacements, and for the most part they say the gel injections don't work. In theory, I should have the injections every six months, and if I can't make it six months, have a cortisone injection to bridge the gap since gel injections are covered by insurance only at six month intervals.

That's my story. What has been your experience?

...and the part about my meniscus? He said, "of course your meniscus is torn. At your age everyone has a torn or partially torn meniscus. If you were a 24 year old pro athlete, we would fix that". Thanks a lot.

You need to check out and thus, support a small company I own a fairly large position of stock in, Vericel (vcel). Relatively new product on market might help in the future. Note: this is in no way a stock rec. although, of course, I like it or I wouldn't own 25K+ shares of it, but it ain't a retiree, widow, or orphan stock.

I would also STRONGLY suggest you get a second opinion about cause and about fixing it.

quote:

You need to check out and thus, support a small company I own a fairly large position of stock in, Vericel (vcel).

This will certainly be how knees/joints are saved in the future. I wonder what level of deterioration limits the effectiveness of the treatment?

I x-ray knees on a regular basis for an orthopedic surgeon. It is amazing the pain tolerance some people have. The downside of that is they completely destroy their joints. If you are getting replacement I suppose it doesn't matter.

It doesn't sound like you have gotten a true examination yet?? Second opinions are great. The 'typical' course of treatment is pretty standard.

If you end up needing replacement look for someone who does a lot of the operations. Be leery of someone who teaches people. You may end up being the guinea pig.

Tom

I tore my left meniscus when in my late 50s and you bet an ortho surgeon fixed it.

I have been getting Synvisc injections every year for the last 4 years. For me, it works very well.

http://www.synviscone.com

In 1979 I injured my left knee on a jump. Went to see the doctor. Said something about a partially torn something or other. Said to cut is to cure. My only question was how soon after the operation I could be back on status. He said never. I said see ya.

For the remainder of my career and up until now it has caused me pain. A couple of times I have gotten cortisone injections that helped. Mostly when it gets real bad I take a Motrin 800mg. Sometimes I have to use a cane on a long walk especially on concrete.

That's it. I live with it. I have seen some of the results of surgeries and maybe when "Bones" can beam me up I'll consider letting him do something.

Wife had double knee replacements 6 years ago. tough to keep up with the old gal, we do a fair amount of hiking and she rides as well as ever. The ultimate fix.

Grizz

Very interesting company Gato. Sounds like a product whose time has come. You couldn't tell me about it fifteen years ago? "Safety and effectiveness of MACI in patients over the age of 55 years have not been established." It's a cruel world out there. I feel the guinea pig syndrome coming on.

Will probably get a second opinion in the next thirty days. Right AFTER the hogs go nocturnal.

Smokin Joe, thanks for sharing your experience. I needed to hear that. I had been looking at that website.

If you have it done, take a bullet to bite on while it's being injected.
Also, flex your knees a few times before you get on your feet...it feels like your knees are full of gravel for a few minutes.

Dad was an ortho.....I'm a surgeon too. Once you have "bone on bone" meaning you have end stage OA you live with it as long as you can or just get the joint replaced. Yes, injections can palliate but lose efficacy eventually. A torn meniscus is a different animal.....middle age and up the most recent studies show arthroscopic "repair" is as effective as rest and altering your activity. I have torn menisci in both knees and haven't had anything done for the intermittent discomfort. Unless you're seeing a real doofus hack, arthritic knees is an all day everyday thing for orthos.....no need to rush to surgery unless the pain is constant or the joint is unstable.

If you need a joint replacement have it done by a high volume guy at a high volume center.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
Smokin Joe, thanks for sharing your experience. I needed to hear that. I had been looking at that website.

I'm glad it's working for him, but reading on line, I would be EXTREMELY hesitant to have that stuff injected into my knee. The downside seems significant.

I went to the gym today. I backed off a little on the leg presses, and curls. I thought a few times the knee was going to bite me, but finished-up OK, and feel alright this afternoon. I'm just going to live my life for now. Got golf tomorrow, shooting Thursday, bowling Friday; livin' life in the fast lane.

I spoke to my younger brother, his knees are in worse shape than mine. He hasn't done cortisone or gel injections. His doctor doesn't recommend stem cell yet; too experimental I guess. He's staring at knee replacement at some point. Right now he says he can walk if he doesn't straighten his legs, or bend his legs. That doesn't sound like walking to me. He says he can still dance if he doesn't straighten his legs. That doesn't sound like dancing to me. He says he can't run, so I guess if there is one beer left in the fridge, I've got a good chance it's mine.

