The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Other Topics Miscellaneous Topics Social Security Head-FakeGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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When I retired in 2012 at 65 3/4, the first question I asked when I got back to the States was whether any income I made after retirement would affect my Social Security benefit. The exact response at the Social Security office was, "no, make a million dollars. You will keep receiving your SS benefit". So, my wife and I started taking our SS benefits. For three years they were consistently paid every month. This year my wife hit 65 and qualified for Medicare. My Social Security "check" dropped $221.10 a month, and my wife's dropped $462.90 a month. How can that be, I thought? I received a letter explaining it, but I wanted to hear it in person, so I went to the Social Security office this morning. They confirmed that my SS benefit had NOT been reduced. (Must be an optical illusion.) What is happening is that our SS benefit remains the same, BUT, based on our income we have to pay a higher premium for our Medicare Part B, and our prescription drug coverage. In other words, we are subsidizing the medical and drug costs of others less fortunate. So as the old fable goes, the ants keep paying for the grasshoppers' failure to plan. (I think I'm supposed to feel compassion and charity along about now.) Anyway, all is not lost. Every year they (the SS administration) looks back at the previous two years and recalculates how much they are going to "reduce" our SS benefits that "can never be reduced no matter what we earn". If you are approaching retirement, but plan on working after, get ready for the old head-fake. Nothing in this world is free, no matter how old you are. | ||
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Apparently you are at fault. You did not read the fine print....you know, the fine print at the bottom of the Obamacare pamphlet. The joke is on you. | |||
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What is the relationship between Social Security and Obamacare? You lost me. | |||
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No semi-educated adult I know would willing contribute to a known ponzi scheme BUT for some reason those same people will hand their money over to the Gov't ponzi scheme no questions ask. I have zero sympathy for anyone getting screwed out of thier social security, you shouldn't have given the gov't your money to begin with since everyone who has ever read a thing about social security knows that the money is gone and it is a 120 trillion dollar unfunded liability. The only reason that social security is allowed to continue is because it is run by the gov't, if it was any private investment the people at the top would have gone to prison by now and the investors would be looking at a lifetime class action lawsuit that ends with nobody getting anything. To sum up...QUIT your Bitchin you don't actually deserve a penny since your money was spent before you ever contributed it. You should have known better than to invest in the gov't ponzi scheme. | |||
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Good luck grasshopper. | |||
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No luck involved, social security has always been voluntary, so I don't volunteer. I prefer to put my money in a diversified porfolio of investments, it doesn't guarantee my retirement but it does guarantee that I am not contributing to a broken gov't run ponzi scheme. I would say good luck to you but as you've now noticed the gov't is already screwing you and your wife. | |||
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I will bet at 65 if you are living in the US you will go sign up for Medicare. Social security works cause the underlying base - population is growing. The entitlements are easy to control - just move retirement age up. It's a pyramid structure. http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com...social-security.html Mike | |||
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Well you will lose that bet then because it would be a federal felony for me to try to apply for any benefits that stem from the Social security programs. I'm more than happy to pay my own way in this world and rely on my own investments to cover me. It's 120 trillion dollar unfunded liabililty that is due in the next 15 years, no amount of poulation growth will cover that amount of liability. You had better get congress to move the retirement age up to 110 years old or the system is screwed. | |||
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I do not believe the government views Social Security payments as being voluntary or optional except in certain cases. As an example some states allow teachers to pay in their own retirement, another example is clergy can opt out. As an employer I am required to deduct and match payments for Social Security for myself and all of my employees. The government does not see the humor in us not sending our payments weekly. Would you please cite the law stating Social Security is optional. If I had the 15% I have donated the last 36 years I could retire today. | |||
