The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Other Topics Miscellaneous Topics The Vietnam War - Ken BurnsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| one of us |
Anyone watching that program on PBS? http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/the-vietnam-war/home/ It's good but not near as good as Ken's Civil War or Baseball historical films. Interesting to see and hear all the doubts expressed by LBJ and McNamara as they get mired down in an unwinnable situation. Of course the American public gets lied to, left and right, but what's new there? The more you hear of the North Vietnam thought process and strategy, the more hopeless our situation appears. A few people read the situation right at the time, but not many. Once you get the benefit of all the hindsight, it is abundantly clear that we had no business being there. (Rolling Thunder didn't do shit.) I suspect Trump is in a similar situation in regard to North Korea. You don't want to make a mistake and bring Russia or China into the fray on NK's side. It would be nice to get China to solve the problem for us, but don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. | ||
|
one of us |
My Texas A&M classmate and outfit bud, LTC (Ret) Jim Willbanks, Class of 1969, is the General of the Army George C. Marshall Chair of Military History at the U.S. Army Command and general Staff College, Ft. Leavenworth. He was a consultant on the show and recently hosted Ken Burns and Lynn Novick for a presentation and panel discussion at the C&GSC. Jim served in Vietnam & was wounded. He's written several scholarly books on Vietnam, has taken groups to tour the areas where we fought, and is generally considered one of the foremost authorities on the war and its political ramifications. I read some early reviews of Burns' production which criticized him, in the reviewers' opinions, for simplifying the reasons the U.S. became involved in Vietnam. Other criticisms suggest Burns has put a liberal spin on the documentary in order to support the idea that the war was "America's fault." I was on active duty during Vietnam but never went and still have feelings of guilt that I didn't, even today. I really don't know enough about the history of Vietnam and our part in the war to give an opinion about the validity of Burns' documentary. LTC, USA, RET Benefactor Life Member, NRA Member, SCI & DSC Proud son of Texas A&M, Class of 1969 "A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?" Robert Browning | |||
|
| one of us |
AFA I'm concerned it is a great program. Having read many books on the subject, it would be impossible to downplay the stupidity of LBJ, McNamara, and Westmoreland. Thousands of lives wasted for stupid logic. | |||
|
| One of Us |
i think Burns let us know the conduct of the war was lacking in comittment and strategy. The people who lost their lives or souls because of this is my grudge. We did not invade North Vietnam, did not destroy their infrastructure, nor blockade their ports, because we were afraid of China and Russia. The infantrymen were told to find the enemy, lose a few men while you call in the choppers, artillery, and jets and kill a bunch of them, maybe on the same patch of ground more than once. Sooner or later, it's your turn to pay the piper. | |||
|
One of Us |
A good program as most of Ken Burnes are. Only the 1st in the series but looking good.G.D. politicians should have never been allowed to put their oar in the water.That is why we lost,+ we did lose;they wan't it more + our hands were tied. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
|
One of Us |
Good series as usual from Ken Burns. Interesting to see the perspectives from all sides. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
|
| one of us |
We are going down the same road with North Korea; the principal difference is the presence of nuclear weapons and the ability of the leaders involved. Otherwise we're back to a blind sense of patriotism v.s. uninformed reason, a no-win situation with the jocks beating up the hippies. And the draft is trying to come back, cross-dressed as an equal opportunity for women. The new generations don't know how it was, and it will cost them. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
|
| One of Us |
Tom,I was just about to post a comment but you hit my thoughts right on the head. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
|
One of Us |
A good show so far - just started Ep. 3. A telling comment from the fellow (a soldier) that he was in the last generation of Americans who thought the government wouldn't lie to them. That's a shame. | |||
|
| one of us |
Saw the last episode last night. It'll grab you. What with all the bitching and complaints about the Vietnam Memorial, turns out the young lady who designed it, absolutely nailed it. Couldn't have been a better way to honor those that didn't make it home alive. I would suspect all of us knew at least a half dozen of those names as kids we grew-up with, or went to school with. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Wow. Could you believe the film footage in episode #9 of Jane Fonda pointing to the American airmen on her trip to Hanoi saying, "These are war criminals and they should be executed!" Isn't that Treason????!!! | |||
|
| one of us |
xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
|
| one of us |
Rather than Megyn Kelly asking about Jane's cosmetic surgery, I wish she had asked her about her statement and visit to North Vietnam. I'm assuming that didn't come up. An interview of Jane Fonda wasn't on my radar screen. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Wow again. The above paragraph seems pretty clear. Wonder why she was never charged? | |||
|
| one of us |
I would have expected a "gentlewoman's agreement" on the type of questions permitted during the interview. Some topics would naturally be off limits... TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
|
| One of Us |