No downside to the injections if done properly. It either works or not. Cortisone or visco supplementation sometimes buys some time.

My knees were so bad that in 1968 after the Tet Offensive if you could walk,talk,and did not drool uncontrably the US Army was drafting you. I could not pass the physical exam. Fast forward to 2007 and I am to the point that walking is excruciatingly painful, so off to see the surgeon who fixed my back. His recommendation, complete replacement of the knee. Five days in the hospital, walking two hours after surgery, and then rehab. My pain is virtually gone(minor twinges on occasion)and I am mobile again. The next year, the left knee is bad. Another replacement but if I could do It again, I would do both at the same time. You MUST do the rehab and walk as much as possible and you will be OK. Not perfect but OK. Jerry Hoover

I had my left lateral meniscus removed, my left lateral colateral ligament repaired, my left ACL repaired (Modified Andrews), Cadaver graft to repair my left ACL and PCL and three arthroscopic repairs for meniscus and bone spur removals.

The Gel injections lasted about 4 months in 2011 and let me hunt Buffalo in Zimbabwe but getting the knee replaced in 2012 was the only way to relieve the constant pain.

My beautiful wife was having knee problems and elected to have the gel injections after watching me rehab. They seem to be working for her, but the skill of the person doing the injections is paramount. Jerry Hoover

Jerry,wishing you + your wife the best on this.There are some of the best doctors in Round Rock (you go to Georgetown Hospital to die).

I had a buffalo hunt when I found out that I was bone on bone in both knees. I tried the injections, but they didn't work for me - I heard that the response is idiosyncratic in that they work well for some and not for others.

Anyway, not being able to get the replacements long enough before the hunt, I went with cortisone injections just before I left and that worked well enough. I survived a long, 2-day followup.

The replacements were done 3 weeks apart in Durango by a an ortho who had worked for the Denver Broncos. I am ecstatic that I did it - the folks at work tell me I am a far easier person to work with now that I have no knee pain.

Three years after the surgery I was quail hunting in southern NM this last February. Hiked my rear end off. Shot an elk two years ago in the Sangre de Cristos.

If you are bone on bone, the replacements are miracles.

Chuck, how old are you?

I am bone on bone on one side of each knee. Have had two high tibial osteotomies. Not fun but too young for a knee replacement. I am 55 and had one done 10yrs ago and the other 6yrs ago.

What are these injections? I had hoped for advances in replacement cartridge by now...

I'm 63. My knees were bad that enough no one tried to tell me to wait, though i was at an age where that was a possible response. I must have been 58 or 59 when I started planning the surgery. You sound as bad as I was

The injections are some pseudo-synovial fluid, perhaps the gel referred to above. What I was told is that the response is idiosyncratic in terms of both effect and duration - if it works for you, it might work for a month, 6 months, or a year. For me, it just didn't work more than a couple of weeks, if that.

One thing to consider - the new replacement knees are supposed to last 35 years now rather than the 25 of just a few years ago. If you live to 90, there might be a pretty painful problem, but if they truly last 35 years you might be fine. My grandmother had her knees done, i think it was still in the 1960s. They told her they would last about 10 years and they were right. She had it done again and the estimate was 25 years. She died with those knees.

There is some talk that stem cell therapy is working for this. I don't believe they do it in the US. One friend went to Costa Rica for his shoulder and he was please with the result. I know very little about the efficacy of stem cells for cartilage for humans. FWIW, In dogs, it seems its 50/50 whether or not it works. Just a thought for another alternative.

Bone on bone is NOT fun, I sympathize! Been there!

I hope this might help some of you.

It is my own experience, and have no idea if will work for you.

I am 67 years old, and many years ago I started getting pain in all my joints every day I wake up.

I saw several doctors, and all of them were saying that this is just the price one pays for being very active, and of course, getting older.

One suggested that I should try taking glucosamine, and large doses of Omega 3,6 and 9 fish oils.

I followed his advice, and a few weeks later I have no join pain whatsoever.

I have been following that ever since.

I can walk for miles without any trouble at all.


I enjoy walking, and do walk quite a bit whenever I get the chance.

Weight might also be an advantage, as I weigh 60-62 kgs.

Last year I walked almost 3,700 km.

Interesting.

I had someone today ask if I was taking any Omega 3. Glucosamine has been touted for some time. My wife got off Omega 3 because she was bruising. She was taking a daily baby aspirin.