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What private health insurance exists that covers people over 65 - everything I saw fell back on Medicare including most corporate plans. http://www.consumerreports.org...-insurance/index.htm The unfunded social security is a function of life expectancy. Hate to break bad news but we will not have 110 life expectancy. Move the retirement date up address most of unfunded liabilities. Basically it tells you the payouts are declining to social security. But Medicare is untouchable. Mike | |||
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MikeBurke, You are asking me to prove a negative, so let me state it a different way. There is no law anywhere that requires an individual to get a social security number. There are of course laws that require employers to withhold certain taxes including social security but those don't apply to individuals only employers. If you believe that there is a law requiring every U.S. Citizen to have a social security number all you have to do is ask the simple question why doesn't the gov't force all the Amish to have a social security number? There are a lot of groups in this country who don't contribute to social security such as state and local employees, most railroaders are on railroad retirement fund(10 or more years employed), clergy as you mentioned, amish, some mennonites, some muslims, many unions are exempt, congress critters and many more groups... Don't take my word for it, do the research, you might be amazed what you discover. Social Security is contained in U.S. Code Title 42, it's a long read and you will need a good law dictionary(I recommend Blacks) but it is worth it to educate yourself. When you get through the actual law concering social security then you can move on to the C.F.R.. Code Federal Regulations that's where the SSA and IRS make up(I mean regulate) how the law is applied. You can find this statement on the SSA website: The Assistant Commissioner of Social Security stated: "The Social Security Act does not require a person to have a Social Security number (SSN) to live and work in the United States, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one." Beretta, it's called sarcasm...I know we won't live to 110 but that's what the retirement age would have to be raised to for the unfunded liability to be met. Meaning everyone would have to pay in and no one would live long enough(110y.o.) to receive any benefits. Apparently that went right over your head. | |||
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I am already tied into the system to I will be in social security medicare world. But how does one pay federal income tax without a social security number? Another reason I asked the question was I was not able to find anyone willing to sell my Mom insurance between 64-65 years. The market just did not exist. I also have serious issues with health care cost in the US. Unless one has a net wealth of over tens of millions it is near impossible to self insure medical cost in the US. One hospital visit for anything major can destroy a lifetime of savings. How someone can self fund healthcare in the US is always interesting to me cause the medical system is not set up for self funding. I get the age issue in social security. But I also see a world of 2% bonds in US and negative rates around the world. Not exactly a great setup to generate significant return on capital. Mike | |||
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MikeBurke, Just for you incase you ever hire someone and then they refuse to give a SSN: Do I have to give my employer my SSN? Answer: No. Employment is a form of contractual agreement. If the terms of employment include a requirement that the employee must supply their social security number then there are basically four options available: 1) supply the requested SSN; 2) ask to work out another arrangement where the SSN isn't required; 3) don't work for that company; or, 4) sue the business in court. An employee or job applicant may be able to receive protection from coerced submission of a SSN for employment purposes by relying on federal anti-discrimination laws. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 Section 703(a)(1), Title VII, 42 U.S.C. Section 2000e-2(a)(1) makes it unlawful to discriminate against any employee or perspective employee on the bases of his or her religion. (This is in addition to the basic Constitutional First Amendment protection of the free exercise of religion.) In 1992 a complaint was filed with the Equal Employment Opportunity (EEOC) by a Mr. Hanson, wherein he claimed as a "Christian Fundamentalist" he could not obtain or use a SSN. The EEOC filed suit against the business that fired Mr. Hanson on his behalf. The suit claimed that firing Mr. Hanson due to his not having or getting a SSN constituted discrimination due to his religious belief. The business claimed that they were required to either force Mr. Hanson to get a SSN or fire him because they were required by certain IRS Code sections and regulations to report all employees' SSNs on certain IRS forms. The business also responded that it was required by federal law to report all employees' SSNs to the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS). The EEOC countered that the only requirement imposed upon a businesses by the various tax laws was that employers must "request" an employee's or potential employee's taxpayer identification number, and that there was be no penalty for a business not succeeding in obtaining one. The EEOC, itself a federal government agency, stated in its "Plaintiff's Response to Defendant's Motion to Dismiss" that: "the Internal Revenue Code and the regulations promulgated pursuant to the code do not contain an absolute requirement that an employer provide an employee social security number to the IRS." The EEOC further argued that employers were permitted to use any one of several acceptable forms of identification and employment eligibility verification other than a SSN and still comply with the Immigration Reform Act requirements. The Court denied the employer's motion to dismiss the complaint. A settlement was later reached in which Mr. Hanson was awarded back pay. The Court's final decree setting out the terms of the settlement stated that: "The [employer] shall be permanently enjoined from terminating an employee for failure to provide a social security number because of religious beliefs." A sincerely held religious belief may serve as a valid basis for objecting to requirements for a social security number for employment purposes. A business could be found guilty of discrimination for taking adverse action against an employee or applicant due to their refusal to use or obtain a SSN. --------------- Notice that there is no penalty to the employer for not obtaining the employees SSN. | |||
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301.6109-1 "(d) Obtaining a taxpayer identifying number- "(1) Social security number."Any individual required to furnish a social security number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section shall apply for one, if he has not done so previously, on Form SS-5... Individuals who are ineligible for or do not wish to participate in the benefits of the social security program shall nevertheless obtain a social security number if they are required to furnish such a number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section. "(2) Employer identification number- [snip] "(3) IRS individual taxpayer identification number- "(i) Definition. "The term IRS individual taxpayer identification number means a taxpayer identifying number issued to an alien individual by the Internal Revenue Service, upon application, for use in connection with filing requirements under this title. The term IRS individual taxpayer identification number does not refer to a social security number..." "(iii)An applicant for an IRS individual taxpayer identification number must submit such documentary evidence as the Internal Revenue Service may prescribe in order to establish alien status and identity." Note that individual "Taxpayer Identification Numbers, TINs" may only be issued to "alien individuals" who may not be issued a social security number as you will see below. The application for a "TIN," the W-7, plainly states on the face and in the instructions that only "aliens" may apply for a TIN. If you apply for a social security number for yourself or for your child, you must either file under the "alien" status, or otherwise it is assumed that you are, or expect to be, a recipient of some federal benefit. In fact, if a person not qualified to receive a social security number and nevertheless applies for one, they may in violation of Title 42 U.S. Code Section 408 for falsely claiming eligibility, or Title 18 U.S. Code, section 1028 for misuse of government documents. Federal Requirements for Social Security Numbers:Applicants for public benefits must have and use a social security number in order to receive the benefit. Title 42 U.S. Code, Section 405(c)(F) states: "(F) The Commissioner of Social Security shall require, as a condition for receipt of benefits under this subchapter, that an individual furnish satisfactory proof of a social security account number assigned to such individual by the Commissioner of Social Security or, in the case of an individual to whom no such number has been assigned, that such individual make proper application for assignment of such a number." Courts have ruled that in order to receive government benefits from any federally funded benefit program - even if the funds are State administered - a person must use a social security number when applying. In the case of "PEISTER v. STATE of Colorado, DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES," Peister objected, based on freedom of religion grounds, to using a social security number in order to get Colorado's Old Age Pension benefits. The court ruled that a person must use their social security number in order to receive benefits under the State's Old Age Pension Benefits Program. _______ I spent 3 years and $40,000ish dollars on lawyers to end up in Federal Claims court to rpove to the IRS/DOJ that I was neither an alien nor did I want to apply for Federal benefits and therefore did not meet any of their regulations requiring me to obtain a TIN or provide a SSN or to even file Federal Income Tax as I did not have a tax liability. Since I won in Federal Claims Court I haven't heard word one from the IRS. If you think $40,000 is a lot of money consider that I was making over $100,000.00/year and would have been in the 30% tax bracket...40k is less than 2 years of taxes not a bad price to pay to never have to deal withthe IRS again. The flip side of the coin is had I lost I probably would have done 10 years in Federal Prison for tax evasion and then would have owed fines and penalties when I finally got out. | |||
