I realize that this is a Hunting Forum and therefore, decided to
post this topic in the miscellaneous forum. I also realize that due to the subject, I may not
receive any replies and/or a tongue lashing.

Due to being naive I guess, I did not realize how many students had massive
debt due to educational loans, mostly from universities. I read an article
where a student had $200k of debt as a recent graduate.

Here comes the insensitive part from me. Are college students really that stupid as
to accrue this much debt? How can they do this? Do they work?

I have kids in college currently, and they work. I would rather them take a few semesters off
and save, if they did not have the means to pay. Of course I will help them as I can but it is
ultimately their responsibility.

I wonder if their is a debt crisis in other countries. In the U.S it is out of control.

I believe that students believe that it is not their obligation to pay off the debt.
Maybe I am off base??

Decent companies pay their employees' tuition, maybe the kids don't know about that. Or maybe they don't want to get jobs just yet, I dunno.

In general, no students dont care that they have to pay it back, and get into huge debt in fields that do not have high incomes.

I am a veterinarian and I had to take student loans for school. You don't have time to work in vet school. Not if you want to stay in school long. I graduated from an instate school with about 240K in vet school debt. There are many more who have much more debt than I do. If I was doing it again, I may not have pursued it. I pay alot every month and I am not sure I am even covering interest. The only way to pay it back is to own a practice.

I don't believe we should forgive student debt. They took it on. Let them pay it off. Much like others, I didn't accrue any debt getting my degree. If I agreed to attend the university in my home town, my dad agreed to pay my tuition. Anything over and above that was on me.

I had a brother-in-law that worked in the admissions office. He told me that some "students" applied for loans more often then they attended class. One undergraduate had been there for eight years and was still applying and getting loans to continue his "education".

Shame on the universities themselves. They are more than happy to put students in debt.

The universities also have sweetheart deals with credit card companies to encourage new students to take-on unnecessary debt.

What many people don't know, is that any "forgiven" student loan debt is taxed as income.

Yes, the universities are complicit as hell. It's free money to them. They add in all kinds of bullshit charges that add up to major money when multiplied by 20K students and most people don't care because student loans or other financial aid makes it go away.

If I hadn't been on full academic scholarship in undergrad, no way I would have made it.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
I don't believe we should forgive student debt. They took it on. Let them pay it off. Much like others, I didn't accrue any debt getting my degree. If I agreed to attend the university in my home town, my dad agreed to pay my tuition. Anything over and above that was on me.

I had a brother-in-law that worked in the admissions office. He told me that some "students" applied for loans more often then they attended class. One undergraduate had been there for eight years and was still applying and getting loans to continue his "education".

Shame on the universities themselves. They are more than happy to put students in debt.

The universities also have sweetheart deals with credit card companies to encourage new students to take-on unnecessary debt.

Kensco:

I agree with 100%

I certainly understand that a medical degree would be tougher to do and that it is hard to work while going to school.

If I was starting over again, I would research degrees thoroughly and assure that it would not cause a debt burden by attending
a university. These so called "prestigious schools" are a rip off in my opinion and ROI is not worth what they charge. Attend
a state school and save on the tuition. A Technical school is a great option to start as well.

I was listening to Dave Ramsey a few months back. Some girl called in and said she had around $300k of loan debt and had just received
here bachelors degree in Psychology. What is even worse, she told him that she want to go to graduate school! Unbelievable!

I would strongly encourage new parents (or grandparents) to take advantage of the educational savings plan through an adviser. No penalties of educational costs! I paid about $25 per month, per child, for 18 years. I still did not have enough to cover their tuition but was able to get them off to a good start.

The mind set certainly needs to change!

