It's another frosty morning here in west central Texas with a chill wind all the way from Canada and I am staring at my nice, big fireplace -- that was recently determined to be unsafe to use. This came as a blow because the fireplace was the main reason I chose this fixer-upper over others in the greater Abilene area last June.
There is a gas line to the fake logs that is also ridiculous -- no apparent ignition device, an apparent on-off valve right under the grate and no emergency shut-off valve up the line. The fireplace guy said he had not seen that one before. The chimney has no cap, the top four courses of brick are spalled and the chase is just barely two feet above where it leaves the roof; code requires three. And then there is the matter of the unconventional flue. It is fairly clean, but the brick mason in the year 1964 when this house went up dealt with the odd design of the fireplace at a 45-degree angle to the room by simply turning the first section of flue at 45 degrees to the upper two -- another bad no-no according to my inspector.
My Realtor urged me to get a second opinion, but fireplace outfits are few and far between in this neck of the woods. I'd really prefer to put in a wood-burning insert, and if I were forced to take the chimney apart brick by brick right down to the firebox in order to accommodate a tripled-insulated stainless flue, I would do it if it meant I could have an insert installed.
If this proves undoable, I guess I could look at one of the newer electric fireplaces. They have come a long way in reproducing the illusion of flames, but it is not the same thing as having burning wood "talking to you." But this option makes me a little nervous as this part of Texas suffered in the multiple-fatalities failure in 2021 of the bizarre Texas power grid.
Here's the fireplace, in all its useless glory. Yes, that is an asbestos popcorn ceiling above, and bare concrete floor below, awaiting new flooring. I don't care for the color of the brick, so will either whitewash or "schmear" it, assuming I can put it to work. And of course it needs a proper mantel.

No matter what you do it will be a bit spendy. I'd recommend the wood insert and the interior chimney to be steel lined. Then consider a 'metalbestos' type extension over your spalled brick and mortar to increase your height and draft?

Also, consider being even more of a do-it-yourselfer... I highly recommend this item for chimney cleaning. Pays for itself very quickly and is easy to use. It is very, very good quality.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...n_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Personally, I like the fireplace color. If you are in San Angelo, on Knickerbocker Rd, Dr Wall a dentist, has a mesquite mantel in his waiting room. Thing is beautiful.

Ann, I had not seen that product. I can imagine it more than paying for itself the first use.
Carpetman, I'm sure a mesquite mantel would be lovely. Thinking pecan would be pretty nice, too.

Bill, no need to hire high priced sweeps, no ladders and no getting on the roof to scrub the creosote out of your chimney either.

A nice wood fire is very worth the costs you have with the wood burning insert and new chimney. And when the power goes out, and it will, you will be warm and smiling.

I've been burning a woodstove connected to my fireplace chimney for the last 42 years. It's hard to beat the comfort of wood heat.

Your entire fire place and chimney sound like they are in poor shape, wouldn't be the first fire caused by that. Masonry is very difficult to repair, talking about the part you can't see. I'd suggest a proper liner, this is the kind of stuff we use around here, rated for abut 1200 deg. It ain't cheap, required by code.

https://www.homedepot.ca/produ...ALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Grizz

bill, you need to go with an insert. I have been building caps + pipe for over 40 years. I would recommend you check with your local hardware stores + when you buy your pipe, buy it all at the same time. Reason I say this is that pipe mfgs are notorious at going out of business + then you can't match up what you have. I know, that's why I have been building pipe so long. Around here, the leading sales outfit is Georgetown, Fireplace + Patio. Even though I have been building stuff for them for years, they are the most expensive around. I'd be happy to build you a chase cover cap (I do them all the time), but you would need to come down here to get it. You have my email, drop me a line if you want to discuss it more.

Sounds to me like it was a wood burner converted to a home made gas burner.

About code most houses are not up to code after they are built.

The codes keep changing.

I don't run a cap on my wood burner chimneys. In the summer I put a bucket over them to keep the rain and critters out.

They help creosote to form by not letting the smoke to escape fast enough.


There are many types and shapes of liners out there.

The cheapest is to buy a liner that is the closest fit to the flue and install it.

To the fire box and attach the insert to that.

Search flue liner's

Here's how to install a liner your self.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02P1PGqsUhU

Thanks fellas. Randy, I will be in touch once I know more; I'd love to come and pick up a cap in person! I had been looking at Metalbestos pipe that Ann mentioned just because the brand was familiar, but Selkirk sure gets top dollar for it, it seems.
P dog, I would guess the single square flue is something like 9 or 10 inches. The inspector didn't actually drop a cam
I've just got to get a second opinion on this thing.
Trying to figure out how to link the pdf of the report.

Bill/Oregon PM me a cell number and I have a picture of the mesquite mantel I can forward.