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I am trained as a tax lawyer and have an LLM from NYU in Tax Law. I have zero interest in getting in a fight with the IRS and even less in getting in a fight with DOJ. Glad you survived the fight but I bet if you will a $10 mil lottery the government will be back. Mike | |||
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I'm not over 65 but my Father before he died had Blue Cross major medical, it was not supplemental because he was not on medicaid/medicare nor was he drawing social security retirement at the time. I also believe that as of January 1, 2014 because of the Affordable Care Act(Obama Care) insurance companies can't deny based on pre-existing condition or age...I could be wrong about that though since I haven't read up on the ACA. | |||
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They get theirs up front from what I understand with lottery winners. And by the next fiscal year when taxes would be due on the gains my wife and I would be living on a private island without extradition and the money would be in a bank in St kitts/Nevis and a few other places that don't release banking information and actually appreciate Americans with money. | |||
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But is the pricing controlled under Obamacare ? It is a terribly thin market for health insurance over 65 outside of medicare. Mike | |||
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All you do is trading US government risk for second or third tier bank in the caribbean risk. Also US citizen subject to world wide tax - there are a lot of reporting rules with foreign bank accounts. One would hate to win the lottery and end up spending time in a federal jail. Mike | |||
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Cowboy CS - I wonder how you will deal with Obamacare. The law requires you to have health insurance and to provide proof or you will be fined. The Supreme Court recognized the fine as a tax. The IRS is the compliance enforcer and you are required to file proof with them annually. How will you prove you have health insurance without filing with the IRS? If you choose not to file proof then how will you pay the fine? Remember, by law you must have health insurance and you must provide annual proof. . | |||
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Banking risks are the same the world over, once you get past 200k you aren't insured even in the U.S. banks. St Kitts/Nevis along with a few other countries don't participate in the G20 so they don't report to the U.S and the specific trust laws in St Kitts are such that unless you are a named member of the trust no information can be given out concerning trust matters or accounts. Basically St Kitts tell the U.S. to piss-off. The U.S doesn't give them enough financial aid for themto trade a very lucrative drug cartel funded banking system for a few U.S. dollars. Isle of Mann is another good place to bank. Just be sure to keep your money spread out across multiple currencies(don't keep all my eggs in one basket). As a side note even John Kerry hesitated before releasing his account information from his accounts in St. Kitts/Nevis when he was being vetted. If it's good enough banking for crooked politicians it's good enough for me. Hence the non-extradition island if I won the lottery..tough to do jail time if they can't get their hands on you. Grenadier, The C.F.R. still states(as does the IRS instructional/informational booklets) that you have to have made more than $400.00(self employed) of taxable income before you are required to file. I proved in court years ago that I don't have a taxable income/tax liability so I have no obligation to file a return or report my insurance status. It's all about the way the law is worded and what SCOTUS has ruled about taxable income over the years. Not that it matters I do have major medical/disability and life insurance because I want my wife to be taken care of should anything happen to me. My kids are adults and starting their own families so they can take care of themselves these days. | |||
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I would be pretty scared to have a whole financial planning system based on defining taxable income. You approach kind of forces one to operate on the periphery of the financial and economic system. All this cause you are worried about US government funding and credit risk. How are you going to have great investment opportunities that do not involve any interaction with the financial system? How do you own assets that do not - land, stocks, financial instruments - that generate great or even adequate returns and not interaction with the tax system - dividends on stocks, interest payments, business distribution that does not involve financial and tax realizations ? How do you keep money in a checking account and not have a 1099 - maybe in today's zero rate world you get a bye ? How do you wire money for a African safari ? Pay credit card bills ? Buy stuff on Amazon ? Just cause you are worried about social security not working you choose the lifestyle of a illegal alien and stay out of the financial and tax system ? The US government got Al Capone on criminal tax evasion. Marc Rich is hiding in Switzerland. Uncle Sam likes to be paid and likes his cut. If it works for you and the occupation you have chosen - great and good luck. But for 99.999% of working Americans they need to be in the social security and federal income tax world. Mike | |||