I know one young lady that is studying to be a dental surgeon. She has a couple more years left and at the end will have close to $500,000 in debt.
I graduated in 73. Things were a lot less expensive. I worked two jobs in the summer and one during the school year.
Don’t remember my debt at graduation, but less than $5000. Paid it off in two years.
And I think all of those that are amassing these huge debt loads are idiots, but they need to pay off their debt, period.

quote:

Originally posted by df06:
I know one young lady that is studying to be a dental surgeon. She has a couple more years left and at the end will have close to $500,000 in debt.

See, that's irrelevant. She will have that paid off within 5 years. Now 500K with a liberal arts degree? Yeah idiotic.

quote:

I worked two jobs in the summer and one during the school year.
Don’t remember my debt at graduation, but less than $5000. Paid it off in two years.
And I think all of those that are amassing these huge debt loads are idiots, but they need to pay off their debt, period.

Now those are words of wisdom! What a great example!

One must be careful when choosing a major. My son does not always like his engineering courses but
realizes that he will have a job when completed. Now, I am not saying do something that makes you miserable
but a Liberal Arts degree, without a plan is not always a good option.

My middle son is having a hard time (harder) understanding this. I hope he chooses a major that will give him
the ability to make a good living.

The student loan debt fiasco is another example of politicians not understanding the law of unintended consequences.

Initially the concept was to provide loans so that more people had the ability to attend university who otherwise couldn’t afford the cost. Sounds great until reality steps in.

First, Universities saw a whole new pot of money and promptly raised tuition rates. This hurt both people using loans (more debt) as well as people who were working there way through or paying with savings.

Second, since the money is free “not really” a lot of students wasted their time pursuing degrees which were not practical and universities were only too happy to provide. Keeps a lot of faculty employed that otherwise wouldn’t be employable.

Trade school is a better option for a lot of people.

Finally, students need to assess what their job prospects, career path and earnings potential really is. There is nothing wrong with getting what most on this forum would say is a bullshit degree but you better have true passion for the subject. If ancient literature is what fascinates you, you’re good at it, and you live and dream about it more power too you. Just be aware that your prospects will be limited.

I think trade school is what many kids need. However, I just changed the run capacitor on my AC that someone decided to place in the attic. Only took 10 minutes, but it was well into the 130s Fahrenheit. Made me glad I went to vet school instead.

I am a trade school Instructor and therefore, a little biased.

I have several students that are using their trade certificate as a "stepping stone" to continue their education at a university.

They finish their trade education and work in this field while attending a university. The wage is considerably higher than a beginning food service job.

model7LSS:

I commend you for completing your schooling. Very few people could make that commitment and effort!

I used to own a conv. store in a university city. At first we had several students working for us then it dwindled down to none.
Seems student loans and credit cards were used to survive on without thinking about having to pay it all back with interest.
They're attitude was that they would worry about that later.
One even bought a new truck with his student loan money while a couple others bought expensive cameras.
Young people making expensive mistakes.

I had a partial scholarship for my undergrad, but had fun and lost it. I then took out loans for the rest. I worked in investment banking and private equity until the market went to hell. I had just finished paying off my private university debts.

Due to the lack of finance business, I then went to law school. That was a terrible idea. My lender, who is now controlled by the government, will not give me an accounting. What I can prove (only my check stubs until I had to go paperless) and what is claimed to be my principle balance could almost be criminal. At the same time, there are so many lawyers coming out each year.

I also see my under grad university building and building new structures, adding to sports venues, etc. Something is messed up with the system.

My step daughter is a Doctor. She got a full scholarship at Smith(no small deal) + then took out loans for med. school. When she graduated she received a 7 million sign on bonus.She's very smart but I have always felt that is one helluva lot of money. That being said,it does'nt take long to pay off your loan.She's a great kid (I say kid).When she worked in Dallas + Houston with the AIDS kids she ran a superb program + on her vacation time she went to Haiti + Africa to do semenaries on AIDS prevention,cures,etc. Now retired w/ a lot of $$$ she has moved to Harlem of all places to continue to educate people. Way to go Lady Gunga Din.I could'nt do it.