Code says that the liner has to be stainless steel, the outer can be galvanized. If you were only going out the roof + not a chase, then you wouldn't need dbl. wall pipe. Dbl. Wall is only necessary when you are going through an attic space or chase where clearance to combustibles is an issue; otherwise you are throwing away a lot of radiant heat. I can build you the pipe, BUT I don't have a UL sticker. Those stickers when last I checked in the mid 90s were $2K each for every product you presented to them; that means a separate sticker for 6" pipe, 8" pipe, ad nauseam. The lack of a UL sticker might be an issue with your insurance company. Just because I make a good product + know what I'm doing has nothing to do with it. Metalbestos, Metalfab, Superior, etc. are some that are still (maybe) available. EVERYTHING steel related has gone through the roof under the current administration. I have a friend who runs another S/M shop that I can get S/S from as my suppliers in Houston can't get any until, maybe next year.

Bill, first get a pellet stove and install it elsewhere, same room is fine. Definitely go with the insert woodstove and liner, but the good news is the pellet stove will remove the immediate emergency.

Scott, thanks. It's not an emergency in the sense that I have an ancient, creaking, booming Lennox gas furnace still putting out some heat. This time of the year, I want a fire. I don't have a wife, I don't currently have a dog and I quit smoking a pipe years ago so Carter Hall ("When a Feller Needs a Friend") is out.
Must be my Neanderthal genes. I want a fire, a real fire.

Pellet stoves are in the realm and of course you could also go with small wood stoves with a side wall exhaust. Roof gable end installation is better in The snowy climates, but thru the eave is ok as long as you get above the peak of the roof.

I've got a vague plan for down the road to have small wood stoves in different rooms like the master bedroom, living room, garage/ shop,......

My idea is if you want to take the chill of you light a couple logs. If the power goes out you have complete home heat.

The problem with right angle sidewall pipe is the amount of creosote you will grow. They are hard to clean. You have to take them apart. what a mess. Go straight up your chimney.

Ann, straight is best, I agree. However, I have a horizontal discharge from my wood stove in my shop. So I made a pattern + built a "drop leg Tee". Basically, it is an S/S 6" Tee that attaches to the horizontal pipe coming out the wall to the vertical stack with a removable vented bottom piece of pipe. Every year, you just pull the bottom pipe + use your chimney brush to clean it out. Helpful hint; when installing your pipe, make sure4 that your liner is male side down! That keeps any creosote going back down the pipe to the fire inst stead of running out externally; a nasty affair.

If one has a masonry chimney a right angle hook is most likely the only way.

quote:

That keeps any creosote going back down the pipe to the fire inst stead of running out externally; a nasty affair.

If you have creosote running down your chimney.

Your wood is too green and your not burning the fire hot enough.

Back in Oregon days, our chimney sweep said to burn a hot fire of seasoned incense cedar every couple of months to help reduce creosote buildup. Seemed to work, and we had three big boys dropping limbs every time there was a wind, so the supply was just out the door, basically.

There is a product I call Rutland compound that you add to your hot fire that helps. I will find a link for it but many stores, like Tractor Supply, have it on the shelf. It is made in Rutland, Vermont. Good stuff.

As someone else mentioned, having a cap with the screen at the top of the chimney will cause creosote no matter how dry your wood is. If you don't have a cap you have rain and animals coming in. A damned if you do/don't issue. I have a metal roof and absolutely will not climb up there to place a bucket/take it off to burn wood.

The link I posted above is the best tool ever for cleaning your chimney. I don't think it would be real effective with right angle pipe though. You will have to do disassembly. What a mess. Those curves also collect creosote. Been there. Learned my lesson.

True about great heat removing creosote, but not every one does it right, so, yes there can be a build up. And Heaven knows, that anyone who ever had a flue fire remembers it well! As to the cap feature, I have designed one that is considerably better than any 'store bought' ones. It will deflect downward or cross wise rain + is bird proof, without the obstruction of screen; although I can do that as well, as that is what is used on my commercial roof-jacks.

quote:

There is a product I call Rutland compound that you add to your hot fire that helps. I will find a link for it but many stores, like Tractor Supply, have it on the shelf. It is made in Rutland, Vermont. Good stuff.

There are several products on the market that help.

I use one called Creosote Destroyer I add it to the fire every couple of days.

quote:

And Heaven knows, that anyone who ever had a flue fire remembers it well!

The 1920's farm house I grew up in had one a couple times a winter.

My parents would send some up on the roof with a 5lb bag of salt and they would dump it down the chimney.

To put it out it worked.

Our only heat was wood a small burner in the kitchen and a coal wood combo furnace in the basement.

No fan just radiant heat. We burnt slab wood from the local mill.

It was cheap but a PITA to stack and use.

That house had no insulation and icicles would be from the roof line to the ground.