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CS Cowboy, did you register for the draft, i.e. selective service? . | |||
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Mike, I have held foreign bank accounts and have been doing business outside of the the US for over 30 years. Not once have I ever paid a "world wide tax". Can you explain because I sure don't want the world wide police to show up at my door demanding 30 years of taxes in arrears... ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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I early enlisted in the Navy at 17 y.o. if that answers your question. | |||
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No, I was just curious about registering for Selective Service. They ask for a SSN but they don't require it. Thank you for your service. Seventeen is young to go in. I know it's done but it's still awfully young. . | |||
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It's certainly not a course of action for everyone. I didn't do it solely because of gov't funding and credit risk, I chose to make this fight because my religious convictions are opposed to many of the things our gov't funds and the fact that many of the things the gov't does with our money are unconstitutional and I refuse to support them. I see this mind set many times when I mention that I don't have a SSN or Federal Income Tax...once you start down this road you find out it's not as impossible as you have been led to believe...it does not require a SSN to buy or sell land, stocks or set up financial instruments. I am on the board or the sole owner of several LLC. I own several pieces of land in multiple states and overseas...being a tax lawyer you should know there are ways to structure just about everything to get around the tax code. Checking and savings accounts didn't always require a SSN to open...the banking laws didn't change to require an SSN until recently(I can't rememeber exactly when but I think it was 2008 or 09) before you could open an account without a SSN. But even now you can open an account with a credit union as long as they are not an FDIC insured credit union and of course overseas accoutns couldn't care less about a SSN since that is exclusively a U.S. gov't issued number. I transfer money, pay creditors and use online services the same way everyone else does...from banks. None of these things require a SSN and trust me amazon doesn't care if my money is in a bank in the US in a credit union or half way around the world, they only care if they get paid or not. Funny thing about credit, creditors don't care if you have a SSN only credit reporting agencies do...creditors only care if you are a good or bad credit risk. TRW, Equifax(sp?), et. al. just simplify it for lendors to see your credit history but that is not the only way to present a credit history, direct references from lending institutions work just as well. Over collateralization also works just fine when borrowing money if there is no risk to the lending institution they are generally easy to get a loan from...the old saying if you don't need the monay you can get a loan, well that usually hold true. If you want to borrow any amount and you are willing to deposit that same amount with the bank they have no problem lending you your own money. Pay those loans back on time and without any problems and that easily establishes a line of credit. I don't live like an illegal alien at all, I just chose not to participate in a system that is in direct opposition to my convictions. Some people get a not guilty verdict and other go to prison for taking up the same position I have. I know of a couple people who are currently serving federal prison time and I know of a few cases that ended basically the same way mine did...the law/justice system is a funny thing, how it can find one person guilty of tax violations and the next innocent when both present the same defense in court. Actually most Americans don't need to be in the system, they have just been raised inside the system so they don't know any other way. Guess what, if people really want to change this country in a non-violent protest the most effective and easiest way to do that would be for everyone to simply stop paying Federal Income Tax and Social Security(take away the powers that be's money)...there are only about 1 million law enforcement agents in the entire country, there are only a few hundred thousand IRS/treasury agents, prisons are already overcrowded and so on...meaning if we just stopped paying them until they fixed the problems to our liking there is little to nothing they could do about it. We outnumber them hundreds to one...and we really wouldn't have to fire a shot to make it happen, we would just need to collectively stop paying for them to screw us. | |||
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When you are already in they know where to find you. I appreciate the gesture but I really don't deserve thanks for my service, I didn't really do anything, I didn't serve in a time of war, I mostly just got a college education on the Navy's dime. | |||
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US citizen income is subject to world wide tax. By that it means regardless of jurisdiction or geographic location a US taxpayer has to pay Uncle Sam the tax that is due. There is a offset for foreign tax paid which acts as credit. Unlike Britain which only taxes it citizens in its geographic borders. Why you see rich Brits living in Bahamas ect but not US citizens. https://www.irs.gov/Individual...payers-Living-Abroad Mike | |||
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Yes I am aware that as a US Citizen ANY money you make overseas is considered part of your taxable income and must be reported along with your foreign earned income exclusion ($100,800 for 2015) and some of your housing expenses. However, there is no special or additional tax on foreign income as in a "world wide tax". ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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You don't have any law/case law/administrative law backing your position. Just the fact you have not been prosecuted and have fallen thru the IRS/DOJ enforcement cracks. You also don't have a statute of limitation clock running in your favor. Others who have tried the same as sitting in Prison. Most of banking and financial practices you have recommended cannot be replicated today - you have just fallen thru the cracks. This kind of seems like playing russian roulette and having 4 blank pulls with a six gun loaded with one round. You cannot look at the outcome to date and say there is no risk going forward. Mike | |||
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The US tax is worldwide in its jurisdiction and application to US citizens. There is no additional tax but all world wide income is subject to US government tax. In the tax circles (lawyers, accountants ect) this is called world wide tax. Mike | |||
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FWIW, I and my family have collected significantly more than I ever paid into Social Security since I starting receiving SS a few years back at age 62 and still counting until I start pushing up daisies. I hate going to doctors and this alone will probably kill me, but, like Kensco, they cut my monthly checks because I make more money that I'm "allowed" under Medicare rules. I'm not sure of the total, but roughly I have been charged about $10,000 in deductions from my monthly SS checks for medicare and, to date, have received less than $500 in benefits for payments for medical services. I would and did self insure all my life until forced to buy med. insurance by Obamacare for my family and having medicare for myself with social security. I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars I saved by so doing, but it was a significant total. Don't get me started on the medical system, but I it didn't cost me money as a tax penalty I would be perfectly fine with self-insuring now EXCEPT that the med. system discriminates against self payers. There are really 4 levels of pricing for any given medical service....free for those who don't have insurance and no assets (for example homeless, illegals, prisoners, etc), medicare/medicaid levels which are very roughly 1/3 of published costs, insurance co payments which are very roughly 40-50% of published costs, and finally, self insured or those whose insurance doesn't cover certain procedures/processes which are 100% of published costs subject to possible negotiation before and after the fact. This REALLY pisses me off. I think an appendectomy should cost the same for any payee, for example. But no, the system fucks those who chose to self insure. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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There is no law requiring a US citizen to file for and/or use a SSN. You still pay your taxes with an Individual Taxpayer ID Number, and of course you cannot do a whole lot without a SSN, but it is clearly NOT illegal to go without one - to use a triple negative. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Yes actually if you are a tax payer normally paying 7 figures or more in taxes - the IRS will send your an id number other than your social security number for you to use on your taxes on the taxpayers option. Also the common public has no clue what the Federal Reserve and US government did in 2008 and onwards to shore up Switzerland's banking system. THe quid pro quo in exchange has been no swiss banking secrecy for US citizens. Same will happen every where else in the world. All caribbean locations are a hurricane away from needing US aid. Mike | |||
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The Treasury and State Department made it very difficult bordering on the impossible to open a foreign bank account as a US citizen. Any bank allowing this, basically agrees to allowing the Treasure/State Department to perform an unannounced colonoscopy on demand. There are still a few places on the planet that you can, but they are increasingly few. With the IRS having a hard on for anyone with any amount of savings/income, it's simply not worth the gamble today. So either grin and bend over or renounce your citizenship. Of course bank lock boxes are another story... ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Gato Self insurance only works in US medical if you have very low probability of needing medical care. The system is designed to run up crazy bills and then offer discounts. As a small self funding person one never gets the deductions. It truly a stupid system designed to destroy the self insured. It criminal at best. Mike | |||