My wife decided to go to college in her late 30s. She graduated in 1981 My daughter then went to college graduating 1987. I paid all their school expenses out of the household budget. How times have changed, not for the better.

Dave

No matter what it is if others are paying the way.

People tend to be foolish with their money.

Reading these replies, it is obvious to me that there are some great parents that have taught their children how to work!

I am not sure how so many others have come to believe that foolishly borrowing ones way into excessive debt is a good thing?

I guess that is the majority mindset in today's world. It is unfortunate but true I guess

I raised my 3 sons with a good protestant work ethic.Thus all 3 have always been employed + are doing well.What more can you ask?

quote:

Originally posted by NormanConquest:
I raised my 3 sons with a good protestant work ethic.Thus all 3 have always been employed + are doing well.What more can you ask?

Nothing!

It looks as if you have done it right! Congrat's!

I served 20 years in the military.

My uncle Sam paid for 100% all 48 months of college, and paid me E-5 with dependants Basic allowance for housing for the entirety of that 48 months for college.

He also gave me a profession/trade that out pays what my degree would (environmental science).

He would have done it if I only served 4 years. Since I served 20 he gives me enough of a pension to pay for my house and truck payment, $500 pays for health insurance for me, my kids and my wife for a year, and I get to shop for groceries almost at cost on base.

I don't know what percentage of a graduating class goes in the military anymore, only two other kids from my class of 75 in Montana joined up. One failed out of the Air Force Academy, and the other served in the Army. I don't talk to anyone from school as it has been almost 30 years, but 3/75 isn't much of anything that was in the early 90s.

Wonder how many kids join today?

We have our girls primed to think they are either going to a service academy, doing ROTC, or enlisting in a profession that will have a good paying job on the outside.

My eldest went in the Navy in 96 + # 2 went in the Army in 2000 + was one of the 1st boots on the ground in desert shield.I seem to think that not that many kids enlist today but I could be wrong. Gone are the days when you had the choice of jail or the army.You need a H.S. grad. + that is all to the good.Although the GI bill + VA benefits are a plus not many kids that age think that far ahead.Also we don't have a real national emergency that requires patriotic response.

many moons ago I joined the Navy so that I could get the GI Bill. And then I worked hard and saved so that I could go to Law School. When I finished Law School I did not owe any student loans.

It can be done.

Gotta wonder, is the high cost of education related to the pressure to attend name brand schools, often thousands of miles from home ? I did 4 years at my local university a good school, worked on the side, no muss, no fuss, little bother.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams:
Gotta wonder, is the high cost of education related to the pressure to attend name brand schools, often thousands of miles from home ? I did 4 years at my local university a good school, worked on the side, no muss, no fuss, little bother.

Grizz

Going to a public (local) school is usually the best option. The major is the most important part, not the "prestige" of the university.

On another note, I saw one of the most ridiculous and stupid advertisements on TV the other day. I decided to watch some of the NBA finals and an advertisement for SOFI.com came on. It was saying/showing how millennial's should not work jobs like their parents or other generations and specifically showed and alluded to a waitress job. I guess this idiotic company thinks that this type of job is beneath ones dignity. They also have another advertisement that is similar in stupidity. They basically say student and credit card debt is not ones fault and to solve all your problems by consolidating debt with them.

It's too bad that there are so many of these frauds, painting such a positive picture on debt.

