Two of my nephews are showing at a major horse show at Spruce Meadows (just a few miles SW of Calgary, Alberta).

They saw on TV how Phoenix got over 5" of rain night before last and it rained yesterday and last night too.

They called to say "rain is no big deal", it is snowing at Spruce Meadows today.

Well, at least we don't shovel rain...

i think the people who drowned in the flood might disagree with the idea of rain is no big deal. seeing I 10 under water is a bit worrying....

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
i think the people who drowned in the flood might disagree with the idea of rain is no big deal. seeing I 10 under water is a bit worrying....

There was 1 person, not "people", who drowned in the recent Arizona rains.

This is the one to which you are referring:

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"Capt. Paul McDonough said witnesses reported seeing a fully clothed man in the Rodeo Wash on Tucson's south side about 6:30 a.m., initially standing but then being swept off his feet. The witnesses said he hit his head on a concrete embankment, began floating face down and then disappeared.

"McDonough said some 60 rescuers from five agencies, including a Department of Public Safety helicopter, searched for two hours before the body of an unidentified man was found on a sandbar downstream in the Santa Cruz River. The body had sustained multiple traumatic injuries, and the force of the water had removed his clothing, McDonough said.

"This is a somber reminder that even a pedestrian needs to stay away from washes during the rainy season," McDonough said, "at least 100 feet or 10 car-lengths from a bank, because the water can erode the side and you can easily become a victim.

"McDonough added that hazards abound in fast-moving water. "Boulders become wrecking balls; trees, there are way too many hazards," and even a strong swimmer is at the mercy of a running wash."

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And, why, do you suspect that this man was standing in a flooded wash, a short walk from safety? Could it have been that like so many others inevitably do, feeling immortal, he was "playing" in the water? There was no vehicle at the site so he most likely walked into the water on the spur of the moment.

Most people who live in the desert know better than to enter washes, river beds, underpasses or anything similar when heavy rains fall. Flash floods come quickly, last a short length of time and then are no longer a threat. Of course they are never a threat if one doesn't play "chicken" with either wet or dry watercourses during heavy rains.

For those of us who stayed away from the water-run-off washes, we were neither hurt nor threatened by those torrential rains. In fact, it gave our gardens and trees much needed relief from heat & drought stress, and we didn't have to shovel it when the storm was over.



But Darwin does collect a few as his toll from every kind of bad weather...rains, snow-falls, tornado-strength winds, tsunami waves, et.al.

Part of surviving as a human being is the exercise of using one's brain to AVOID such risks. Man can never overwhelm nature, but he CAN learn to apply enlightened self-interest when the weather is or may become severe.

As for I-10 becoming a "lake" as reported by various " breaking news" sources, nowhere was it over maybe 15" deep, and usually it got far less than 8" deep at the most. (Almost all ofthe "flooded" portions had standing or flowing water of 1" to 3" depth for a short while, then none at all.) Surely everyone recognizes how the media needs to report SOMETHING, hence the creation of alarms, warnings, disasters, and so on, from what is really not all that remarkable.

All the folks I know had enough smarts to get and stay the hell OFF the freeway when that occurred.

quote:

Most people who live in the desert know better than to enter washes, river beds, underpasses or anything similar when heavy rains fall.

It doesn't have to be falling on you either. I've been stopped by a number of flash floods in New Mexico and Texas when the skies were cloudless, except for miles away back in the mountains where it was raining like Hell and the runoff was headed our way. Both of the times that immediately come to mind, people did incredibly stupid things that nearly cost them their lives. One man, with his two grandsons drove in a pickup truck around a line of about fifty cars stopped on the highway. With people waving at him to stop. He was planning on driving through about 250 yards of raging water. He made it about fifty yards before his pickup was washed off the road. while it was being buffeted back and forth, he and his grandkids, about 9 and 6, climbed out the window into the bed of his truck, and started waving for help. After a lot of discussion, a trucker decided he would give it a try before the pickup flipped and washed everyone in it over to Elephant Butte Reservoir. He pulled his 18-wheeler off into the flood until his cab was alongside the pickup. The victims climbed into his truck and he managed to back out of the mess.