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Then you must have a Social Security number, right? How were you able to keep the Defense Finance and Accounting Services (DFAS) from automatically deducting Fed Income tax and SSI? . | |||
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There is always risk when challenging the status quo or the system that is commonly accepted, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be challenged. As you say you would be scared to take this stand, I however am not, I was prepared to go to Federal prison then and I am prepared to go now if that is what should happen. There is case law, the outcome of my own case sets precedent, I'm not the only person who has gone toe to toe with the IRS/DOJ and been found not guilty. The last one I remember hearing about was a lawyer in Shreveport, Louisiana named Tom Cryer if I remember correctly. He presented nearly the same arguments based on SCOTUS rulings that my lawyers did and he was also found not guilty. Of course I also remember hearing about Wesley Snipes, his lawyers tried to make the same arguments based on SCOTUS rulings and the Judge in his case refused to allow them to present the arguments. So it is a coin toss not because of the law persay but because you might get a judge that won't allow you to present the defense you want to present. Law change all the time, the banking laws that allowed me to set up my life the way I have probably don't exist the same weay anymore, it has been nearly two decades since I decided to go this path in life. As I said there is some risk but for me the risk is very low, first the burden of proof lies competely with the IRS/DOJ and they would be hard pressed to make a case against me. But lets say they do, first it starts to look malicious when they go after a person who has already proven their innocence in a court of law. Second without my voluntary compliance they will have a hard time proving my financials, I have a 5th amendment right not to self incriminate. And the third reason is the longer and farther you get from the system the less interest the system has in you. It's tough going the first few years, like I said I ended up in a Federal court where the outcomes were either I win and walk away clear or I pay for my choices for a long time and at great personal expense and risk of losing my freedom. After nearly two decades I doubt they have much interest in me anymore. I've also noticed it's the people who are out there selling "systems" to get out of paying taxes or people who are famous that try to cheat the tax laws that generally peak the interest of the IRS...I think it is mostly about setting examples for the general public so they are intimidated into just paying their taxes so they don't end up with the evil eye of the IRS on them. The numbers are simple...the gov't says there are a little less than 100,000 IRS agents(most of then aren't field agents), they have to deal with all the tax returns of every tax payer and person who is supposed to file a tax return but doesn't in the entire country meaning millions and millions of returns every year. The odds of them tracking down one individual who hasn't even shown up in their system in close to twenty years and then being able to prove a tax liability and prove it in a court of law no less...pretty slim actually when you think about it. In my experience mostly the IRS operates by threats and intimidation if you won't be swayed by either of those they can be dealt with. Consider the fact that he IRS is even willing to negotiate a settlement for taxes...this in and of itself tells a smart man that if it's negotiable then they don't have the time and resources to prosecute everyone they simply want the quickest resolution that gets the gov't some money and keeps the individual paying into the future. Like I said the path I chose is not for everybody and I'll agree it may not even be possible for someone to do what I did now days the laws may have changed to much by now. | |||
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I never said that I never had a SSN, I don't have one now. I didn't learn any of this until I was in my 20's. You can have your social security application deleted, it's a hassle and takes persistance and usually a knowledgable lawyer but it can be done. Like I said and like the SSA has said no one is required by law to get a SSN it is voluntary. I quit volunteering. I'm going to add this so that people understand exactly what they are getting when they pay into social security... There is no enforceable 'promise to pay' from the Social Security Administration to its 'beneficiaries. Government contracts are very special and require an appropriation from Congress before money can be expended and a contract made. Regarding Social Security, the only 'beneficiaries' who have any claim against the public treasury are those for whom Congress has already made an appropriation, which can last no longer than a year. The rest of the Social Security claimants in America have no enforceable claim on public funds, and all they possess is a 'political promise,' upon which Congress can renege at any moment. If Congress decided tomorrow to cut off all Social Security, nobody would have any claim for payment. | |||
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