I've been in educaiton for 40 years. The problem as I see it is kids can't take a car loan or get a credit card unless for. a very small amount and usually with a cosigner. BUT, at the same age they can rack up tens of thousands on student load debt. They simply are not ready to understand what they are doing. That's why the banks severely limit what they can take in loans at that young age.
Cal

A lot of issues here to unpack.
50 years ago my father in law sent his two kids to college without any kind of loan, just on his middle class income. His wife did not work. You cannot do that now. Why? The easy availability of student loans. With those, there is no incentive for colleges to keep costs down.
Young people have been informed that a college degree is a sure way of making a good living. It is an open sesame. As a result, private enterprise has created a way for unqualified students to get into "college", get a worthless degree, and not get a job, while the "college" gets its money up front, and someone else is left holding the bag. Witness the number of colleges closed down in the last few years. There was even a law school in Jacksonville and Savannah, closed down because they lied about just about everything. Bottom line is "why do colleges have admission requirements"? Because you need them to complete the course of study!
I was out of work for a couple of years, so I was an adjunct at a local private university. In my opinion, about a third of the kids there had no business being in a university. They were not qualified, not prepared and not really interested in the subject matter. They were there to find the easiest courses, do the minimum amount of work and get out with a half way decent GPA.
Meanwhile, schools, parents etc. are busy fostering the attitude that if you don;t go to university then you haven't "made it".
But, some jobs will never be replaced by AI! For example HVAC mechanics and repair. Plumbing, electricians etc. Work at these and , if you are good enough you can start your own business, and be successful, because your competition will get too greedy!
So, sorry, the problem is not as simple as "a degree in 7th century under-water basket weaving". If it were it would not be so pervasive.
As a matter of fact, back in the 70's I worked for a computer manufacturer as a field software support manager. Back then we required a college degree, and we administered an aptitude test. Who did the best in these tests? Easy, Math majors, Music majors and language majors!
Yes, you should be conscious of your future ability to repay the loan, but, the simple fact is that it is easy to be sucked down the long slippery slope ie. "if I just get this certification then everything will be all right".
The military is certainly a good option, but not for everyone! I had to get my house ready to sell a few years ago. Painted the entire inside of the house. Who did it? Several guys who had been in the Navy here in Jax. but had been fired for fighting, drinking etc. They didn't last 2 years in the service. It is not for everyone, and they were just too young for that kind of discipline. Just the discipline you need to get and keep a job. Show up on time, every time. Do the work to the best of your ability. Take pride in your work!
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by NormanConquest:
My eldest went in the Navy in 96 + # 2 went in the Army in 2000 + was one of the 1st boots on the ground in desert shield.

Please explain this one. If one joined the Navy in 96, and the other, the Army in 2000, how was he one of the 1st boots on the ground in Desert Shield.

Desert Shield was 1990. Desert Storm 1991.

Sounds like he was about 10 years late to be one of the first boots on the ground for Desert Shield!

Todd,desert storm was in 91,I agree. He went into Itaq in 2001 after 9/11. Perhaps that was desert storm 2,I don't recall what Bush was calling the 2nd invasion.Was just working on memory;sorry I got the operational name wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by NormanConquest:
Todd,desert storm was in 91,I agree. He went into Itaq in 2001 after 9/11. Perhaps that was desert storm 2,I don't recall what Bush was calling the 2nd invasion.Was just working on memory;sorry I got the operational name wrong.

Desert Shield was the build up in 1990 to Desert Storm in 1991. I fought in Desert Storm.

George W's invasion of Iraq after 9-11-2001 was Operation Iraqi Freedom.

I repeat,sorry I got the operational name wrong,but he was damn sure there.He worked in communications. I got a call one night at 3:00 in the A.M. from him. I was pretty blown away that I was getting a call from a war zone.This did NOT happen in the 60's.Anyway bottom line was that Bell Corp. was charging these young men $20.00 a pop to call home.One of my son's buddies used to work for S.W. Bell + knew the sattalite coordinats + locked on + let all the kids to call home for free.I was sending him "care" pkgs. on a regular basis.You know,DVD's,Homemade cookies,cheese,summer sausage,etc. He told me he had a buddy that had no family thus no pkgs,etc, I got his name + sent him a pkg. loaded with goods along with a letter from a "Dutch Uncle".Never heard back from the kid but that's O.K.If for only one day in his life he got a great treat + a care from home then that's enough for me.