The other time was south of Ozona. Blue skies, but we round a bend and the flash flood was raging through a normally dry arroyo. Two cars were stopped on our side in front of us. No one was on the opposite side 200 yard away. Then we see a pickup come flying from the other way. He never slowed down even though we were clearly visible, as was the flood. He did a cannonball into the flood, and immediately lost control. We saw him come out of his window with his cowboy boots in his mouth as his truck started downstream. We saw him reach dry land right before his truck flipped and disappeared, never to be seen again.

Flash floods are not to be f***ed with.

quote:

We saw him come out of his window with his cowboy boots in his mouth

Nobody ever accused cowboys of being rocket scientists.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

CARS ENGULFED AS RAIN SETS RECORD FOR PHOENIX
By PAUL DAVENPORT and BOB CHRISTIE
— Sep. 8, 2014 9:51 PM EDT

PHOENIX (AP) — The remnants of Hurricane Norbert pushed into the desert Southwest and swamped Phoenix with record rainfall for a single day, turning freeways into small lakes and sending rescuers scrambling to get drivers out of inundated cars.

At least two people died in the flooding, including a woman who was swept away in her car by rushing water and became trapped against a bridge. In addition, a 76-year-old woman drowned in floodwaters.

Just goes to show ya...I checked both the newspapers and the internet news before writing and making my above post

So Darwin got two or even three instead of one. Was the one in the car thinking at all when she drove into a flooded wash? Even if she "needed" (wanted) to cross it for something she thought was very important, did she really think it was worth risking her life?

And it appears she must have driven into it...surely with it pouring rain she didn't just drive out into the middle of the water way, dry or wet, and sit there waiting to see if it would flood?

As the Fire Captain quoted above and I both said, People need to stay COMPLETELY away from "dry" washes in the desert when it starts to rain. The rain didn't kill her, her own actions did. The rain water flowed as it always does in the desert...downhill, rapidly, through all the gullies, arroyos, washes, ditches and other depressions which form watercourses.

I'm sorry she didn't use her head to protect her own life, but I don't blame that on the rain or the resulting flash flood.

BTW, In Calgary the Canadian Masters' Grand Prix show-jumping tournament (at Spruce Meadows) and other events have been cancelled for a few days due to the snow.

No doubt people will get killed there too, driving on icy roads without properly equipped vehicles. Up there folks have seen enough ice & snow to know the dangers. So if they accept the risk of losing their life they have knowingly assumed that risk. During snow storms people should stay completely off roads, highways, streets and avenues to the greatest extent physically possible. And if they do drive in snowstorms, especially in a place like Alberta where it often snows 8 or more months per year, they should certainly know enough to have both their selves and their vehicles prepared for it.

Once again, enlightened self interest is the key to surviving severe weather, no matter where one is.

And I find it a whole s--t l--d easier and nicer to live where there is occasional heavy rain during maybe 3-4 months of the year than to cope with 8 months (or more!) of snow and ice every year.

if you accidentally (!) drown your family can collect the life insurance. If you are suicidal, they cannot.
I hope this was not the case here, but one never knows...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
if you accidentally (!) drown your family can collect the life insurance. If you are suicidal, they cannot.
I hope this was not the case here, but one never knows...

Not really. Most policies that I am aware of usually have a two year exclusionary period for suicide. After that, dead is dead, the means don't matter unless it is double indemnity or similar.

However, there is not a "standard" for life insurance policies and there may well be some that exclude suicide as a payable event forever.

Gato,I have to agree on that. I once thought the same Rich. I contacted my agent + he told me that they would have to pay.

Even the professionals underestimate the danger of flash floods sometime.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news...-but-will-resume.ece

September 8, I was on the way to Wyoming, got within a few miles of the Muddy River bridge on I-15 before its approaches were washed out and I-15 was closed. Didn't see the point of going back to Las Vegas so rolled up in a ball and slept there. Next morning, up US 93 and over to Cedar City that way, quite the backup on either side of Panaca, NV. Good thing I started out before sunup...

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
if you accidentally (!) drown your family can collect the life insurance. If you are suicidal, they cannot.
I hope this was not the case here, but one never knows...

Not really. Most policies that I am aware of usually have a two year exclusionary period for suicide. After that, dead is dead, the means don't matter unless it is double indemnity or similar.

However, there is not a "standard" for life insurance policies and there may well be some that exclude suicide as a payable event forever.

Period of contestibility in most states is 2 years maximum. Colorado and maybe a couple others reduce that to one year. I'd say state law qualifies as a standard