Yeah, the idea to throw rock salt onto the fire to quench the flue fire has been around for a while. It kills the oxygen that fire needs to burn. But you are right, there are granules you can buy now that put onto your fire every few days will help eliminate the creosote.

quote:

Originally posted by Norman Conquest:
Yeah, the idea to throw rock salt onto the fire to quench the flue fire has been around for a while. It kills the oxygen that fire needs to burn. But you are right, there are granules you can buy now that put onto your fire every few days will help eliminate the creosote.

I've had a couple, cup of water in the stove fixed that. Trick is to burn a hot fire regularly to burn it out before it builds up.

Grizz

How well I know, but I had one customer who really had no excuse as he was a stone mason that had several flue fires + always needed me to build him a new chase cover. I finally told him to just save the dimensions, as I know I'll be back here next year.

Hell Bill:

With a concrete floor and asbestos ceiling just build a camp fire in the middle of the living room floor! Open the doors on that fireplace to suck the heat and smoke out. Since you have to replace the floor, you sure can't hurt much.

George

George, you may have something there.
Actually, I found a good forum -- hearth.com -- for advice on all things woodburning.
I may just order in a Droulet 1500 from Northern Tool, but still have to deal with stabilizing the chimney chase, etc., before I can have Randy build me a cap.

Just remember when you get thinking that we are all so advanced; it was less than 300 years ago that Ben Franklin thought up the idea of an enclosed fire box that exited the smoke outside. Just like a bumper sticker I saw the other day; "Remember, young folks, that your technology challenged parents are the same ones who taught you how to use a spoon."

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
No matter what you do it will be a bit spendy. I'd recommend the wood insert and the interior chimney to be steel lined. Then consider a 'metalbestos' type extension over your spalled brick and mortar to increase your height and draft?

Also, consider being even more of a do-it-yourselfer... I highly recommend this item for chimney cleaning. Pays for itself very quickly and is easy to use. It is very, very good quality.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...n_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Ann Will this turn 90% angle at the stove and then go up 20',,,about a 18" from bottom of the stove. If you say yes I'll buy now,,,thanks Jim

Jim, not sure if the rods are flexible enough for that. Those elbow bends are prime spots for collecting creosote though. It might go through one bend, maybe the one through your wall?

In my past, with a set up like that, I had to take those pipes off and clean outside. Ran a brush down the main chimney. I don't get on roofs anymore and would never have elbow type chimney anymore either. I know most set ups like that would be difficult to change.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Jim, not sure if the rods are flexible enough for that. Those elbow bends are prime spots for collecting creosote though. It might go through one bend, maybe the one through your wall?

In my past, with a set up like that, I had to take those pipes off and clean outside. Ran a brush down the main chimney. I don't get on roofs anymore and would never have elbow type chimney anymore either. I know most set ups like that would be difficult to change.

Ann,, I studied my stove and the distances involved and made the order. I'll give you a report later in the winter,,Thanks,,

I'm a think to push up until it clears and then draw bac with power and keep angle less by shortening lengths as needed/

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Ann, I had not seen that product. I can imagine it more than paying for itself the first use.
Carpetman, I'm sure a mesquite mantel would be lovely. Thinking pecan would be pretty nice, too.

Bill We have 5 woodstoves here and keep them clean from the roofs,,, but I just ordered one of these and I'll bet rooftops are nevermore. Report towards spring!

O.K. here's how it's done. One can clean a flue from top + bottom with a chimney sweep brush, I know, I have several in the common sizes; 6" primarily, but also the new additions of 4" + 8". To keep in accordance with code, you will not have a 90 degree angle in an an enclosed space, where it can not be reached for clean out. 45 deg. Is O.K. to a point if you have the flexible shafts for the brushes. Personally, I have found the best way was to have a horizontal discharge from the stove w/a freestanding vertical stack w/ a drop leg "Tee" I have built these in the past so that folks could drop the tee FTG. + use the chimney brush in both directions to remove the creosote. That being said, clean your flue EVERY year regardless; better safe than sorry.

I would definitely get a second opinion. Most home inspectors are under trained idiots.....

Get a fireplace specialist out there before you waste money.

Here in texas we don't burn much conifer wood....mostly oak and creosote build up is much less of a concern with oak wood.

JTEX, I agree about the inspectors. After many years in the construction trade, I have come to the conclusion that the one thing all these inspectors have in common, is having been in business themselves + failed.

Oh, yeah, +, now they have a hard on for those who made it. That might not be universally true, I have seen too many to write off as coincidence.

Couldn't agree more, there is nothing like a good woodstove.

Its currently 7 degrees here with -20 windchills but my Harman woodstove is keeping my house a toasty 76 degrees.
Harman also makes fireplace inserts, and in my opinion, they are one of, if not, THE best.