I may add both to my regime. I took a 1000mg Omega-3 capsule a few minutes ago. They recommend 3000mg daily.

I'll get me some glucosamine sulfate, but not combined with the Chondroitin. What I read says I may not see any results for 6 to 8 weeks. They say a typical dosage is 500mg three times a day.

Check out that company that Gato mentioned earlier; Vericel Corp. Notice their product portfolio. http://vcel.com/product-portfolio/

I'll try anything as long as it's not too crazy.

quote:

I'll try anything as long as it's not too crazy.

Don't start fibbing in your dotage, you tried all those SA women and you can't get any crazier than that.

I had to have a complete replacement of my left knee in 2006 at 55 years old. At that point the Dr. said that I would probably have to have the right knee replaced in a couple of years.

I will be 67 this September and have no problem with either of my knees. Once I got the bad one fixed it took all the pressure off the good knee.

I am still overweight, but have been for about 50 years, but the best thing I ever did was having the knee replaced, the therapy hurt, but I went thru it and will probably never have to have the right knee worked on.

The only medicine I take is a pill at bed time for my blood pressure and one in the morning for my cholesterol and one multivitamin.

If you don't need the knee replaced, don't do it, but if you do, do it and get it over with and you will be better off.

When I had mine done, I knew there would be pain, but I also knew that once the surgery was done and I went thru the physical therapy, the pain would be gone.

The pain I had before the surgery would not go away.

Just a note CHC. I take my blood pressure medication in the morning and my cholesterol medication at night. You might ask your doctor. I was told the blood pressure medication at night would make me get up more often to pee. Diuretic I believe.

I won't lie, I'm a little averse to knee surgery because I had a coworker die a few years ago, less than 24 hours after knee surgery. A blood clot. He was 58. I go for surgery when I've run out of available options.

The glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM combo does work if the joints are not worn too bad. It does take a while. Liquid supliments work faster.
Also check your arches. Most of the knee problems I see in practice are caused by flat arches. Weight is also a big contributor.

quote:

I won't lie, I'm a little averse to knee surgery because I had a coworker die a few years ago, less than 24 hours after knee surgery. A blood clot. He was 58. I go for surgery when I've run out of available options.

You are a very wise man. A little known and even less advertised FACT is that well over 1% of the patients who check into a hospital DIE from something totally unrelated to the reason they went to the hospital. Hospitals cure and kill, a fine place to avoid if at all possible.

quote:

An estimate of 440,000 deaths from care in hospitals "is roughly one-sixth of all deaths that occur in the United States each year," James wrote in his study. He also cited other research that's shown hospital reporting systems and peer-review capture only a fraction of patient harm or negligent care.

Let me expand on my previous post.
A GOOD glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM suppliment can help.
Keep in mind that there is a lot of junk suppliments out there.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

I won't lie, I'm a little averse to knee surgery because I had a coworker die a few years ago, less than 24 hours after knee surgery. A blood clot. He was 58. I go for surgery when I've run out of available options.

You are a very wise man. A little known and even less advertised FACT is that well over 1% of the patients who check into a hospital DIE from something totally unrelated to the reason they went to the hospital. Hospitals cure and kill, a fine place to avoid if at all possible.

quote:

An estimate of 440,000 deaths from care in hospitals "is roughly one-sixth of all deaths that occur in the United States each year," James wrote in his study. He also cited other research that's shown hospital reporting systems and peer-review capture only a fraction of patient harm or negligent care.

Oh, great. I am having an L-5 laminectomy next week.

If it is any consolation, we'll all blame Gato if things go wrong, and we don't hear from you next week.

Hell, why not blame me, my wife blames me for everything anyway, what's one more?

You've got broad shoulders.

Kensco, have you had BBQ with Charlie?

Not really, he's such a wuss, he probably wants his cooked.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Not really, he's such a wuss, he probably wants his cooked.

Intelligence developed in humans after they learnt to cook their meat.

Only stone age man eats his meat uncooked.

It is one of my best friend's wisdom sayings.

He also says long hair drains your brain.

That is why women have no brains

Charlie used to come my way occasionally and have a BBQ lunch. At least I used to read that he did. We missed making a connection one day. He called. I was playing golf. The SOB took me off his list. Just like that. I was going to buy. I swear. Except for my alligator arms that won't reach far enough to get my wallet out of my pocket. But if it wasn't for that, I would buy.

I also avoid golfers, they always want to tell you how they hit their balls. I don't care about their balls.

Gato, Kensco, I had no idea you boys were such close friends!