Most of the celebrities, ie, Hillary, et al, require a script of the questions that are going to be asked. They can edit the script. Aim for the exit hole | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yes. I read the David Halberstam book "The Best and the Brightest" which dedicates a 700+ page book to all the errors of thinking and errors of character that were responsible for this gigantic misstep. How do you make such delusional decisions? How do you get to that level of power and authority and not develop circumspection? But that DOES happen, and it was not only those individuals, it is not only that war, those set of circumstances. I think there are many aspects of that war -- and the French Indochina War which preceded it, which in fact was just part of the same struggle as far as Vietnam was concerned -- that are fascinating. I have read a lot of books on the French experience there. We learned nothing from them. And it wasn't because the lessons had not been packaged and presented to high ranking military people. See Bernard Fall's "Street Without Joy." Fall actually worked as a consultant for the US Military in the early 1960s and clued them into what would happen. The error was thinking that the peasant army could not stand toe-to-toe with a modern technological army. The peasant army employed the strategy of Sun Tzu and made the war the kind of war he could win and which neutralized technology. A word to the wise. Use your freakin' brain, learn from your ancestors, learn from olden times. The lessons are all written there in history and books. | |||
|
| one of us |
Working backwards, filling gaps in the program that I missed a few weeks ago. Amazing that Ho Chi Minh was pro-American and initially hoped America would support their fight for independence. He even quoted Thomas Jefferson. We unfortunately backed our Imperialist ally, the French, and then followed their footsteps down that long, regrettable road. A lot of signposts told us to get out, but we were cock-locked; "stopping communism". What a waste! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Funny....I watched part of the first episode last night and was unaware of exactly what you stated above. I have no doubt minh would've said anything to mount help against the French. When he wasn't looking though the viet minh were brutal assassins no different than pol pot and company. The most accurate statements I've heard on multiple episodes are by several American pols and military men.....paraphrasing: It is not possible to win a war there. I've said before that the only way to win a war on foreign soil against zealots of any ilk is total annihilation. If you're not willing to do that then just stay out (see shitholistan, iraq, nam, etc.). | |||
|
| One of Us |
That used to be standard operations for any despot: Claim that without help they would not be able to maintain a "democracy". That would ensure that America would ship them a few billion bucks and several boat loads of weapons. They often played both ends against the middle. Aim for the exit hole | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'd disgree. We "Brits" did it in Malaysia without annihalation. There's only two ways. Which the US, fighting a war beamed each night to the world by CBS and tied to a corrupt Saigon Government couldn't make work. It's what I was taught forty plus years ago now. You fight an internal enemy by either fighting it with a greater counter terror or by removing the political discontent that underpins the movement's popular support. | |||
|
| one of us |
Norton Most of my comments were relative the early parts of Episode 1. They did a lot of flashbacks to the 40s; comments by FDR that encouraged Ho Chi Minh. Then after FDR died and WWII ended HCM noticed America did an about-face. HCM went to America first before turning to the Soviet Union and to China. From an interview with Ken Burns & Fredrik Logevall: "You know, I think that there is a kind of hypocrisy. Maybe an understandable one on some level, but I think there is. Ho Chi Minh, by the way, struggled with this. Ho Chi Minh for a long time believed that the Americans would be there for him in the end. That he would be able to count on the United States. And he believed that not only because of what Franklin Roosevelt said during World War II about, you know, colonialism being a thing of the past and how we have to support self-determination. But he also believed that, Ho, because of America’s historical experience. Which is that the United States fought a war against the colonial overlord in the British. Knew, in other words, what he was trying to do in Vietnam and had gone through a revolution successfully. So, ergo, the U.S. should be there for me. So he struggled with this. Didn’t want to believe in the hypocrisy. Didn’t believe that the United States could say one thing and then do something else. And it took him a long time to shed this idea that ultimately the Americans will come to my assistance. It was only, I think, in 1948-49, so deep into his war with France, that he finally said, “Okay, I guess I should give up on the Americans.” It’s a tragic part of the story as far as I’m concerned. The above is covered briefly in Episode 1. Ho Chi Minh basically pulls Jefferson's words from the Declaration of Independence, "All men are created equal, etc., etc. during one of his early speeches. I'm finding the programs interesting on many levels. It is hard to believe we didn't learn more from France's mistakes there, but of course, they are France, and we're America; big, brave, and invincible. | |||
|
| one of us |
From memory, there are first hand reports of OSS operators who personally met with Minh at or near end of WWII and he said he would back US ideas if the US would support him. Without authorization for such an agreement, it was let die on vine and the rest is history. Looking back, probably the worst managed and fought "war" the US has been in to that point. Iraq, which, of course, should have had the advantage of hind sight, is a very close second. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I knew what you were referring to Kensco....I found those flashbacks to the 40s fascinating as well. Some colonies were far better off before they were cut loose. | |||
|
| one of us |
Most weren't ready for independence, certainly not democracy. A benevolent dictator was the best they could hope for, and most of them didn't get that. | |||
|
| one of us |
We had just finished with World War II, maybe didn't have the inclination to go against France in Vietnam. As an ex-colony ourselves, I would have thought our sympathies might lie with the Vietnamese. Maybe we picked the wrong side. Another side issue, we were already deep into rebuilding Asia, might not have wanted to assign resources to Vietnam that were needed to rebuild Japan. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Other Topics Miscellaneous Topics The Vietnam War - Ken Burns
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia