I recognize this probably isn't going to apply to many, if any, in here but there is a mania on for American $20s right now. Premiums are at historic highs. US common AU circ $20 libs are selling at just under $1300. This is for a coin that has no significant numismatic value and only .9675 ounces of gold in it or, based on Friday March 6ths close, about $908 worth of gold in it. I highly recommend taking advantage of this spread and selling American $20s (Heritage is buying everyday) and replacing them with Mexican 50 pesos. Mex 50 pesos have 1.2057 ounces of gold in them ($1132 worth) and can be bought for about a 3% premium above gold content or, again using Friday's close as an example, for about $1165. In short, you can sell or trade your American 20s, have about $125 or so in your hand and have almost a quarter ounce more pure gold than you had before (or sell 10 $20 and get 11 50p and some change, gaining over 3 1/2 ounces of gold in the exchange). This kind of deal doesn't happen very often. Act now.......and no, I'm not in the business of buying or selling any of the above coins, don't ask but I can point you in the right direction if you have some significant quantity you want to trade up. I'm shipping all of mine Monday.

BTW neither American $20 nor Mexican 50 pesos are subject to US Treasury reporting requirements. OTOH krugers, eagles, onzas, etc are.

Gatogordo, Did you get your 20 dollar ultra high relief gold coin? Got my order in on the first day, already made some money on it,and havent received it yet. Probably the best coin in years,I think.

No, I'm not even sure what you're referring to, a new mint issue copy of the high relief?

I don't follow the day to day machinations of the modern mint. Most modern mint issues are terrible deals but if you've made money on it, that's a good thing and fairly unusual, not counting gold or silver metal appreciation value. That is not to say that some of the mint's creations are not very pretty coins/medals. The original high relief is widely considered to be one of the prettiest coins ever minted.

Of course, gold is PROBABLY in a long term uptrend since it is almost certain that you can't create trillions of dollars off the printing presses without causing inflation in the long run. Gold will have to more than double to reach it's inflation adjusted fear related price of the early 80s. Those factors have not disappeared and are on the horizon....

I think, which means guess, that if this recession/depression continues for the nest 18 months or so, which I believe it will, then we will see a real paradigm shift in consumer habits since so much of their wealth will have been destroyed or impaired. The old "
fix it, use it up, wear it out" ways of the depression/our father's and grandfather's generation will return to some extent and the current "throw it away, let's go buy two more" wasteful ways will subside. This does not bode well for a quick recovery since the US booming economy of the last few decades has been primarily based on consumer spending. I look for a long period of slow/no growth like Japan in the 90s. I hope I'm wrong, won't be the first time.

All Bush's fault, right? Inflation does not normally occur when demand is weak, as during a recession or depression. When it does (stagflation) it is due to excessive expansion of the money supply beyond the rate of economic growth. To fund irresponsible government schemes like bailouts and more inefficient government bureaucracy. Essentially when government is forced to borrow excessively to fund programs its taxpayers cannot afford. If inflation becomes a serious problem (as during the Carter administration) it will rest squarely on the shoulders of the new administration, obviously what the stock market is discounting.

I'm talking about making money by flipping gold coins, if you have a problem with that, so be it, or if you have any cogent observations about the gold coin market I'd like to hear them. Until then, it would be better for you to go spout off in the political forum. Gold doesn't care about "normal" or "fault" or Republican or Democrat, it doesn't give a damn, it is primarily a reflection of people's faith or lack thereof in monetary instruments. It may go down, it may go up, but the trade mentioned above is a no lose proposition if someone has stashed away some $20 for a rainy day. I know many people who have. These spreads are the largest they have ever been. Could they get larger? I suppose, but right now they are giving money away if you have 20s to sell or trade.

wish I could play ...

but I'm watchin pines grow on my huntin property.

quote:

Originally posted by ncboman:
wish I could play ...

but I'm watchin pines grow on my huntin property.

I've got a fair amount of pine trees myself. GREAT long term investment with little maintenance expense minus property taxes and you get the intangible but quite real asset of having ground that you own to play on. Coincidentally, for the first time in a while, I was talking with an old friend, who happens to be my forester as well, last night. In case you don't know it, a good HONEST forester is not easy to find. I jokingly asked him if we were going to live long enough to see good prices again on pine sawlogs? He said, in a serious answer, that he thought timber producers would have to get used to long term lower prices than some of those in the past. I don't agree but it is one man's opinion. Right now prices are about HALF of what I refused to sell for a couple of year's back and all the local Texas mills have all the cutters on restrictions as to how much they will take. No where for them to go with the outproduct.

Gatogordo, Being a coin collector,I have never lost any money on coinage. Why are the U.S.$20.00 gold coins selling at such a premium over the spot price of gold? As you said,AU coins! Almost any coin in a higher grade will bring premium prices, the same as gold. I do beleive like you,I will keep my money in gold and silver. Just that I prefer the numistic side. When people loose their life savings in stocks and bonds,I will still have my nest eggs. I have always beleived that the "All Natural" is the way to save. Land, gold, silver, diamonds, and anyting natural will keep us afloat when times get tough. Don't get me wrong, I have bonds and a few stocks,if I would not get hammered by the taxes, I would not have what I have now! Jeff

Why? Because there is a mania for them, the AU coins are just a few dollars more than XFs, which are a few dollars more than VFs, etc. I stress these are NOT collector coins but trading on their gold content. The historical premiums for 20 Libs has been between about $50 to $100/coin, a few more dollars for Saints. The current levels are unprecedented.

I can give advice on coin collecting too, but this is not a coin collection deal. I bought and sold rare coins, specializing in the Liberty Gold series for many years.

Diamonds, unless you are buying as a pawn shop (that is dirt cheap buying levels) or similar are usually a terrible investment IMO.

Just FYI here are Heritage's buy/sell spreads (which are too wide) on 2/25 when gold was just under $970/ounce......all for $20 Libs, VF $1241/1308, XF $1251/1316, AU $1264/1329, BU #1278/1343. As you can see, and as I said, condition is not a big factor BECAUSE they are not collector type coins. Prices are lower now, of course, since gold is down abour $75/ounce since then but the premiums are about the same. I am selling well inside of these spreads and flipping that into 50 Pesos as I said above.

Just as a followup, the spreads on the above trade have narrowed by over a $100/$20 Lib but the trade is still a very attractive proposition, with AU $20 LIbs still bringing about $275 a coin above their gold value. This will continue to narrow as the mania for gold lessens and I expect it to eventually drop back to a normal range of about $100plus dollars per coin. Gold, of course, is down in price as well to approximately $880/oz as I write this.

quote:

Originally posted by 69deer:
Gatogordo, Did you get your 20 dollar ultra high relief gold coin? Got my order in on the first day, already made some money on it,and havent received it yet. Probably the best coin in years,I think.

69deer:

A tip of my hat to you and if you're ever down this way, I'll buy the beer. I hadn't even heard of the $20 UHR mint issue until you mentioned it. I checked into it, ordered one, cost me just under $1300 delivered yesterday and I sold it today for $1550. Thanks.

PS: BTW when I first checked and ordered my coin they were buying these for about $1650. That has dropped a hundred in the past few weeks and I expect it to continue to drop as the demand is met by the mint. After all, they are basically selling less than $900 worth of gold for just under $1300 bucks, what a deal.....I post this to repeat my earlier post that modern mint issued coins are usually terrible deals and I fully expect this coin to drop well below it's current purchase price and premium of about $400 over gold in the after market in a few months. I would expect it to fall to $200 or less premium over spot gold. Caveat Emptor.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by ncboman:
wish I could play ...

but I'm watchin pines grow on my huntin property.

I've got a fair amount of pine trees myself. GREAT long term investment with little maintenance expense minus property taxes and you get the intangible but quite real asset of having ground that you own to play on. Coincidentally, for the first time in a while, I was talking with an old friend, who happens to be my forester as well, last night. In case you don't know it, a good HONEST forester is not easy to find. I jokingly asked him if we were going to live long enough to see good prices again on pine sawlogs? He said, in a serious answer, that he thought timber producers would have to get used to long term lower prices than some of those in the past. I don't agree but it is one man's opinion. Right now prices are about HALF of what I refused to sell for a couple of year's back and all the local Texas mills have all the cutters on restrictions as to how much they will take. No where for them to go with the outproduct.

Nobody in buying timber in Alabama right now.

Basically it is the same in Texas. The mills have all the independents on restrictions as to how much they will take. I've got a well site being expanded on my best timber area in E Texas, they figured 24,000 Bd Ft sawlogs on 1.8 acres....pretty good timber country....we're still arguing about the value of that timber.